I'm no expert but it sounds to me like your horse is 'weak' in her right eye.
Shilo too has this, but only a little.
I make very sure to train his right side a little more than his left as he is weak in his right eye.
When I saddle him I do it from both sides ( at different times)
Shilo doesn't like to have me on his right side, so therefore I do it more to train his eye.
Also mounting from both sides.
Shilo hates me to brush him on the right side..but of course I do it more and more.

That's interesting...what makes you think he is weak in the right eye Dionne? Horses are not bilateral like dogs/humans i.e. they do not "see" at the same time. Only about 20% of what they learn on one side transfers to the other side and as humans are creatures of habit we tend to work on the left side more which means they are more spooky about things on the other side. This doesn't mean they have a 'weak eye' (which is why I am asking as it may be that you have had the eye looked at by a vet or other reason..?) it means that side is "under trained" so doing more on the under trained side makes sense (as you are doing)
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Lucie - that link is showing server error - has anyone else managed to look at it? I don't use FB so it might be just me that can't access it. There is so much to think about in your post that I need a bit of time to process it :-) Why do you carry a stick? What do you see as its purpose. I'm not criticising, just asking, as it's important that we know WHY we do something.
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Without seeing the video it's hard to know what is going on but if she is tripping because her head is high that suggests she is either nervous/spooky (hence head high) or she is being held up too tight. You mentioned she is leaning on the bit and you need to lighten your hands....are these connected do you think? I wonder if you become anxious and anticipate the "problem side". I don't know, I'm just throwing some thoughts out for us to consider.
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You said you've been riding her for two weeks, is this the first time she's been ridden? If so it may be you are expecting a lot of her.... or do you mean it's been happening for 2 weeks.

Sorry, to clarify as my sentence doesn't make sense lol. Of course they see at the same time, what I meant was because the horses eyes are on the side they only see whatever it is won that side with that one eye, not with both eyes as humans do.

I'll upload the video to youtube, that seems to be easier.
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Dionne: I thought about that, I do everything (except walk that's true)on both sides too for just that reason.
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Vicci, feel free to be blunt, I have no ego about my abilities, I want to learn to be the best I can be, so no worries there ;)
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I use the stick in 3 cases : 1) to be a visual barrier, she doesn't like touching it so i point it to her haunches if a turn is hard so that they don't drift out/drag behind; 2) as a distraction when I know something is going to be hard so that she focuses on that thing by her side rather than on the hard thing; 3) In the case of this video i use it more to add to my cues. I first do legs alone, then legs & voice, then legs, voice and clucking and if that still doesn't work i do all of that plus the stick that i point to her hind legs (you'll see that if you can watch the video). It's frayed at the end and it catches the light so when i point it up I guess she sees a big shiny form where she doesn't want that.
It's not very efficient to move her forward to be honest because she knows i'll never hit her with it so she's not the least bit afraid of it, but sometimes if i have really great timing it does the trick. I would replace it with a giddy up rope but i haven't found material to make a good one yet.
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The trip : I pushed her forward, she was really reluctant to go, it was a very jerky movement. You need to see it, I can't really explain that well.
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The head : I don't know if it's only related to how I hold my reins because even when she's not nervous she keeps it pretty high but without the mouvement you'll see in the video. I'm used to riding from the saddle using practically no hands and she has the shortest neck i've ever ridden so I do have a hard time finding my place. But I know that's a factor too for sure.
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I started riding her about 4/5 weeks ago but my friend led her from the ground at first. We gradually transferred controls to me in the saddle and I have been riding without my friend leading from the ground for 2 weeks. Is that clearer ?
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And just so there's no misunderstanding, I do not expect her to do anything perfect, I actually expected her to have a harder time doing the stuff she already does to be honest.
The point of my topic is that there's such a difference between the first 2 passes and the 2 after in her attitude that i'd like to know what we need to come back to have her feel relaxed going both ways. She's always uncomfortable on that side I just had never actually seen the difference until i filmed it.
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I'll post the link to the video when it's finished uploading, it's taking forever :)

from what you have said it is heard to know what before riding her ground work you did. Does she travel freely in both directions? Does she long line in both directions in walk trot and canter? if you can see any similarities without a rider then you have work to do in the ground work and make moving forward freely and relaxed easy for her. Also are there any physical issues - teeth, back, muscle tension? this might make her less relaxed with tack and rider on

If all of the above is no relevant and if this is her initial ridden work being ridden without a ground person for back up - i would suggest bringing in another horse to allow her to follow and take away any worry about where she might be asked to go. you can follow this horse and introduces stronger leg cues when needed but her forward motion might be more active. no horse at this beginning stages of bring ridden can ride a perfect circle and work perfectly. they are learning to use their own feet with weight on their back and find a balance and not get worried about what is around them.
make it more fun for her- have no direct pattern you need to ride in an arena and do some zig zag movements across the area and half circle one way and turn the other way. it will help with her feet and listening to you . when she gives you a nice movement or relaxes just stop and give her a rub and reward her for it.

i think another horse will help you with freeing her up as long as you have no physical issues going on.

https://youtu.be/4_N3Gqbrrjg
Quality isn't great but it does the trick if you can't watch on FB.
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Maya, from the medical point of view, I had her checked before i started riding, there was no problem. Her teeth weren't checked though so i'll make an appointment.
On hand she is exactly the same as ridden, except she's more relaxed ridden actually. Before riding I made sure she followed everywhere at a walk & trot, stopped and turned. All the stuff centered on leading with the dually and spookiness (although there is some work still to do there).
On the longlines, she doesn't go when i'm on her right. She wouldn't go forward at all before I started riding (someone here suggested I tried riding to help with that actually). She wouldn't move at all when I wasn't by her nose, now she goes generously on one side and basically not at all on the other, she turns fine then stops like she hit a wall.
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I do zig zags at a walk for now and it's easier for her, it's only when I ask her for a straight line that she freezees on her "bad" side. When we zig zag i'd say she is reluctant to turn to the left about 60% of the time.
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I have thought about asking a friend to ride with us, maybe that's the way to go, I'll try to have her with me in one of our next sessions.
One question about that, she is with another horse right now, whose owner never rides but has allowed me to ride, would that be any help to have my filly on the dually with me on the other horse or does mine need to be ridden when we do that ?

Hi Lucie

Have had a look at your video and sent a friends request. from looking at the video there is a communication problem between the two of you. I notice you're using your hands to make her turn and not your body or legs. She's fighting your hands. You also look too far forward in your seat and umbalanced, possible nervous of her reactions?? This will be putting more pressure onto her shoulders. Can you try and change your seat and align your neck over your pelvis, then breath as you connect your center with the center of her back and your saddle. keep your feet still except when you first ask her to walk on. Focus on relaxing in your seat and balance and you'll find this alone with make changes for you. For your turns, first use your head. The horse looks to the head first in Equus as part of it's communication, you should be able to turn your horse purely by turning your head looking over your shoulder then if needed using the inside leg to ask her to bend her bottom out. Practice this on the ground first to see if she is listening to your head directions. In hand walk a straight line with her on your right, to turn left look hard left first then start to turn, if listening she'll turn with you without any pressure on the lead rope. To turn right look hard right, if you have her in the sweet spot you should be able to look past her neck, then raise your left arm across her face as you start to turn right. Again she should turn without any pressure on the lead rope and not touch you at all. This is all Equus and how the horses communicate with each other. Then transfer this into the saddle, at first the turns will be wide as she listens to your head, then you can refine it with your leg aids. Don't keep asking her to move on with your legs, keep them still unless you are giving instruction else you make her numb to the leg.
Keep uploading the videos, they help also to help us see what's happening.
Mel
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I didn't realise i was using my legs so much, thanks.
I don't think I was nervous, just maybe off balance because I was pushing with my legs to go forward maybe ? I'll watch that and try to have a better position like you described.
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I worked like you suggested on hand this morning, she hesitates when I turn left, follows me when i'm about three/four steps from her. I've tried raising my right arm too, she pulls back, resists a bit the comes off pressure. For the turns to the right, I had to use my arm the first time, then just the head was enough.
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We'll keep working on hand and ridden tomorrow, this afternoon the weather is just too bad it wouldn't be comfortable for anyone :/

Yes, i mean undertrained on one side, but i wrote 'weak' eye.....sorry.(Danish/English translation fault)

Hi Lucie, I was unsuccessful in being able to download your video, so I might suggest that you go back to the dually halter until Maya is responding fluidly to what your asking of her from on the ground beside her. Mel gives some excellent advice to prepare a horse for a change in direction that bridges the gap from ground to saddle. That little bit instruction will take you to a new frontier and should be ritualistically habituated. Wow, that`s a mouthful................................................... Directional leadership with a horse is an art form. I would work on getting your horse as soft and supple as you can make her. Please do not think spending time on the ground is not progressing. I believe it is the key to training for the saddle work. Asking for help makes you authentic in your approach to horse training. HORSES LOVE AUTHENTICITY. Please keeps posted and be the best that you can be..Bud USA

Mel has given excellent observations and advice!
I would like to chime in here about being more careful of your turning. From just looking at the vid, I get the impression that your horse is A)too busy fighting with the bit that it looses the ability to listen to your directions, because B)your directions are shifting too fast. It looks like you are trying to go right before you have completed the left turn and then you start making minor corrections that I doubt she is ready for yet.
Let her "meander" a bit - her balance under rider isn't all that great yet!
Be clear and consistent with the turning aid (leading with your head as Mel says) and be sure she understands how to complete that task before you ask for another. Serpentines are a great exercise, but you need to start with very wide turns.
As for her trying to avoid the hedge; I'm thinking maybe you could try to keep her at a distance from it? Find her comfort zone and move in closer incrementally. I noticed there is a stool close by the hedge that she shies away from. Maybe move it out of harms way so she doesn't get entangled and one less thing to worry about?
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Btw. very pretty horse and a breathtaking landscape around you!

Hi, I am not an expert rider so will not presume to give the best advice, there are lots of people on here far better than I am to give it:-) I would just make two points and confirm two others.

1. This point actually is not a lot to do with it but it might be useful! Be careful of the video camera when filming, he had whites of eyes/fear response when passing close by. Cameras are like eyes :-)
2. The bit needs to be dropped down a little - it is too tight on the corners of them mouth i.e. the length between the top of the head and the bit itslef is too short - there is no slack at all here and the horses mouth looks pulled apart a little - it may help.
3. I agree with Kicki - less precision and more wandering around doing "passenger riding" for a little while may help
4. Mel is right about being a leaning to far forwards - while your rein is lovely and loose, as soon as you try to sit back up straight you are inevitably going to pull back on the reins.
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As I said, I am no riding expert so please only consider my points if it makes sense and I am more than happy for others to point out that I am wrong if they feel I am :-)

Lucie, you`re getting lots of good advice here and I still haven't been able to connect with your video. But from some of the commentary by you and my forum friends, I don`t think that you or your horse are happy with the riding results. I think sometimes in our passion to see the fruits of our many hours of training we go on a path that we are not ready to on. Maybe I am just reading too much into this, but I think you might back-track and help your horse to overcome the balking problems.................... When I start young horses under saddle in the round pen:#1 they are always in a dually halter. #2 They carry the bit, however,#3 there no reins attached to the bit. Also,#4 the bit is not carried until the third day of being backed. I have learned over the years not to touch the reins in the first week and a half unless something goes south in a hurry. I am just a passenger allowing them to control the unnatural weight on their back while they are at liberty to go anywhere they want to go while getting their sea legs under themselves. I use my seat and forward leaning to bring about the go forward cue with a very slight squeeze of my calf muscles; my head turning in keeping with whatever direction THEY wish to turn as a precursor cue, and leaning back when THEY come to a halt. My thinking, in this approach, is that I would like a conversation with the horse about responsibilities of our riding CONNECTION. I try and bring to the horse, that the whoa part is his job, while the go-forward is mine. What I am trying to orchestrate in this connection is freedom of movement and relaxation for both of us, while giving him something to think about. I believe that our horses should look forward to being with us and that the riding part is the icing on the cake. The direction cueing is done after the initial 7 to 8 rides and since it is in a round pen, I just simply pick-up the appropriate rein when the horse makes a decision as to the direction he wishes to go and quickly dropping it as the turn is executed. The same is done for the whoa [vocally] while sitting back as he approaches a barrier. I have always felt that this introduction to being backed, for a horse, gives that horse a voice in the decision making between the rider and himself. This seems to keep the horse interested as the training progresses. I think that we are all after the same thing [that moment of togetherness and the feeling of being able to fly over the ground and time ceases to be]. Anyway, take a look at your horse and see if you can read any happiness within him. Just hanging-out on his back is not a bad way to go at times. Relaxation is the key for both. `Hope that this helps you in some way Bud USA

Lucie, one more thing that I might add is that everything that described above is done at a walk until the horse is completely relaxed in every way. This includes the back-up exercises. This approach has never failed in producing a happy riding horse for me. Bud

Thanks everyone ! that's a lot of info for me to remember ! ^^
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I will check my bit, thanks. Never hurts to check :)
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I went working with dayka this morning, it was difficult, she has been in the rain for the last 2 days and there was really a lot of wind so she wasn't exactly in a good mood. But we did some ground work first, just some walking around, then some turns, she was as reluctant to turn left but she didn't pull back today and by the end of it she looked pretty happy.
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This afternoon wind had dropped a bit so I did a riding session.
I thought the same as you vicci so I didn't film it, the wind being enough stress for her. I will try to find a way to film without it being so obvious to her (fyi, she's part appaloosa, you can always see the white in her eyes but I agree it does look like she's worried by it).
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I focused on my seat, dropped my stirrups a bit to help keep my feet still and relaxed.
I noticed what kicki said about small corrections too, so today I just let her be in charge of where we were going and only became active to turn at the end/corners of the field and to slow down when she picked up too much speed.
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The turns where much better, I was very careful to turn from the head and prepare the turns and sure enough when I did it she turned (with leg a few times only), and when I forgot to do it she didn't turn, so i'll definitely keep practicing until it becomes a reflex.
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I was a bit surprise that she bucked three or four times at the begining in response to my legs becoming active. Always when we were coming down from a trot and she wanted to stop but I asked her to keep walking. Nothing really violent but I was surprised to get an immediate response like that. (she bucked once on 3/4 different times, not 3/4 times in a row).
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I was also suprised to see that she seemed very stressed when I was asking her to just walk and stay at a walk. So I decided to let her go into trot, I just made sure that she kept it calm and didn't step into canter. I could feel she really wanted to but she was very responsive to both voice cues and my fingers closing on the reins when she was about to canter so I let trot. That seemed to relax her pretty fast actually. We did about 15 minutes, she did most of it at a trot. I was wondering now if that's a good idea to let her do that? She doesn't get worked up when she trots like she does when I don't let her but I'm wondering if that could be teaching her something bad that i'm not thinking about right now but that could be a problem later ?
I'm not sure why she's more comfortable at a trot, I was thinking maybe because she is not used to carrying weight, trotting making it easier with the added impulsion?
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At the end of the session she seemed really relaxed, the wind was still strong but she wasn't worried by it anymore so I'm thinking that's a good sign (and she did her usual roll when I take the saddle off, she seemed in a good mood)
I'll keep spending more time on ground work and remember to give her space when i'm ridding, I'll upload a video as soon as I can figure out a way to make sure I'm on the right way :)

Hey, bud, i didn't see your last post with writing mine.
IT's hard to explain, but she is very jumpy on hand, spooky even sometimes, but when she's tacked up she relaxes and she's very calm when I'm in the saddle.
I think her stress is entirely coming from me asking the wrong way, she is very sensitive and it stresses her not understanding what i'm asking and she must feel my frustration.
When I see how it went this afternoon I think she enjoyedit because we started with her really nervous and tense and when ended with her being relaxed and coming to me for rubs and just in a really good mood.
I need to learn to ask her things correctly that's as simple (and complicated) as that. WhenI don't get in her way giving her confusing directions she's very cooperative.

Hi Lucie - you know I really admire you; you are doing this in a second language, explaining everything so well, putting yourself "out there" for examination and critique and take everything that is said so openly and graciously. I wish more horse owners could be like you!
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I am very confident you will get there Lucie, as you are so willing to learn and adapt and are not at all defensive. I think the key is to back off a lot with this horse, slow down, and take a much more "baby steps" approach as per Bud's wonderful plan that he has outlined.

That was beautifully said Vicci. Hooray for Lucie and her effort. SHE WILL GET THERE. Bud USA

Thanks guys, I appreciate it. That's the great thing about this forum, i don't feel like anyone is being judgemental, when you give advice it's just to help out so there's no reason to get defensive, I am definitely not a pro, I still have a lot to learn and i would be crazy not to listen to people who have more experience than me :)
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So a little update. Unfortunately i haven't been able to film anything, i'm using my phone to do it so it's tricky... I feel like it's been getting better.
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I have been focusing on my position and Dayka has been responding really well. Yesterday I really felt like she was beginning to understand the difference between when i used both legs, just one or neither.
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She is a lot more cooperative on the turns too, I am really careful to start with my head although i still look to the ground sometimes instead of where I want to go, so there's still work there.
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I've realised part of my problem is that I don't fully trust her yet when I4m riding although she seems to trust me. I guess that's from having really bad falls over the years, I anticipate what could go wrong. I try to take deeps breaths when i realise i'm doing it, dayka is really sensitive to when i'm tense so that's a good way for me to realise when i need to relax when i see her tense for no good reason.
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Today we did a short session with her field mate with us, we did zigzags, going away from each other, walking next to one another and leading/following. The other mare was a bit tense but Dayka was relaxed and she seemed to enjoy having her friend working with us.
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then an "evil" pickup drove really fast by us with a rattling trailer, and I had my first fall with her. But she was a really good girl, at first she was panicked but she did listen to me and I managed to calm her down some before having to jump off the saddle and afterwards she was tense but cooperative when i made her go back to where she had gotten scared and then got back onto the saddle to finish on a calm note. I think she will be a really nice trail horse once she has more experience with "scary stuff". she reacts but she doesn't stay scared once the surprise is over.
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Next week the weather is supposed to be nice so i'll try to film another session so you guys can tell me if my seat's improved.
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One last thing, i think it wa vicci, i dropped my bit during the week but it was too slack, I put it back likein the video and actually i think it looked too tight because she was fighting it, now that she's realaxed it sits nicely i think, i'll try to get it on film and you can tell me what you think ;)

Hi Lucie I am so happy that you were not hurt in your fall while riding Dayka. I re-reading your last post, my thoughts go to your comments about why your horse seems to be more comfortable in the trot than the walk. The reason why most horses are started at the walk is because they have to learn to balance themselves with added weight that they are carrying Also, depending the ground work, [length of time, level of instruction in how they are cued to move each body part, legs neck and head, and how fluid their movement becomes] is important in the development and condition that they bring to you when riding is started. A horse in good condition will have very little problems in the walk at the beginning stages. However, balancing a rider has to be learned and there will be mistakes, but all things being equal, if we as trainers have done or home work ie. conditioning, they will quickly master the balancing act. That is to say that if we as riders are consistent in our balance while on them. If there is a problem in the conditioning, the horse will usually be more content to be in a faster gate, because it`s easier for them to manage the additional weight of the rider especially in the turns. This is the reason why time is needed in the ground work training. Horses need this time develop their bodies. My suggestion to you would be to keep your horse in a WALK until the time that you can bring an elegance to that WALK, and horse is really expressing herself with dignity. This can be accomplished by executing 20 mtr. turns while you learn intuitively the movement and undulations of her body. I would also encourage you to learn the cadence of each footfall. Then she can be cued correctly and on time..... When this is mastered we can be in harmony as a rider with the movement of our horse. Also I would encourage you to breathe deeply as you find that she will match your breathing. This will take the harmony between you two to new level. This is within your reach, but it needs to be developed slowly. Try not to micro-manage too much and allow your mare have some responsibility for the decisions while being ridden. When this comes into play, a whole new horse is born. I hope that this gives something to think about while ridding your mare. You have all the time in the world to develop this connection. Please enjoy the ride Bud

Thank you bud for your reply, I think you are absolutely right about why she prefered trotting.
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I can say that you are because since I have been working on my seat and using all the advice you gave me, and therefore am more balanced, she has no trouble staying at a walk. Like Mel said I was so far forward it was probably really uncomfortable for her. Over the last week she has had no problem staying at a walk, extending her neck instead of always keeping it high, starting to raise her back better too, and since she's not bothered with my weight she's a lot more relaxed too (I assume that's why).
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I try to keep in mind what you said earlier about just being a passenger for now, giving her space to try and learn on her own. Doing that I also noticed that I was rewarding her at the wrong time. For example say I wanted her to go forward I would give her a rub when I felt she was about to move, which would cause her to stop before actually taking that first step. Now I let her really start then I reward and I feel that has allowed her to actually start to learn the link between my cues and what i expect. I feel now that i didn't give her enough time before to do that, i guess that's what you were referring to as micro managing ?

GOOD FOR YOU LUCIE. That is right-on. Now, just let it happen and proceed slowly as the connection grows and enjoy each other. `talk to you later. Bud

Hey guys !
So I debated with myself whether to share this because I really feel silly but it was an important step I think so just because you really helped me with this issue and I haven't updated the topic I'll just share...
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Today was the first time that I rode Dayka on my own. That's the part i'm proud of because it went really well. She doesn't move at all at the mounting block anymore. I'm also getting a lot better at leading from the head and when i do it right she just smoothly goes in the direction i'm looking at. Since my last update I haven't ridden a lot because my shoulder had been hurting a bit from my fall but we've done a lot of ground work with poles to help her focus on raising those feet. So much so that today she was looking for the poles herself and making a small circuit through them, it was really funny.
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So now the part I feel really silly about since it was going well... I was so stressed out about being on my own with her that I rode for a grand total of... 9 minutes ! I am officially the most insecure person in the world ! lol
Dayka was definitely ready to keep going but I wasn't so I felt it was better to do just one exercise that went really really well and then end on this before I gave her all my stress. The whole time I was focused on my breathing and it helped but that was just a lot so I preferred keeping it short and working up from there since time has absolutely no importance for me.
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Anyway, that's it for today, i'll try filming next time I have someone around with me so you can help me see what I still need to work on if you don't mind.
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Thanks again for all your help, it feels really nice to see s=things progressing :)

Well, I've read that three times and I can't find an ounce of silliness in it! On the contrary, what I found was courage to go beyond your feelings of insecurity, strength to recognise that you had done enough for today, and the wisdom to share it with us so that we can learn and remind ourselves that quality over quantity is better every time :-)

:D, Lucie, let me help you feel not so silly. The first time I got on Pye I didn't last 9 seconds let along 9 minutes, my balance was so rubbish after not riding for so long, he went what the heck and tried to balance me and I jumped off ;).
What's important is safety, if you don't feel safe your horse will know and will worry, so keeping it safe is all part of the riding experience.
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Reading through all the comments and adding a bit to Bud's comment, there's something I need you to try when you get on Dayka next, it's something I do with riders that have lost their nerve and if you practice it a few times it will benefit both you and Dayka. .... When you get on, can you just sit there and breath thinking like this.... Breath in all the air and universe around you all the way down to your toes, imagine it flooding through every part of your body, when you breath out, don't think you're breathing out via your nose or mouth, imagine it coming out of your back, your stomach and your shoulders. As this happens you'll start to feel your whole body relax. On the second breath as you breath in the universe focus on your pelvis area, breath the air down to it and let the breath sink around that area relaxing your pelvic muscles, as you breath out let the pelvic area slump/relax/flop not quite sure what word to use, but a complete relaxation of that area. As you do this you'll find your thighs will relax, your legs will lengthen, (no stirrups) and your ankles will relax. As your doing this watch Dayka's head, you'll find it will start to drop with you and she'll start to carry your weight differently. By the time you've done about 4 of these breaths you'll find your body position completely different and relaxed. When you feel this, pop your feet in your stirrups, gently lean forwards from the pelvis and ask for walk on, and nod up once with your head as she will be watching you. Dayka should walk, then keep in this relaxed mode doing nothing else but let her walk. You shouldn't need any leg at all. She'll then start to find her way of balancing you so you can work together. To stop her, slightly move both legs forward onto the should and release the pressure immediately she stops.
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You're doing fantastic!!!!

Mel
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