Forum


Monty Roberts Equus Online University
Horse Training Video Instruction Program

Learn all about Equus • Dually Halter • Shy Boy Mustang • Jumping Horses
• Story of a Horse Whisperer • Riding Horsemanship • Dressage Horses • Willing Partners
• Horse Training • Round Pen Lessons • Performance Horses • Join-Up

← back

Horse Behavior and Training

Why are people afraid to speak out about abuse by trainers?

Please upload your photo

Hello there, I recently had my horse injured by a trainer who used a violent technique of his to try to teach my horse to not not rear as he backs out of a trailer. He told me he repeatedly forced him in and out of the trailer until he was tired of bashing his skull off the edge of the trailer. This resulted in a massive wound on his head and deep wounds all down his nose. I took notice of the rope burns on all his legs front and back. Why did he have rope burns on the front legs? Any ideas? He then told me it was hard to get a bridle on him after this. No kidding with a massive wound on his head I bet it was hard. Needless to say I pulled him immediately from training. I told friends about this and many people found out about what happened in our horse community I was not quiet about what happened. I was then told by several other people that their horses were abused by this trainer some with spur marks on their sides,he trimmed one horses feet to short etc..long story short I was told that no one reported the abuse because of fear of being sued for slander or defamation. How can that happen if your telling the truth though? I really would have liked to have known! As this trainer was reccomended to me. And most confusing how can a trainer so effectively be the Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde trainer with good reviews and no bad ones? I feel very alone in my situation for speaking up for my horse as no one else in our horse community came forward. Plus the intimidating phone calls from him telling me to desist with my complaint to authourities. Has anyone else has experience with situations like this?

Kleinne - Utah, U.S.A.
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed

Thankfully, I have not had this experience but it's about time someone speaks out against these abusive people. I hope you took pictures of the wounds on your horse for proof in case you need them. Thank you for standing up against violence against these beautiful animals. Don't allow anyone to intimidate you and keep you quiet. Intimidation is how this trainer controls not only horses but their owners. Stop him!If you don't who will?
Good work,
Kleinne

MaggieF, Melbourne - Australia
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed

Hi Jared&Tasch - I really feel for you over this one. Unlike Kleinne I can appreciate why your friends have not been prepared to press action. Unfortunately these cruel trainers persist because they are usually in a position of power in the horse community and they are also bullies. This usually means that their word is stronger than yours in the horse community they belong too. So if you try to speak out against them you are quickly hushed up, lose friends and are ostracised by other riders - this is the least of your worries. It takes a lot of guts to stand up against these trainers and at the extreme it can be dangerous too for your own safety, your families safety and the safety of your own animals. If he is already bullying you on the phone then he will know where the report has come from if you report him so it is a hard one and this is the reason why these trainers get away with it. I had a similar and awful experience myself years ago but I didn't have the guts to report the situation. Even now I am reluctant to say too much about it on this forum given the reputation in the horsey world of the person involved and he was a friend. Needless to say I saw the extreme of cruelty to young horses that were being "broken" and it remains with me. Abhorred by what I witnessed but too chicken to do anything about it - not even now. Any time I have tried to say anything I get an incredibly bad response even from fellow riders who I regard as friends. This person has such a high standing in our horsey world that he is put on a pedestal and so admired - deservedly so in most respects as he is a great horseman and rider.

Jared&Tasch
Please upload your photo

That makes complete sense to me I can understand that, I did not look at the situation from that point view pertaining to the others who told me annonymously after the fact of their experience with this trainer that they may be part of the grander world of horsemanship in our community. It certainly makes much more sense to me that they are worried about being shunned, considering I do not take part in such events or gatherings. I see now why this continues.

Horse addict (From the good old USA)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed

Jared&Tasch, I'm so sorry that this happened! I'm not a horse owner yet, but I am a pet owner, and if anyone would do something like that to one of my baby pets, I'd be a very furious mama bear! I'd be careful who works with your horse from now on. Try to do careful research on the people that you hire to train your horse.

vicci - UK (North Wales)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed

Hi Jared and Tasch, what a dreadful thing to have happened to you. I have spoken before about the 'culture' of the horse world and its acceptance of violence and I continue to be shocked by it, as we should be. Unfortunately, because it is so rampant we can get desensitised to it and doubt ourselves when its "sort of" not right. However, the situation you describe is blatant cruelty as defined in legislation (Animal welfare Act in UK - not sure where in the wrold you are though but I guess theres similar legisaltion). We HAVE to get better at standing up and shouting about this. Maggie - I truly understand your point of view but you make a comment at the end that is a trap we all fall into "...deservedly so in most respects as he is a great horseman and rider". No he is not. By your own description he is cruel and you are afraid of him and the world he inhabits. Please don't think I'm being unkind Maggie, I have great respect for your opinions, I am just citing yours as an example of how we argue with our own feelings (beleive me I've done it many times!). It is vital that we speak out truthfully and factually as oftentimes we say things like "Oh I don't like him, he's a mean trainer" - we need to be more specific and ask these trainers to justify their actions and explain their thinking. That is what a court will do if a prosecution is brought to bear for their cruelty. I'm sorry, I'm aware I'm beginnning to rant hahaha (breathe Vicci!). Jared and Tasch - your trainer has caused unnecessary cruelty, pain, and suffering to your horse. If anyone did this to our dogs or children we would not think twice about reporting it. Why do we think twice when it is our horses?

pmpleau
Hello!

I have been a farrier for 32 years and have seen or hear it all, I'm sure. You are doing the right thing, and please keep it up. By that, I mean keep spreading the word about this guys abuse to as many horse people as will listen including "Animal Rights Groups" and the SPCA. I live in Canada, and doubtless the laws (slander) certainly differ between our two countries, but my lawyer, (whom I shoe for)tells me that it is only slanderous if you are either, lying or embellishing for effect without clarifying that. Or that you are telling people about his behavior for no other reason than to cause him unwarranted, unqualified or unjustified harm financially or psychologically. In point of fact, you are simply pointing out the obvious in order to protect other animals from experiencing the same cruelty at his hands. Good for you, it is too bad that so many people are afraid to speak out for these wonderful sensitive creatures that cannot do so for themselves.

Cheers,
Paul

emlaw
Please upload your photo

This is a very sad and all too common situation - this man is a bully, no more or less. I would photograph the injuries caused by him during the so-called training and if he threatens you again tell him you will respond by taking your complaint further and that you have evidence. He has abused an animal which was placed in his care and people need to know about it - even if you save one other horse from being put through the same pain and violence it will be worth it. People like this are NOT horsemen, they are bullies masquerading as experts.

Debbie Roberts Loucks, USA
Hello! 2014 Cyberhunt winner 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed 650 lessons completed

Monty wrote this in his archives on 06/20/07: How can I get people to change their traditional ways with horses?

Monty’s Answer: Go where there is fertile ground. Leopards are not anxious to change their spots.

You shouldn’t say, “I’m going to make people change.”
You can’t do it. You have to figure out a way to demonstrate Join-Up’s effectiveness or pick a way to pass it on to the next generation. If you were going to influence anybody, it would be the young people.

The young people tend to be influenced by traditional horsemen because trainers often speak against you. It’s a long process. Who knows better than I that it’s impossible to go upriver head on? You’ve got to move on angles and go to eddies and rest for a while and then go again. It’s not an easy proposition.

Critics will see that the world is changing and they will see value in better horsemanship. It’s going to happen. It IS happening!

Debbie Roberts Loucks, USA
Hello! 2014 Cyberhunt winner 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed 650 lessons completed

Monty wrote this in his archives on 11/21/07: Your passion for using non-violent techniques dates back to your childhood. How many times these days do you see those harsh techniques used on horses?

Monty’s Answer: I see far too much violence even today, but it is true that the world of training horses is changing, and I would like to think that I have helped play a role in this effort. One should remember that the whip is still the number-one selling piece of equipment in the ride shops of the world. I am pleased with the changes I have seen, and I hope that this trend continues. There is a good reason I have on the cover of my textbook The Definitive Guide to Violence-Free Training.

MaggieF, Melbourne - Australia
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed

Thanks Local you make so much sense. Certainly there is no way I could speak out against the person that I regard as a traditional, cruel breaker. He is too well known and he is a top rider. If court action was taken I am sure I wouold be the loser and I wouldn't have the stamina for that anyway. I think Monty apreciates the difficulty of the situation. Influencing young people is the way to go and I have influenced many already and will endeavour to continue to do so. I am continually been told that I am too soft on my horses by riding instructors but I simply ignore them.

Debbie Roberts Loucks, USA
Hello! 2014 Cyberhunt winner 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed 650 lessons completed

Thank you for your vision Maggie. Someday many will apologize to the horse for centuries of misunderstanding.

Jared&Tasch
Please upload your photo

Thank you for all the comments I appreciate it so much. I knew that asking for answers here would be the right thing to do to help define this situation for me. I did report the trainer to the authorities and in doing so two other horse owners also went to the authorities with similar horse cruelty complaints at this trainers hands. All aspects of the comments posted here I took into consideration and most of what was written came true, I was publicly humiliated in front of my family, have lost friends over this and I was not served with a court summons pertaining to "slander". What I have learned through this is that it is important to report people who abuse horses, why, because its a crime in our society. What is the point of having laws concerning animal cruelty if the people who commit these crimes get away with it. Yes these people have social status in the horse communities and hide behind people who admire their horsemanship. They also use intimidation to divert any consequences they have coming their way. I decided I do not care if I lose friends over this and am shunned at horse events I do not want people who assist someone to get away with being cruel to a horse or any animal in my life. The darker side of my situation is this the police are very interested in knowing about people who are cruel to animals because they usually treat people the same way. It usually leads to domestic violence. There is always more to the story when it comes to these situations.

Kleinne - Utah, U.S.A.
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed

I admire your courage in coming forward and reporting this abuse. It's unfortunate that you have had to suffer personal humiliation over this but it's important to stand up for what you believe in, even if you stand alone. Thank you for putting your horse before yourself and at great personal cost, it's a rare quality.
Good luck in the future,
Kleinne

pmpleau
Hello!

Hey Jared and Tasch;

Fantastic, and good for you. I know from first hand personal experience what it takes to do what you did and to risk the backlash of friends, (so called). One quickly finds out so very much about the inner heart and moral fiber of themselves as well as those who purport to "be right behind you". As well, you quickly find out who your friends truly are. I endured 5 years in the Court System and at a cost of over $350,000.00 because I chose to stand up for my beliefs and report severe wrongdoing. I won, in the end, but oh my, the cost..... I was and am left with a terribly depleted bank account, but an overflowing sense of "self worth".....kudos to you and yours. Yous deserve to be very proud.... : )
Warmest Regards,

Paul

vicci - UK (North Wales)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed

Hi Jared and Tasch

Can you hear me applauding you?!!! I am so impressed with what you have done; many many congratulations. Your courage and ethical stance is an inspiration. You are right about the cruely to animals being one of the indicators of a propensity towards cruelty to humans; particularly when it starts in childhood. We spend too much time talking about educating new people until the old style has died out. It HAS to be a two pronged approach - educate the new methods but also stand up against cruelty and injustice.

MaggieF, Melbourne - Australia
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed

I admire you for taking this stand Jared and Tasch. You are an inspiration to us all.

Vio Berlin
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed

Hi Jared and Tasch, I have been studying in the UNI but did not read the forum for a long time. So your post was the first I have read since a longer time. That you reported that so called Trainer is in deed a brave action and the only right thing to do. I also have my experiences with beeing a widness of terrible harsh treatment of a horse and all I did was to ask the trainer if she thinks that she is doing the right thing - after she abused the horse and tied it up head high in the box - her answer was "...yes well... if you have a better idea?" This mare gave up on herself, she shut off and was ready to die. I swore that day that I will watch that never again but stop these kind of people immediately and report them if I have to. The next situation came when I went to see Monty in Marbach. It was before the show in the parking place when I saw a young man kicking his little young QH into the belly because he refused to load. I went over and sayid calmly that I would call the police if he would go on kicking his horse. I asked him friendly to give his horse time to load and congratulate him for the smallest try. Concratulate ? Stroke his horse ? this man didn't understand what I was talking about. He gave me the leading rope and said: Ok, so you try. I did what Monty would have done and worked - with a regular halter - calmly and with consistence and I beleived in me. I finally loaded him and beleive me, I couldn't hold back my tears of relief because I knew that now he was save. I kindly asked the man not to hit his horse but try any other way. He came back from his car with his little son in his arm... yes, hopefully he treats him better... I felt so proud that I stood tall for this horse who's name I later learned was "Happy" !! I do congratulate you for your action because you really where worried of so many disadvantages if you report this man and did it altough. Beleive me, there are many people who appreciate your action without telling you and - hey - I bet most of your "friends" who turned away from you will be back soon :-) if not you will find better ones! Take care and lots of luck, Viola

vicci - UK (North Wales)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed

I saw this quote today and I thought what a good reminder for us all.

"Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the wellbeing of a person or an animal is at stake. Society's punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way". Martin Luther King