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Horse Behavior and Training

Too relaxed to move

Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed
Hi I have a gelding called Victor who is an ex Hong Kong racehorse. He's very quiet and friendly and easy to handle. I'm told he's used to travelling on airplanes and living the racing life in Hong Kong. When he came into my care I was told he was a 'kick along' kind of horse. I've found even firm leg bumps don't bring consistent response. He's sound and will walk forward on the lead without protest. It's just when a rider is sitting on him he often won't budge from a standstill. We've tried the giddy up rope and he seemed to respond initially but he's so relaxed he's now desensitised to it and ignores it. It seems like a rider could stand up on his back and dance the hula and he wouldn't bat an eyelid. He's been a 'city boy' and it's taken him some adjustment to the more natural way of a horse's life. (For example the first time he walked under a tree branch in the paddock and it poked him he came rushing out - it's like he's previously been 'bubble-wrapped'.) Someone paid over $100,000 for him as a foal so I guess they took real extra care of him. Does anyone know much about life for race horses in Hong Kong and can tell me more which might shed some light on his too easy-goingness? Has anyone got some helpful advice - which doesn't involve pain or fear as a motivation to get him moving more enthusiastically and willingly?
Vee
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed
Your horse sounds lovely and seems to have a quite similar personality to mine.  Unfortunately I haven't figured out yet how to get him going forward when ridden, yet.  
My gelding is an 8 year old ex-trotting racehorse. He's friendly and calm but can be playful in the field with his buddy.  The giddy rope didn't motivate him either. With ground work, he will walk across tarp on the first try and the plastic bags on a stick looked merely interesting to him.  He'll follow along willingly enough when ridden but not when he's on his own or leading.  So I am trying to get a person to walk in front to get him moving initially and then we overtake them and perhaps this will build up his confidence gradually.  I am also having him follow my mare on a same loop with the hope that the route would be so familiar that he will be comfortable to be ridden there alone.  He's a recent purchase so the area is still all new to him.
Longlining hasn't had much sucess either so really I am just writing to let you know that you aren't alone and if I do figure out what motivates him, I'll report back.  



Kathryn in NZ
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed
Hi Vee, Thanks for sharing :) Yes it's always nice to hear from others who are struggling with the same kinds of issues. It's quite an amusing one in the manner that most people have much more uncomfortable or dangerous issues to talk about.  I'm grateful Victor is such a sweetheart but I'd like riding to be fun for him. 

I've worked with trotters and pacers and driven them on the race track - the ones I drove were signalled to walk forward using the bit. We would give a gentle but quick tweak left and right on their mouth with the bit and click our tongue and they would understand they needed to walk forward. 
When I've gotten a Standardbred used to being ridden I've combined the bit-tweak with the legs and they've gradually understood they both mean the same thing. I hope this might be some help to you. Understanding what previous trainers have done can help make a difference, which is why I was hoping there might be someone on here who can give me some more insight into the Hong Kong thoroughbred racing. I can only imagine the rider on Victor's back would have been probably very small and light with legs up high - so perhaps legs weren't used at all? It's possible the stick was used more to say go? I don't use sticks or whips but if that's what Victor is used to it's a bit of a challenge to change his signal to something else.
I've tried leading him with a rider on him from another horse and that got him moving, but not on his own. All I can think of is repetitive leading the rider and getting him to learn to associate the leg pressure with the signal to go, like a horse being started for the first time.
I also want to think of creative ways to make the ride fun so that he enjoys himself. 
Great talking to you!  :) :)
JoHewittVINTA
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Hi Kiwi. Firstly, whilst I have had some experience with thoroughbreds (both in & after racing) this is not my main area. However, like Monty, I believe a horse is always a horse first & a fine tuned athlete or other human required speciality second. So, Victor is very happy with his home. He's relaxed & nice to be with. It's likely he's had an adoring groom to care for him but was always ridden by someone else. Around the globe it's usual for racehorses to be 'ponied' - lead from another horse. This 'support' of another, usually very calm, horse helps take some of the stress away before a race, especially as they usually train in pairs or groups. In short, going it alone with just a rider is a bit alien to Victor. He's used to 'someone' on the ground with him. I suggest you tack him up on a nice day when you have nothing else pressing to do. Take him for a lovely, relaxed walk & when you have gone a good distance find an impromptu mounting block. Once aboard, turn him for home & just wait, quietly with your reins loose but do not allow grazing. Give him time to work out that being back home would be better. Any foot movement towards taking you home should be encouraged & praised. Just one thing - he's been a racehorse so he might decide to go home at speed. Choose where you walk carefully so that should he take off you can gradually slow him safely & keep the positive of forward movement. If he feels the reinforcement of your praise & importantly your enjoyment of this exercise, no matter what he does, he will learn you can share so much more. The trick here is to give Victor a reason to want to take his rider forwards. Once that is established all the other stuff - like going where, when & at your chosen speed will follow. Good luck. Cheers, Jo.
Kathryn in NZ
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed
Hi Jo, That sounds great! Thank you very much for your reply. I will do as you've said and let you know how it goes. :) :) :)
Kathryn in NZ
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed
Hi again. I spent time with Victor this morning. Now that I think about it I had already tried what you said, Jo but I didn't wait long enough for him to move and I led him. This time I got on and just waited. His patience ran out before mine and he took a few steps which I rewarded with a rub on the withers. A while later he moved again but only for a few steps to a more comfortable spot. (As he started moving the second time I rewarded him again.) Then he just stood in the next spot for ages. Eyelids closing sleepily. Slight shifting of weight on his legs. Both ears pointing up but back at me so I knew his attention was on me. I did some deep relaxing breathing and enjoyed the scenery. Eventually my patience wore out and I decided to try sliding my legs back and forth lightly on his sides instead of squeezing them. He reacted to that and moved forward again a few more steps. At that point I rewarded him and dismounted, hoping we were finishing on a positive enough point to pick up from next time. I also watched a new lesson on here (new to me anyway) by Flo on 'into pressure' and I think it might be good for me to try using that lesson with Victor.
JoHewittVINTA
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Hi. Great that you got some forward movement. I'm unclear though - was this at home? If so, then no, this is not what I suggested. Often horses refuse to move with their first rider - because they have no reason to want to go forwards. Therefore, if you take them away from their friends & stable, turn them around so they are being asked to go 'home' & get on they move willingly. Either way, I'm sure you will find the "key" to Victor. With regard to use of the giddy up rope I suggest you study the lesson 'Walter won't go forward' as there is so much more to moving a planted horse shown there. Cheers, Jo.