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Horse Behavior and Training

Trust is a two way street.

By:
JoHewittVINTA
Date:
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Hi. I was lucky enough to be at Myerscough College, with Monty, last Saturday. I had the opportunity to share with him, the experience I had this summer & when I showed him the photos he said you have to share your story, you absolutely must share this. So, I apologise as this will be a long post but, it will be worth the effort of the read.
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Those of you who follow this forum will know that I've got 4 ponies, Max now 13, Humphrey now 8 who sired Kirk born 03/2013 & Holy Moley born 05/2014. Bella, the foals mother, was sadly lost to us when Moley was 6 months old - fractured knee that she endured for 11 months hence the filly name.
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Stan helped me out in 2015 - Humphrey was unbroken, late gelded & I took exception to his chosen ltrainers treatment to get him under saddle - Robinsons catalogue, Kincade lunging aid put on first bit. Humphrey is a very gentle, very easy going cob & this trainer wreaked him! I visited after week, was furious & went home, got the trailer & rescued him for the second time. We're still working on his problems but we'll get there!
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Stan didn't ride so Humphrey learned to carry the human but not to be guided. My ponies live out 24/7, 365 so come winter, without rugs, over winter he had zero practice. He went lame, ligament injury to his pastern so by June, no one had sat on him for about 7 months. I was poo picking & Humphrey was lying down. I went over to him - he's confident for me to approach him so I rubbed his neck loads. Then it occurred to me that lying down, extra weight couldn't adversely affect his sore leg so here the tale begins. Now sitting on a half trained, unrestrained equine is nor a good idea so I urge you not to read this post, run out to your pasture & try to copy what I did. Be careful, be incremental & most of all, be safe. But Humphrey is happy for me to be with him when he lies down - we've done that many times. So, I upped the anti & put a foot over his back, rubbing my heel on his ribs. He stayed calm & relaxed so I straddled him & was good with that. I got off, left him for about a minute & came back. Straddled him again & then sat on, lifting my feet off the ground. All good, bless him. His son, Kirk, had been watching & came over. I walked away for about a minute & when I came back, Kirk was lying down near Humphrey. I sat on Humphrey a third time, thinking how came I up the antic? I jiggled around on his back ( bad disco dancing, seated ) zero reaction. Made big fuss of him & got off.
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Kirk looked me straight in the eye. I thought, this cannot be real but that looks like an invitation. So, I went over to Kirk, the completely untrained 3 year old, put my foot over his back & rubbed his ribs with my heel. To keep this short, suffice to say Kirk allowed me on his back, 3 times but we skipped the disco dancing! Ten days later Holy Moley went out of her way to walk to me, lie down & let me straddle her 3 times - given she was only 25 months old I kept the majority of my weight on my feet - she doesn't need 70+ kilos just yet.
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I was on such a high. How fantastic to have this much trust from 3 ponies. Absolutely fabulous! In September the riding club held their annual show. I've been a committee member for +35 years so I was in my element telling this story of my ponies success until someone said 'Well, according to Jo you just go up & sit on them'. I was furious! They didn't believe me! I hate liars! I went home & the ponies came to greet me. I said 'Humphrey, I'm so sorry - they didn't believe how wonderful you all are.'
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The next morning I'm poo picking having moved the electric fence back because they've had 2 days of minimal attention due to setting up for & running of the annual show. After about an hour, Humphrey walked all the way over to me & lay down. Out came my phone. I set it for pics & went up to him. I rubbed his neck & said you know this clicks - is that ok. Obviously, he just ignored that - he doesn't speak Scots! Whoopee -.we have proof I took a pic of him lying down & another of my leg over his shoulder. Some 30 minutes later, Kirk left the fresh grazing, walked all the way up the electric fence to the gap & all the way back down the field to reach me & lay down. Out came the phone & I took a pic of him lying down. Then I took a pic of my leg over his shoulder.. Fantastic, we now have more proof. The next committee meeting is in a couple of weeks. But just 5 days later, Holy Moley - who has watched all this going on, comes over to find me, lies down and when I showed these pics to Monty, I said this is the game changer. There she is lying down, there we are in closer proximity, there is my foot on her ribs - and now the game changer. The geldings were so relaxed a sceptic could say they were sedated but the next pic is Holy Moley from the withers up, little red ears (she's chestnut) pricked & alert & calm & relaxed. Proving that she was a willing partner in this endure. This is the point that Monty said ' you have to share this story, you absolutely have to'. Well I have & I thank you for your indulgence as its a very long post. PLEASE, try this but be aware, you need to have complete trust in place before this is possible. My home grown babies are 'in your face' & not everyone's cup of tea but they are wonderful! Cheers. Jo.

bahila73
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Good for you Jo.  I believe, i believe, because it happens frequently to me here at Skyhaven with these Arabians.  When they truly invite you in to be up- close and personal, i regard it as a blessing while rewarding them with lots of scratches and strokes.    This speaks volumes for the over-all trust that is going on at your farm.  Congratulations for attaining that level of acceptance from your charges.  Monty was absolutely right with asking you to share your story.
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.Whenever a horse will allow a human to approach and be with them while they are lying down is absolute trust on their part.  But your horses, Jo, have seemingly taken it to another level with the other horses wanting to join the LAYING DOWN PARTY WHILE THE HUMAN CRAWLS ALL OVER THEM.  WOW, WOW.... You have got something on that is pretty special.
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Thank you so much for that story.
All my best   Bud
Miriam (Holland&Germany)
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Hi Jo,
What a touching story! 
The deep trust and your "reading" the ponies is so wonderful.
It's always been a great pleasure to read your contributions to this forum, so a little longer is a little better!
Now of course we're curious how the process goes on, so please keep us posted on your small herd!
Miriam

vicci - UK (North Wales)
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Wonderful JO, glad you had the chance to share this with Monty to!
Mel - Ramsgate UK
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Wonderful Jo, but remember never take the photos to show others proof, always take the photos for your proud moments of bonding with your horses to share with those who love you all!  Others will always criticise what they can't achieve!! 
Mel
x
Marija
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed
This is an amazing story of trust and sharing that I have no trouble believing :)
It must be wonderful for you to have these precious moments with your ponies and I wish you all the best in your future work with them.
JoHewittVINTA
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Hi. I have a question. I don't believe it was coincidence that I came home from the annual show furious with the doubters & the next time the ponies had the opportunity, they did this for me. Is it possible that they are so tuned in to us that they recognise & identify our emotions so accurately as to have been able to see I was REALLY upset, but not with them & to associate that directly with the time I was OVERWHELMING HAPPY with them, 3 months before? Because, if that is true then their intelligence & their mental agility would have to be far greater than currently believed. Montys last competition on Johnny Tivio, when Monty had the best seat in the house to watch his horse perform & win with an almost unprecedented score. The grieving pony family who spent well over 90 minutes with Bellas body when Max, not related, spent less than 2 minutes to say goodbye. My old horse, Apollo, still missed 11 years after his death, who allowed me to cuddle up to his clipped belly on that winters night. I'd got stuck in the snow, couldn't get home so went back to the stables, very wet & cold. Apollo stayed lying down & very still for over 4 hours before he reach over to me with his head & gently nudging me away from his feet so he could stand up. I'm sure many of you will have your own incidents when your horse has shown above & beyond understanding & intelligence. I think Monty is right - we're just starting to scratch the surface & we all need to try harder. I'd appreciate your thoughts on this. Cheers. Jo.
bahila73
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One of the most important items that our horses ask of us is AUTHENTICITY, because as we approach, our horses they read us like a book.  Before we  are even in their immediate area they seem to know our story for the day.  Humans possess an aura of energy that is directly tied to our emotions and that energy swirls around us constantly.[quantum physics]   Being an animal of prey,  their sensing and and awareness skills are honed beyond measure.  Yet, was is that intangible that enables them to allow humans to tread inside their given areas of safety?
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.OK LADIES, I have opened this discussion up.  Now it`s your turn.
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Blessings
Bud

Miriam (Holland&Germany)
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Hi Bud and all,

Did you read "Zen Mind Zen Horse" by Allan J.Hamilton? He's a brainsurgeon and horsetrainer, he explains which brain hemisphere is responsible for what activity.
In horsetraining we should use our right hemisphere, that is responsible for all that is not rational. This way the horse can read our intensions and feel safe. Just this week there's a new book by the same author "Lead With Your Heart", haven't had a chance to see it yet, but could be promising too. The first book was very helpful, there's a DVD called "Playing with Magic" by Wayne Ewing based on Hamilton's first book, very touching!
Thanks for starting this discussion,
Miriam 

vicci - UK (North Wales)
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Such an interesting subject. I agree that we have not even begun to understand the depths of communication that are possible with animals and it is human arrogance and belief in its own superiority that tends to get in the way! The breakthroughs that are being made in terms of understanding animal intelligence (dogs are being particularly heavily studies at the moment and it is mind blowing!) are happening all the time. Let's face it, they do a better job of understanding us than we do of them most of the time!
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I agree with Bud that being 'centred' and in tune with ourselves and being authentic is the only way to be. This applies to life in general but this is much much harder than it sounds; the difference being that humans have egos, animals do not (or to a much much lesser extent if you consider than primates might etc.). Further, we are emotionally and environmentally very very complex and being 'authentic' is a complex and often painful journey. 
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I must add a note of caution and 'healthy skepticism' to this discussion for the sake of balance. At this point I must say, these points are not aimed at you Jo, I am not suggesting for one minute you are doing any of this; I am responding to Bud's comment about a wider discussion.

We must take special care not to

  1. Anthropomorphise animals 
  2. Attribute behaviours/emotions to fit what we want to believe/already believe; there are often many possible explanations for behaviours but we envitably pick the one that makes us feel good
  3. Ignore what does not fit our frame of reference
  4. Switch off our critical thinking
  5. Subscribe to 'fluffy' untested theories that are based on tradition/widely held practices and beliefs no matter how strongly they are held
  6. Assume that all 'new' knowledge is good and 'old knowledge' is bad

So, end of my thoughts for now..... :-)

Marija
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed
Echoing Vicci's words, this is a very interesting subject indeed. And Bud's thoughts about authenticity resonates deeply with me as that was - in hindsight - the foremost problem between me and my previous Spanish horse. We were completely out of tune because I dealt with him in a way that wasn't in line with my authentic self so that whole experience was a hard lesson in humility. And what was so negative at the time has since turned into positivity which has resulted in a great experience the young horse I had for a trial period and I'm also off to a good start with my 10-year old. Like some horses, we humans also sometimes have to un-learn something in order to re-learn it better. And they can be our best teachers.
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I have also noticed that if we visualize one step ahead when working - imagining the horse executing that particular exercise almost to perfection - then it's almost as if it picks up on that which makes work more fun and light for everyone.
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Working with horses (and any other animal) is a neverending learning process as much about them as about ourselves. Mixing traditional knowledge with new knowledge, adapting our own behavior and thoughts in order to have the best relationships possible. And always keep in mind that they only react to what we show/teach them, that they're not capable of analyzing things the way we do nor of guessing ahead of us what we want.
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To sum up, I'd say that the most important thing a horse can teach us is to stay simple and trust our emotions. If they react in a way that feels positive to us, it is.
JoHewittVINTA
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Hi. I don't want to distract you all from the bigger debate but I have to update on my little herd. I was right, 13 year old Max is definitely not impressed! He was lying down the other day & so I approached him. He was happy to be in my close company but gave me a really grumpy look when I put my foot over his back & used my heel to scratch his ribs - so I took my foot away. I moved to sit on his hip & was unceremoniously pushed away when he got up & walked off! He looked over his shoulder at me as if to say, no saddle, no bridle - I'm not prepared to take responsibility for you without the right equipment. So, I definitely do not have some magic touch to make this work, well not with Max anyway. Today, Kirk & Moley laid down along side each other with barely room for me to walk between them. I went over & fussed them both. It's been raining a lot. The ground is waterlogged, they are wet & it's unlikely we'll make much progress now until spring. They both looked very relaxed & happy - proving I haven't given them cause to worry which is great. Plenty to work with in future. When I went to the gate, to leave the field, they got up & came to me as they very often do. Acceptance like this is really gratifying. We've had our moments this summer. I tried long lining Kirk - wouldn't hardly move. Used plastic bags, even though I didn't think it would work as he's really good with stuff up to a 1/4 ton sack. Oh boy, when I shook the bags from side to side at his hock level he stood on end & took off to find his sister at high speed. Holy Moley, on the other hand, stood unrestrained whilst I put on the Dually, surcingle & long lines. As soon as I clicked my tongue off she went full blast - 30ft long lines completely airborne behind her! It took a little time & some laps of the section of the field ( no roundpen unfortunately ) but she stood totally unrestrained to get all the tack off again. I'm confident we will achieve my goal of a saunter along the beach next year. Joyce has 4 year old Darcy who would love to do that with either Kirk or Humphrey. Future looking really good. Cheers, Jo.
JoHewittVINTA
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Hi. I'm so proud! It's November so time for my ponies to move to their winter fields about 1.5 miles away. Not a huge journey but, whilst it's possible to walk it & we have in the past, not ideal as there's quite a busy road for about a mile & no pathway. I brought the trailer into the field, opened the front & rear ramps & let Kirk & Holy Moley into the section where the trailer was. Joyce was helping me - always easier with help. The two of them took time to investigate the rear ramp, pawing & sniffing. Then they walked through several times & in both directions. The trailer was in about 3/4 of an acre so plenty of space- they had lots of options. Once they had settled we closed the breast bar & bum bar on Kirk & he got a mint. He's never been a problem with loading or traveling. Holy Moley quickly joined him & also got a mint whilst we closed her bars too. It's a full sized trailer. Joyce & I went to the back & quietly closed the ramp. All of a sudden there was a great deal of clattering & Holy Moley was under the breast bar & off the front ramp. She wasn't injured or even frightened. Kirk tried to do the same but he's a bit bigger so pushed a couple of times & gave up. Joyce opened the back ramp & Holy Moley came straight to it, wanting into Kirks side. I went in at the front fussed Kirk, giving Holy Moley time to assess the situation. She stayed put so after about a minute I ducked under her breast bar, offered her a mint & retreated as she followed me into her place. Both youngsters got mints whilst Joyce closed up the back & then handed me the halters. I put them on the ponies, tied them up & we set off to the winter fields. From the road the winter fields are 150 yards up a track. The youngsters traveled really nicely, off loaded calmly & walked quietly but with great anticipation up the track. We let them loose, tied the gate & went back for Humphrey & Max. Put the trailer in the field, let the ponies through & let them sniff it all out. Humphrey had several visits to the vets this year for nerve blocking to find out why he was lame. Leg injections must hurt -  coz he didn't like them at all. He didn't want to go in the trailer but I put the long line round his neck & he came straight on. Once in I put his halter on & tied him up. Max loaded immediately & conventionally, haltered & lead. When they off loaded, again very sweetly, Humphrey walked up the track sniffing the ground - I'm guessing he was tracking the others so I left the line nice & loose. Kirk was at the gate & greeted us with a real bellow of a whinny. Once they were all in the field & Max had his grazing muzzle on they celebrated. Max lead them off & Joyce was impressed with the speed they all showed. Humphrey looks like a plod but in reality he's a bit of a racehorse. All four loaded without pressure, albeit Humphrey needed a little bit of help. Joyce has a youngster, Darcy, who has never left home. We're going to introduce her to the trailer & Joyce wants her to emulate my ponies confidence. Like I said - so, so proud. Trust is fantastic. Cheers, Jo.

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