Hi Irishwabb

I'm so sorry to hear about what you have been through, your horse sounds very upset and you are hurt. You are doing the right thing in getting a professional trainer in. I'm in the UK so cannot help with names/contacts etc. but I do wish you luck in your search. In the meantime I strongly recommend that you do not get on her anymore until you get to the root cause of what is going on. Just keep everything very calm and quiet for now. With very best wishes for you both of you.

It sounds like you did the best you could under the circumstances.The first thing I would do is find a different barn because these people are going to make things difficult for you.It seems like they want you to fail so they can say I told you so.In my experience when my horse acted out the first time she had a burr in her girth and and the second time she had a sore that was behind the girth so I didn't notice it but when my weight was added it caused the girth to hit the sore.The lesson is check them and the equipment completely.I don't know of a trainer but you might use support to ask Monty.

Thanks guys, My husband and I kept talking it over today before going up there and we agree, with Molly still trying to buck the saddle off after being led, held, and released into the paddock area, very unusual we began to think what we might have changed. I had ordered Monthys saddle pad "The full Monty". It is set up much differently then the usual rectangle pad you find in tractor supply which I used before. I switched because of the memory foam and the fact that I use a size 18 saddle on her. It seemed that I had the saddle on straight as the chest piece lined up right. But it might not be feeling the same to her as it has closer contact in leg area.The first time I used it she acted jumpy.Having been in the pasture regularly now I have a fly mask on her but her despite that and me putting spray on her her face from muzzle down is very dry. Also her halter was too tight about a month ago and I treated her for some rub sores with neosporin, and now vasoline to aid healing. The bitless bridle I use crisscrosses under her jaw so there may be a rub there too. Has anyone used any type of oil substance in their food as a supplement to help with the dry skin? I am just gonna have to eliminate things one by one. Also we investigated using PVC piping and orange construction fence to make a portable divider for me to divide up that large roundpen. I cannot see how they could object to it as we put it up for the session and store it in our trailer afterwards. It should be looked on as nothing other then another tool I am using, but we will see. Its been raining so I will give them that, but I doubt I will ever see these people add those panels to the existing unusable roundpen. It such a shame, 60 beautiful acres a nice facility just lazy owners with boarders of all horses that have been lesson horses or some show horses but none green and still learning. With all having anything but a glazed look in the eyes from boredom. One boarder who was there yesterday looked like a deer in the headlights when I walked in today and said hello on my way to the tack room. Today when I went up the aisle Faith was asleep and Molly woke her with a hello nicker to me. When I approached from outside the stall to say hi she still was mouthy so I turned my back and walked away to one stall down and spent time brushing Faith etc. Molly nickered every so often as if to say hey what about me? When I went back to her she was reasonably respectful as she didnt turn her but to me was happy to be brushed, eyes wiped, ears etc. So I really do not see an aggressive problem I feel strongly its a tack problem. More the bridle as I remember her now tossing her head quite a bit as we rode. Having her lift her head today to see earlier sores I saw one right behind the jaw still touchy so I will start there. She has a bosel she has responded well to before, it just does not have anything but a regular headstall so if she were to slip it she would be loose. I used it over a rope halter with lead in case it would do that. I might go back to that too. Either way I appreciate it. She is not the first green horse I have trained it's just been awhile and so many changes have blended together I need to sort out what has happened chronologically to see what is happening. I will send a note to support thats a great idea, thanks, Irishwabbit

you could have introduced her to the new blanket and did the rub all over before you rode her with it.I would let the sores on her face heal.Two web site that you could check about a supplement for dry skin are www.valleyvet.com and www.bigdweb.com and Big Dee is in Streetsboro, Ohio

I looked in my Big Dee catalog supplements-coat care and found 3 products that also mentioned skin Mirra-Coat,Super Coat 17,Wheat Germ Oil

Wabbit-
I think you are wise to look for another barn. It's tough to work through a horse's issues and the barn owner's issues at the same time. I suggest you ask up front about one or two hypothetical situations and what the prospective barn owner would do to handle them, so you can see if you have a good fit for your horse's new home.

And I think you are even smarter to look for pro help. A pro will be able to help you debug whether your horse has a tack fit issue, some other pain/body problem, or whether she is just tossing a fit to get out of work. I know there is a list of Monty trainers on www.montyroberts.com. You can check there to see if there's one in your area.

One thing I can suggest you look at, as your horse is a mare: was she in estrus or coming into estrus when she threw you? I know my mare is super sensitive around her barrell when it's her time of the month, and she doesn't at all like to be girthed up. I suggest that this might be a reason why she bucked. I keep a calendar for her as I do for me, so I have some prediction of when she will cycle. I usually don't plan any big rides for that few days but rather keep things lower key and closer to home. I have found an herbal supplement called Mare Magic that really has helped her with the crankies. I have her on a regular daily dose. The packaging says to do a heavy dose for 7-10 days and then go to a lower daily dose but I found the lower dose wasn't quite enough so I keep her at the initial dosing level. It's all natural so I don't worry that there will be side effects.

Hope this helps and good luck!

Wabbit-

I forgot to mention: I have used corn oil to great effect with my horse. You can use the regular corn oil you purchase at the grocery store. I prefer to get organic if possible but that's up to you. Start out with 1/4 cup daily for a week or two, and up it to 1/2 cup daily if needed. This will give your horse extra carbs so it will put on weight if you have a high enough amount in her diet, so watch for that. It does give the coat a beautiful sheen and keeps the skin conditioned as well. You can split the oil between morning and evening feedings until the horse gets used to the flavor. Make sure you don't give so much that it causes diarrhea.
Good luck!

Thanks all, I did introduce her to the new blanket by letting her smell it and rubbing it all over and she was fine, the third time I used it is when I got thrown so all the elements need to be weeded out but thanks it is a good idea, I thought about her coming in heat also I am watching as she is irregular and my other one like clockwork,lol! I am working on her jaw sores they are working great and I will check out the websites. This barn has two grooming stalls yet people insist on using an old set of cross ties in hallway blocking you, so I made a quick cluck ( out of habit mostly and half kiss) so he would know that someone was coming up on him as I recognized he was an old horse with poor site. I put my hand out and stayed to wall. Owner was standing to do something with him and I waited till she paused, as I was walking thru she says" I just have to ask exactly why are you clucking to the horse as you went by? I smiled and said Oh just to let him know someone was here his attention seemed elsewhere, just to be safe. She then went on to lecture me that clucking is strictly to tell horses to go forward and he is on cross ties. I said oh ok I will just say Hi then. So this highly trained horse show horse is in cross ties and if someone happens to cluck to their horse coming down the hall the horse will move forward even though its owner never did it? It was more her tone of voice, literally laughing at me, shaking her head like you dumb a** then she recovered into her owner fake smile and said Oh its ok , la la la. I was wearing a crabplace shirt that said "Bite Me" I was so tempted to point to it!!LOL!

Good for you!You sure have way more patiences with people than I would. I would be opening my mouth and getting my self in trouble.

I would find a new barn. Some place that has a reputable trainer that works out of it. The place you are at sounds rude and very clique.
As for the bucking, I would check saddle fit, not just the pad. I am also curious as to why you don't use a snaffle bit? You said you are using a bitless, or a bosal. I have no objections to either, just wondering if there is a reason. Did the bucking start once you came to this barn? Is there maybe something around the riding area that is spooking your horse?

I am currently looking at saddle fit I brought it home to inspect and clean it. I also bought a thin light blanket to put on then the Full Monty Saddle pad then saddle when I go to try her with saddle again. I use bitless because I have not ridden in years. I explored the studies of Dr. Cooks bitless bridle and since a severe bit was used on her at her former home for ground training I saw behavior suggesting trying it. She tends to want to put the lead clip in her mouth still as she thinks she needs metal there. She was ridden at first with dually as sidepull then bosel, then the bitless which workes really well with her, its just her jaw became sore from halter rubbing and now th facemask for flies rubbing. so I took it off last night and just put on fly spray best I could. I communicate with her through legs, and light neck reining she has learned with bitless. She has less then 100 rides on her more like 50 so she is a baby though 5 yrs old. We are going to a place not too far from where we are now to see what their barn is like. Hope we like it and get them moved. The bucking began once I came to this barn. Actually alot of the behavior came after some time at being at this barn which makes me thing they are stern about getting the horses out of stalls so they can leave, actually I have seen that with my own eyes which is why since I hit the ground we have gone up to let them out at night, now putting Coco Soya on their food as of last night and working on stall manners and attitude with Molly as a new beginning. Thanks for all help will let you know what happens, Irishwabbit

I agree with new barn. I have a friend who had a similar situation with her horse when she moved to a new barn. Her horse is a very kind older mare always a solid citizen. At the new barn, she turn into a nervous wreck-biting, kicking and became so nervous she was not ridable. She moved her horse once again to a different barn and the next day the mare was back to her kind sweet self. No problems since. Turn out was inconsistent at the first place, but other than that my friend could not see any ill treatment of horses. Just an uncomfortable feeling around the owner/handlers. If you feel uncomfortable at this barn, your horse may be picking up on the same frequency.

We met with owner of new barn yesterday afternoon and he is in process of replacing all his old board fencing with new that has cord wire at top. Ours have never had electric so I imagine they would get used to it. The place is I would say a step between where we started and where we are at barn newness wise, some stalls are prefab fireproof some are older wood. A guy comes in and rides alot of the horses for owners, he seemed nice. The owner gets on his horse still sometimes, with his wife on hers, she barrel races. They would be about Monty's age. He offered to watch Molly and I and help us. He was a judge for many years of western horses and knows I just want a safe horse to pasture ride and to train the two year old the same. He does have a paddock with trail obstacles, car wash, bridge, tires, and a ball he said he just bought so there would be more groundwork to do with Faith then present place. I put the cocosoya stuff on carrots to be mixed in with their food for am since they had already been turned out by time I got there yesterday after seeing other farm. The owner asked me if I knew that oils in the food bins draw flies. I said I would wash it out the next day I just had gotten there later then I had planned. I went to see ours in the field as they brought in someones new horse to join the herd and that horses owner was worried about her kicking others. No marks on either of ours overnight. The flies in the field were terrible! Huge! I fly wiped them and am thinking of having them hold ours in stalls if I am going up, then work them after awhile after they have eaten, by then it ought to be cooler and they can enter field once sun has gone down and they are not so bad. Must be all the rain we had and warm temps following. We have a 30 day notice on the place we are at but I am not sure they would enforce it I cannot afford double board so I will either decide to take time in next weeks and look more or tell them we need to leave and move them quicker. Will just see how it shakes out. Thanks for all support. I have brought saddle home to inspect closely and clean it will be awhile till I am up on Molly again might not be until fall if we move.

One thing I would also do is try chiropractic. Maybe your horse has a sore back for whatever reason. I have found a horse chiropractor to be very helpful!

Hi all, we met with one other possibility for moving the horses and found what we have been searching for all along. A small barn with a family owned place and few horses but whose property borders and blends with bridle trails of a local state park! Even near the lake! They have very happy horses and even take them swimming! No indoor arena but Molly does not care for that and it is a small trade off to me. The lady teaches natural horsmanship and belongs to the local trail club unit. Matter of fact she is hosting one in August I was planning on going too before the problem with Molly. We did discover that the problem with Molly was that the leather straps on the bitless bridle were putting pressure on the sores and I got on her with the bosel and she rode wonderfully. We have moved the horses already to the new place and all that is left is to inform the people where they were at. They knew we planned to take horses on a trail ride and when we came that morning suddenly our trailer tire was flat on the drivers side. We had trailered our wooden platform down to the new place of ride the day before and it had not had any effect. My genius husband had the jack and spare ready and our friend came to trailer Molly and I took Faith. We brought the tire home Tuesday and filled it and it is just fine, has lost not one ounce of pressure... hows that for a nice place huh! So now I will call tomorrow night and tell them we will not be there for August and deal with the flack. But the horses are safe and that is what matters. The horses seem to like the new place and this lady is smart and is introducing them over a rope fence to the horses there according to their place on the totem pole, lowest first. She seems very cool and was awesome jumping in to help my husband get our trailer hooked and all. It was also my birthday and I could not have asked for a better present! Thanks for all your answers they helped alot! Irish

Wow!, what an ordeal you have had..... After reading all this story I am so relieved that you found what seems the right place after all you and the horses went through! Isn´t it great to be able to write about our problems and have so many nice and sympathetic people respond?
I really think the owners of that awful barn should be fined if there is a place or organization to write and report to so that other nice person and horse do not get treated like you did.
Some people think only in figures and no amount of wonderful scenery will make up for manners and courtesy.
Good luck and keep us posted as to progress!
Sincerely,
Christy

Dear Irish,
I am exhuasted just reading about what you went through, i can only imagine how difficult it was for you. It is so upsetting when we our horses are not settled.
Thank God you took action and got out of there. It sounds like you and your horses you are in the right place. I hope it all continues to work out well for you.
richandi