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Horse Behavior and Training

Taking trainingring of Dually in mouth

By:
Miriam (Holland&Germany)
Date:
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed 650 lessons completed

Hi everybody! I'm having real fun with an Arabian gelding, 4 years old, who only became gelding recently. He has an issue about taking everything in his mouth, like just last week taking his owners son's jacket between his teeth and lift the 5 year-old boy in the air. When training him with the Dually he tends to take the training-ring between his teeth, making it dangerous to his teeth to school him. I don't want to hurt his teeth, that would make his mouth a remedial issue. Since Arabians have such small noses and bigger cheeks, The trainingband and -ring hang lower than usual, but taking a smaller Dually doesn't work. We're making great progress on the longlines, going backwards through an L-shape pole corridor etc. I tried to ignore the teeth-thing, but would like to do the right thing to address it. Any suggestions?

Rudi - Pratteln, Switzerland
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed

I had the same problem with a young horse. My interpretation was "displacement". When I got forward with him more slowly he lost it.

Andy
Hello!

Sorry to state the obvious, but have you had his teeth floated? Arabs have particularly hard teeth that need doing fairly often.

Miriam (Holland&Germany)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed 650 lessons completed

I will have that checked!
I just started working with him, he doesn't have any tooth-related issues when ridden, but still this might be a good reason.
I don't think his training is going too fast, we take our time, he understands very quickly.
He needs chalanges, besides playing around in "his" herd, he immediatly took over leadership in his new 4 member boygroup.
I thought it might be a dominance-issue.
Wiil keep you informed about teeth.
Thank you both!

Kicki -- Sweden
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed

Ha! Nalle does the very same thing.
He figured out very quickly, when I worked with a rope halter, that grabbing the lead rope in his mouth stopped the annoying shaking of it. He does it less the older he gets, so I hope he will grow out of it completely. It is a danger for his entire mouth when he manages to get the hook end of the rope in it.
I'd say grabbing things is more typical for boys than girls, and some of it certainly comes from teething or such things, but at least in Nalle's case it as case of being Mr. Smartypants. ;)

Miriam (Holland&Germany)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed 650 lessons completed

Sure, making him go backwards and paying attention to where he puts his feet distracts him from his little game. I mean he's still a kid and we don't want to destroy his playing-attitude, but let's hope that checking the teeth etc. and growing older makes it go away. Funny thing is ofcourse that when he's young you have to school more then when he's older and has learned all these things.
I remember seeing Monty deal with one of the Willing Partners who took the rope in his mouth when working on the Dually, too.

neblina
Hello!

What about putting something with a bad flavour on it? Like pepper? He won't be eating it a lot, so I don't think it will be bad for him. It would be only for he put in the mouth, fell the taste and then loose it. We do this when a horse eats some linen or something he shouldn't.

Kicki -- Sweden
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed

I actually put a few drops of Tabasco sauce on the hook. He only had to smell it to refrain from touching it. (You should have seen his look! He wasn't happy with me at all. *LOL* )
Soon as the smell goes out of it he's at it again, though, so it seems it's more for stopping him from hurting himself than teaching him not to play with it.

Miriam (Holland&Germany)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed 650 lessons completed

That sounds like the opposite of putting honey on a stick or bit! I will surely keep it in mind. At the moment he's so distracted by other items, that he forgets his playing around. We just ordered a brandnew Dually (his personal), it seems that the size (black) is a little bit smaller than the one I own for some years now. Maybe they just stretch-up while using and washing.
The trainingband is not as long as well, so he might loose his interest in it.
Thanks everybody for your suggestions!

julie m.
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed

I work with several Arabs, using the red (small) Dually. Using the smaller halter will give him less training ring to try to grab onto. I had to poke extra holes in the straps so I could adjust it properly but it works great that way. Just tuck the extra length of webbing back into the buckle after it is adjusted so that it isn't in the way.

To poke those extra holes, you will need a helper, a small kitchen torch or cigar lighter, a long nail of the appropriate size to match the other holes, and a pair of longnosed pliers. Do this outside with good ventilation. Hold the nail in the pliers and heat it til the end is red hot. Have your helper hold the webbing taut and then push the nail through the webbing in the spot you would like the new hole to be. It should go through like a hot knife through butter. It will smell like burning plastic, so be sure to have adequate ventilation. Any sharp melted pieces left over after burning the new holes can be either cut off with nippers or filed off with a coarse nail file. If you come through the webbing back to front with the hot nail, those sharp pieces will end up on the side away from the horse.

Also, try using his natural distractibility to your favor. When he goes to take the ring/clip in his mouth, have him do a few tight hip turns and end with a good back up--make him work. PICNIC: positive instant consequences, negative instant consequences. Instant reward for being good, instant penalty for being bad. He'll get tired of it eventually and just leave the darn thing alone. And you'll have a horse that circles and backs better too :).

Good luck!

Miriam (Holland&Germany)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed 650 lessons completed

Hi Julie M., the idea of making new holes will come in handy on many occasions to come, this little guy won't fit into the red halter, his cheeks are to big for the band behind the ears to fit around. I will surely keep it in mind, thanks!
My training is based on PICNIC, you show me that my direction is right, I'm confident he'll loose this playful habit as time goes by and his worklevel gets even more interesting.
He's just under the saddle and still has a lot to learn.
Thanks and I will keep you posted!

Vio Berlin
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed

Hi everybody ! Just in time I am reading about your horses eating up the clip or end of nose band as the colt I am working with does it too. He is only 19 month old and just does it at the very beginning of the session when the Dually has been fixed and I ask him to follow me. He bites a lot - not harshly anymore but always when I think he stoped there will come the next day and he greets me with nipping my leg and pulling away immediately like saying: "see, I am quicker, I bit you, let's play". I school him and he trys it again this time I just stand there, offer my leg where the boot is because I know, he cannot hurt me at that spot and just in the same second he bites I kick his leg - he feels it but I do not hurt him. Distraction works often perfectly but not always. If so, than he will come back another time, lower his head, think about biting again--- and doesn't. A five year old gelding in his group is worth than him, he stole my Dually out of my hand and off he ran! If I tie my little colt up he eats the end of the rope up because he needs to play and do something as beeing tied up is still difficult for him so I just take it out of his mouth again if too much of it just disapears in him and I think that's fine ??? He also nipps and did bite when tied up and asked to lift feet for cleaning them out. I had to go back and untie him for cleaning the feet because all by myself I could not deal with him biting me into the back. I would have been too late back up to untie and school him which would not have been INSTANT consequence. I am wondering how long it will take until he stops biting and nipping. The plan is to train more "standing still" without doing anything which is yet hard for him, and then to rise the fish like tie him up AND clean feet etc. I hope to read about your progresses, thank you for suggestions ! VioBerlin

Rudi - Pratteln, Switzerland
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed

I am coming back to my interpretation of "displacement". To correct a such behaviour is much more difficult than one of another cause. Distraction and reducing stress helps.

Miriam (Holland&Germany)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed 650 lessons completed

So this is clearly an issue with young horses! Today we found out his left canine-tooth has a very sharp side, obviously some part was chipped off while biting whatever metal he takes in his mouth. So first we'll have his teeth done. Working with the Dually distracts him from his games, so during the trainingsession it's no longer an item. We just started training towards the mountingblock, and since I don't want a bit in his mouth now, we used the Dually. Two leadropes and the topring of a surcingle and he takes the first steps sideways.
Making your horse stand still for cleaning his feet without tying him up seems a real good excercise for whatever you're planning to do with him later. Sounds good!
We'll all keep working and keep eachother posted.

julie m.
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed

Miriam-

One more comment: if he wants something to mess with in his mouth, why not bit him up? After his teeth are done, of course. You can put a headstall (no reins) on him while he's wearing the Dually for any groundwork you wish to do and he'll have the bit to keep his mouth busy and off your leadline clip. Just a thought...

Miriam (Holland&Germany)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed 650 lessons completed

Thanks Julie M.for your comment, it seems a good solution! This little guy has enough to do to distract him from the trainingring, right now. Today his teeth were checked, no problem, so we'll continue our journey with a lot of interesting groundwork and some riding. I think his disadvantage is that he was meant to remain a stallion, not so many social contacts. Now that he's a gelding, he still has to find out a lot of things. It's fun anyway!

Mary_in_Tx
Hello!

Hi! I'm brand new to the Uni, but have to comment here... they won't necessarily grow out of it :-) My Arab gelding is 9 yrs old, and when he gets bored will still play with just about anything with his mouth to entertain himself: "Oh!!! Did *I* pull those brushes off onto the floor?"

I'm really excited about starting Monty's exercises!

Mary & Cimmy

Miriam (Holland&Germany)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed 650 lessons completed

So welcome Mary_in_Tx! You'll have a great time working your way through all these lessons and the forum. The trainingring-item seems to vanish to the background, now that real work has started, but it's interesting to hear about your Arab who still has this habit at a more advanced age. It might be their intelligence or their playful way of looking at life. This is my first contact with arabians, so I'll learn more about them on the way. The excitement doesn't stop with these lessons, it gets more interesting every week!

palomino4475
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed

I'd just like to comment that it's not just arabs... I have a 13-year-old quarter horse who can't seem to keep his mouth off anything! I'm thinking that maybe it's because he was gelded late... He just keeps me on my toes!

Miriam (Holland&Germany)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed 650 lessons completed

So being gelded late might be a cause for this tendency. Interesting!
First thing I demanded of all people handling the horse is not feed him from the hand.
There is a enormous improvement in his habit to nibble and I haven't seen him taking the ring in his mouth for some time now.

Miriam (Holland&Germany)
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed 250 lessons completed 300 lessons completed 350 lessons completed 400 lessons completed 450 lessons completed 500 lessons completed 550 lessons completed 600 lessons completed 650 lessons completed

Hi everybody!
A little update on the issue of taking the trainingring in the mouth.
Recently I bought a ropehalter, the clip is under the chin, so the work is more or less the same as the Dually, but nothing there that moves within his visionfield. THAT was his issue.
When we take a walk I pay attention to not let the slack in the line move too much, problem solved!
Miriam

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