I have a beautiful 12 yo QH mare. She's had 2 owners in her life, the breeder and me. She was broken in at 4 and had about 6 trail rides by the time I bought her at 5. She is lovely to work with in the pen, does join-Up and is well mannered. One problem: she spooks and shies. I've watch Kadina's videos and I've done all that with Lily with great success. Then one day, something new is around her and that's it! I can't take her out on the road as she's dangerous. She's had 2 trainers over the years who have taken her on the road countless times. She lived in a paddock near main roads with great traffic.
Anything unusual, she snorts, her eyes go wild and she just goes. I can't hold her on the ground and if this happens while ridding her she jumps sideways so suddenly that she threw me off once.
She can even spook at her saddle at times, or the blanket, or a bird flying by or someone new visiting!
On the other hand, I can teach her tricks and crack a whip next to her and she'll stay with me willingly.
It is impossible to get her used to every single thing that exists in this world.
I haven't ridden her now for months but still do some ground works in the pen. Put the saddle on etc.
I'm running out of ideas and I'm loosing confidence as time goes by.
Even when she was ridden everyday, she still had to put on a show, snort, looked all scared and it took at least 20 minutes to calm her down and be ready for only a trail ride!
She's never been mistreated and has never done much in her life. She is wonderful to ride on a trail as long as you are in the middle of nature. Anything that looks out of place to her and she'll spook. She can cross water, she moves forward, turns right and left, backs up and stops perfectly. She has a very soft mouth and responds to the slightest cue.
She is not safe to take anywhere near civilisation!!
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
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Horse Behavior and Training
Will a spooky horse be always spooky?
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Cass
The first thing that occurs to me is have her eyes checked by a vet. It sounds like she spooks because she does not clearly see the object she is looking at. If she is so upset that it takes 20 minutes to calm her it sounds more that just being spooky.
Good luck and I hope everything works out for you
Hey Cass
Im having the exact same problem with my 12yo QH gelding!He is totally fine cracking a whip beside him or waving flags around him, but will freak at his saddle and breastplate occasionally and if anything changes on a trail there is noooo way he is going in that direction. glad im not the only one. its been over 6months since ive ridden him and am also losing confidence and things to do with him.
Hopefully you find a solution and good luck
Hi all
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Dennis's suggestion of having the horse's eyes checked sounds like a good place to start in identifying what the trouble could be.
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Cass, if you do this it would be great if you could let us all know the outcome :-)
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Kind regards,
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Gen
Hi guys, thank you for your input! Much appreciated. I've got the vet coming on Saturday to do an injection to the young pony so I'll ask him to have a look.
It's funny you suggested this because a while ago now I thought that maybe there was something wrong with her vision because she tends to spook at anything white or light colour. At the time, I mentioned it to the vet I had and she didn't think it was her eyes but she did not really look into it either. She just said she had good eyesight because Lily could see all the movements around her.
Sammy, I've had her for 7 years now! Fair enough, she has improved 200% with age, but it's taking a very long time!!
And since I'm equine therapist, she gets all the muscular attention she needs, so I know she's not in any physical pain either. I've changed saddles many times over the years because she is a very broad QH and sensitive to any pain. I ride treeless these days and she likes it.
I will let you know what the vet says
Thanks heaps :)
hi cass,
I too am a therapist and find one of my own horses was very spooky when i first had him. it is of course important for the rider NOT to look straight at a hazard - it makes your eyes narrow and sends a signal to your bum / horse that this is a spook zone. As you have 2 spooky horses taking a very long time, i dare to suggest you might need help assessing if you are inflamming the situation unintentionally? (I apologise as i dont know you but am trying to help) I find by looking away from a hazard under saddle turns your pelvis / horse direction to lessen the importance of what is coming up without any who-har! i taught my 4 arabs to stand if spooked, and makes life easier to lead them in 2 at a time in high wind. ask yourself if you look forward to seeing new hazards on her - or think immediatly 'OH No'. if its the second one, you have already told her to be frightened :)
Hi Sue,
I totally agree with what you are saying. But at the moment, I haven't ridden her for months and she spooks in the paddock or in the pen, by herself. I take her out of the paddock on a lead to graze around the house. The horse float has been parked there for months now and she sees it from her paddock, which is only 3 metres away. Last week end, it was like she had never seen that float before! we were walking, grazing and then suddenly she realised the float was about 1 metre away. The snorting started, she became tense, head up, eyes wide open and ready to fly! I don't think I was even looking at the float when she started.
I talked to her and made her walk closer to it, passed it on the right and then left. I touched the float then she sniffed my hand which made her feel better.
I know that I have became apprehensive when riding her because I have no idea what will trigger an episode and that's why she hasn't been ridden for few months now.
The last trainer I had was a professional trainer who used Lyons methods. He was a horseman not afraid of anything. He took her out in traffic countless times. One day she was good, the next one she would spook at a letter box she passed many times or at a car driving by. That's the problem, you never know when and what will startle her.
At the stables, I have a wheelie bin that I move around all the times. I let Lily free in there so she gets used to everything. She's been fine with the bin until 2 days ago where she spooked when I moved the bin on the other side of the alley.
She doesn't like the wind that's for sure! she becomes all hypo!
So that's why I was wondering if no matter how much training and desensitisation she gets, it is in her nature and she will always spook :(
Maybe she is over sensitive to new smells then?
Hi Cass,
I`m afraid I have little to offer in the way of help but thank you for sharing this problem. I have a 7yr old welsh cob gelding who is the sweetest natured horse but has just the same problem. I too have done countless de sensitizing exercises with him & to be fair he`s fine to ride in the school which is very familiar to him but out hacking is a different story. He is fantastic in traffic, no fear at all but then will spook out of the blue at something ridiculous like a random log on the side of the road which makes him unsafe to hack out.
I will continue to follow your comments with interest. Best of luck! x
Hi Kicki, she is over sensitive to everything! Smell, touch etc.
The vet came in and said he thinks her eyesight is very good. It's hard to assess but she seems to see everything. Now whether things are distorted or the colours are wrong, we can't tell for sure.
I worked her in the pen yesterday and did a join up first, Everything was ok. Bought the saddle out and it was like she had never seen a saddle before! I had to tie her up to put it on. I can normally just do it while she is standing and she won't move. She was so tense and so springy!! This saddle is a treeless and the girth has 2 elastics on both sides so I know for a fact it doesn't hurt her. She is not lame and has no pain in her body. She just didn't want to have it on. I lunged her and it was on! It took nearly 1 hour for her to calm down and be able to walk. Once we got to that level, she was all sweetie pie! But there was no way I would have hopped on her!
I think I need to send her away to a good trainer - again! She plays me in a way but I'm sure she thought I'd leave her alone at the beginning. Wrong!
She was acting like a young filly who was saddled up for the first time.
I feel this is beyond my competence so I need to bring in a specialist. Being new to the area, I will have to do some research because I don't send my mare away to any body.
Sue, thank you for your support. I have 2 TB as well, and they are fantastic.
I don't know what it is with her, but I told her she was a nut case yesterday! LOL!
Hi Cass,
I think horse have a propensity to act a certain way,so some horses are more more spooky than ohters. She certainly sounds very spooky. I think you hit it on the head in your last post- she is playing you- she may think it is a game or soemthing.I agree sending her to a trainer is a good idea, but I woudl ask you to try one thing fisrt. Stop trying to fix her spookiness. Spend tiemwith her doing nothing in the feild, then bring her in for grooming,drop way back with your agenda. Do a join-up and stop don't gpto the saddle part. drop back she is telling you that you are asking to much of her at this point. so ask less and move incrementally in the smaalest steps.
Good luck, please let us know how it is goes. Stick with her on her terms until you can renegotiate.
And look at what you are bringing to the situation. It is not the only answer but it helps.
Good luck
richandi
Cass
Please don't take this wrong, but saying she is a nut case my not be too far fetched. Mental stress as well as mental disorder is out of the realm of possibilities. Sending your horse to a professional my be the best solution in that you will get a professional evaluation of your horses behavior.
I once shared a horse facility with a friend how had taken on a horse that was 5 years old and had never been away from it's mother. After 6 months of work with the horse he was just getting worse in his behavior. Our vet finally told him to turn the horse back to the owner and make a pasture pony out of him. The vet felt that the mental stress was too much and basically the horse had a nervous breakdown. I am not suggesting that is your horses problem but just pointing out that there is the mental aspect to consider, not just the physical training aspect.
Good luck and I hope it turns out well for you
See the "Spooky Kadina Chronicles"
She seems to like to work. I would suggest to work a lot with her in the roundpen, a lot of canter on a daily basis, using all kind of distraction (obstacles, plastic) until she is more quiet. When she is tired she will be less spooky.
Hi all and thank you for all your suggestions! It is great to have other people's views.
Richandi, I do what you suggest all the time. This is how she's learnt little tricks like counting with her foot and giving kisses. I spend on average, 2 to 3 hours a day with my horses, grooming them, taking them grazing around the property on a lead, playing with them, talking to them etc. I actually spend more time with them than with my partner, but that's another story! LOL!
Since I have 3 horses, I try to spread the time between each one. Lily totally enjoys these moments and learning stuff... except being ridden. But it doesn't stop her being spooky at little things without any notice.
The day after that awful session with her, I didn't saddle her. I did a join up and just played with her. She was calmer but still wild at heart! But she joined up. However, I also discovered that day she was in season and in love with the next door horse. Never the less, she shouldn't be acting like that.
Horse Addict, I've watched Kadina's videos and I can do all that with Lily. I can even cover her head with an empty bag of chaff, crack a stock whip next to her etc.
Rudi, I do all this with her and I can have 100% success with it, then bring a saddle and it all goes down the drain in a second.
Then she calms down after at least half an hour but by then, I am so in doubt as to whether I should ride her that I don't.
It is like when she does something she doesn't like or doesn't want to do, i.e. riding, her spookiness is heighten!
Anyone who sees her thinks she is a very calm horse. Last week, I took her out on a lead to let her graze around the house. We were close to the clothes line and it was a bit windy. The clothes line started spinning a little. Oh boy! She suddenly jolted sideways, snorting and pulling.. I went flying a metre away but didn't let the lunge go.
So imagine what it's like when you ride her and she spooks!
Dennis, I am starting to think this way too. I've had her for 7 years now.
She can't handle stress. I've just bought my 3rd horse and it seems that she has dropped to the 3rd place within their little herd. So I think her recent unpleasant behaviour could well be related to the stress of having another horse. Her and Thunder have been by themselves for 4 years now and she has shown some unbelievable aggression towards Junior (the new one) for about 10 days. Somehow, Junior has now become the boss of her. So this combined with her natural spookiness and her disgust of a saddle has triggered some strong emotions and behaviour.
My plan for this week-end is to spend some quality time with her to help her get herself together and do things she enjoys doing.
But I still think I'll need a professional to ride her.
Rudi, this mare never tires! LOL! Even unfit as she is at the momemt, and overweight, I reckon I'll get tired before she does! LOL!
"Rudi, this mare never tires! LOL! Even unfit as she is at the momemt, and overweight, I reckon I'll get tired before she does! LOL! "
In that case I have a different point of view to offer for consideration.
Could she be over-stimulated?
Dogs and horse that get too much stimulation, and not enough time to digest it - this is very individually, of course - will become stressed and over-active.
A bit like a kid with ADHD or some such disorder.
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For example, take a dog who will fetch a ball "forever" and just get more and more excited. The effect (in dogs at least)comes from the suprarenal gland being enlarged due to the constant producing of (stress) hormones. Rest and recuperation can amend the problem.
Hi Cass, your comments about her being in season gave me an idea. I used to groom for a mare who was very difficult to handle around the time of her season - she became very highly strung, overly sensitive & would freak at the silliest thing which at other times she would not take any notice of. Could a hormone imbalance be your mares problem? We used a Vit B supplement with good effect for the mare I mentioned. I don`t know if your vet can check her hormone levels or if you`ve tried any stress relieving supplements? It may be one route you`ve not explored yet - you seem to have thought of just about everything else, bless you! She`s a lucky horse to have such a caring owner x
Also Cass, it does sound as if she`s got it into her head to associate the saddle with a stressful situation. I know you said you lunge her but do you ever long rein? I find long reining much more effective `cos I can change direction easily & do other exercises from the ground in a very relaxed way or even go out for a walk around on the long reins if you`ve got somewhere relatively safe to do so?
It may be a different way of working her in a saddle without the stress of potentially riding her
I wonder, what would she/does she do if you take her into the round pen, work as normal until time to bring out the saddle. then bring out the saddle take it to the middle of the pen, put it on the ground and sit yourself down and hunker down for 15-20 min. Let her work it out on her terms. Saddle doesn't have to = time to freak out. After 15-20 min turn her back out to pasture. getting out of the pasture and into the round pen does not mean she has to get worked up. Just curious. Very interesting problem. My bet is that there will not be any one cure for the issue.
Could it possibly be a saddle fitting issue?
cass, keep working with her! Your horse kind of reminds me of myself. When I was a kid, I got spooked over little things like bees and mud wasp. I'm a little better now, I guess these things just take time.
Hi guys, did some work with Lily this week-end. Didn't bring the saddle in though but she was the most perfect horse ever! No spookiness at all. Plastic bags over her, whip cracking, took her around the house and the car.. cool as a cucumber! No snorting, no pulling or shying. Go figure!
Joy, at the present moment, no, it's not a saddle fitting problem. She has had saddle issues in the past and that's why now I've got treeless saddles. And since she hasn't been ridden for a year, she has never been ridden with the treeless yet so she doesn't even know the saddle. I know when she's not right, all her fears and apprehension come back multiplied. Ridding is one thing she will happily give a miss.
I've also spoke to 2 trainers. Both said similar things like because she is already 12, there might not have much hope for her. I think I'll keep working her until we both feel ok for a ride.
Sue, unfortunately I don't have the equipment or setup to do this, but I'll keep this in mind.
Robyn, it's a very good idea that I will practice.
Kicki, I think you've nailed it. I have to be careful what minerals she gets as some sends her to the edge. I've actually halved the dose since I've read your post and I've ordered some herbal treatment for her to try out.
Horse addict, yes, I'm going to do this. She has improved 200% since I've had her so she is a late boomer I guess :)
And I've got 2 other horses I can ride so time is not an issue :)
Cass it looks like you have about tried everything! Great to read all the many suggestions that have been given re your spooky QH. It is a hard one! I have a spooky QH too but not as bad as yours though I haven't put him to the test as much as you have. I still ride him but never know whether I am going survive the ride or not. He can be perfect for months and will then spook and really buck - I always come off but because he doesn't do it very often I still ride him but only in the riding school area where there is no traffic and very little to spook him. It doesn't seem to make much difference whether I ride him two or three times a week or once a month or so. He is always a bit better if I can take my kelpie dog with us. I have stopped jumping him as he tended to spook more when being jumped. But thanks everyone for the advice you have given Cass as it has helped me think about what to do with my fellow too. I have watched Monty with Kadina a few times and have tried that with him but although he settles at the time he then spooks the next day again. I think Dennis you are right - it is some kind of mental stress suffered in the past by these horses and they are unable to get rid of that baggage. I know mine was gelded late so perhaps that was a horrific experience for him.
Cass
One last suggestion. The issue of the saddle keeps getting attention as part of the problem. I don't know how comfortable you are in riding bareback but if you are then try riding bareback first in the round pen then if everything is OK try just out side the round pen and the arena if you have one. Should everything go well bareback it maybe your horse associates the pain of an ill fiting saddle even though the one your are using fits properly. Could be the horse is anticipating a problem then getting worked up about it
Cheers
Hi Cass,
I know a lot of people have commented to try and help, so I thought I would just add one tiny extra point. Feed - what are you feeding your horse? I know someone mentioned an hormone imbalance but I would suggest that if she is on any processed feed (ie pellets, cubes etc) that you should take her off these immediately. Start with a very basic approach to her feed with lots of low energy hay (grassy hay is good - if you feed lucerne chaff they don't need lucerne hay) and then for her mixed feed I would suggest consulting an equine herbalist to do her up a natural diet, and it can also include some additional herbs known for calming such as chamomile flowers. I know a lot of vets recommend processed feeds, but from personal experience and a lot of personal research, without a shadow of doubt I can say that horses go better on a natural diet (but don't try and guess what to feed - talk to a horse herbalist). I honestly think that this change will make a world of difference for your horse, and you!
Best of luck.
Ruth