Since I'm at it. :) Here's another interesting study!
Horses do communicate - with us!
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“Hey! See that bucket of feed over there? Yeah, that one. Can you grab that for me, please? I’m kind of hungry.”
Wait a minute. Did your horse just speak to you? Actually, he might have—in his own way, of course. New research by European scientists has revealed that horses do, in fact, try to intentionally communicate with us to achieve certain goals.
In their pioneering study, researchers have determined for the first time that horses are capable of heterospecific referential communication—essentially, the ability to communicate about something, specifically to someone else. More precisely, to us.
So does that mean our horses actually “talk” to us?
“They sure do,” said Rachele Malavasi, PhD, of the School of Ethical Equitation, in Moncigoli Di Fivizzano, Italy. Malavasi carried out her research in association with Ludwig Huber, PhD, professor at the Comparative Cognition Unit at the Messerli Research Institute at the University of Veterinary Medicine of Vienna in Austria.
“Horses are social animals which have evolved skills to maintain their social unity: affiliative relationships, protection from outsiders, social facilitation, and even social learning,” Malavasi explained. “We know now that their skill set also includes the ability to communicate intentionally with humans.”
In their study of 14 horses’ behavior, Malavasi and Huber placed two buckets just out of each horse’s reach. Each bucket contained either carrots, apples, or oats—as at least one of these treats would be likely to attract each horse, they said. The horse and handler stood inside a fenced-in area where they could see the buckets on opposite sides of the enclosure, just past a gate.
The handler did nothing but stand there. The horse, therefore, had to figure out a way to communicate to the handler: “Get me that bucket!” And so they did. In fact, for the most part, they did whatever it took to get the message across.
“The horses would alternate their gaze between the human and the reward (bucket), with the aim of conveying the attention of the experimenter to the desired reward,” Malavasi said. “But if that didn’t work, the horses would demonstrate real flexibility in their communicative strategies. They would nod their heads, turn their tails, and move their heads quickly toward the rewarded bucket in a ‘pointing’ kind of behavior.”
What’s more, the horses only made such great efforts when the human was actually looking at them, she said. The scientists instructed the “test” human to turn her body in different directions—as horses do appear to be able to detect a human’s attention toward them. When the humans seemed to not be paying attention, the horses first tried to get their attention before communicating about the food bucket.
“The horses searched for eye contact with the experimenter by turning their heads back to the experimenter,” said Malavasi. “But if they didn't obtain the reward, they would switch to another strategy, where they walked back to the experimenter and touch her.”
Until now, the only domestic animal shown to be capable of heterospecific referential communication is the dog, she said. Now that we know that horses can do it, too, it’s possible to extrapolate the significance of the findings even further—as it suggests that horses are capable of thought-out problem-solving.
“Having this ability means that horses do not just ‘behave’ without considering the consequence of their actions,” she said. “Rather, they are able to create a mental plan (for example, to reach a goal with the help of others around them), to evaluate the attentional state of that audience, and to modify their communicative strategy accordingly. Horses seem therefore able of iterative problem solving strategy.”
While all horses probably have the ability to intentionally communicate with us, many handlers don’t see it, Malavasi said. And some horses might have “given up” on trying to communicate with us, she said, especially if they have experienced learned helplessness through constant isolation and/or abuse.
“I recommend spending some time doing nothing but observing your horse in the field, if not with other horses, then alone,” Malavasi said. “Horse people need to know how horses communicate and especially how their own horses communicate.
“We found some horses were very ‘talkative,’ whereas others would use very subtle signals,” she added. “Learning the communicative strategies of your own horse is like getting to know another person: You’ll never stop learning, but the more you know, the more you love.
“It’s also possible that your horse has given up in communicating with you, because you never listen,” she continued. “That’s an unfortunate situation, but it can be fixed. If you don’t know what your horse wants, be creative, and test solutions. It could be a great game to play together, and you’re sure to see a positive change in your horse's attitude!”
The study, “Evidence of heterospecific referential communication from domestic horses (Equus caballus) to humans,” will appear in an upcoming issue of Animal Cognition.
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Link:
http://www.thehorse.com/articles/37681/study-confirms-horses-talk-to-human-handlers?utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=behavior&utm_campaign=07-03-2016
Kicki, you are on FIRE today. Great posts.
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I find that I am most interested in the above post because we have several horses that I would classify as JABBERS. They talk all the time. However, there is one that is light years beyond the others who talk. That would would be Miss ROSIE O GRADY. At times, I think that she could lead a seminar in horse-human communication. She IS most unusual, to say the least. She is a black, 23 yr old, never been bred, mare with trail and dressage experience.
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She has taught me more about horses in her life with us that all of the other horses combined.
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I can say absolutely, YES they do talk, but we have to just take the time to listen.
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Thanks for the articles
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Bud
I've emailed the writer of the article, but not heard back yet. One thing I've always worked on every since understanding Equus it to learn the language more. Each nod of the head, twitch of the ear all signifies something.
Something you'll notice on the training videos with Monty is that once the horses understand what Monty is asking, such as standing still at the mounting block, their left ear with twitch back and forth once. - translation 'I understand' at that point you'll notice Monty hardly has to do anything else and the horse does as it's asked :D
A horse shaking it's head at something really is saying No
Sticking it tongue out slightly when you've done something for the horse is thank you. Yes horses have manners ;)
Actually as Monty found out too that deer have the same language, I remember watching on FB one of those rescue videos where a baby deer was caught in wire and the mother was nearby at a loss. it's rescuers freed the baby and it bounded away with it's mother, then the mother stopped, turned around and stuck her tongue out to the rescuers before bounding off in to the undergrowth.
Would love to meet Miss ROSIE O GRADY Bud, I'm sure she could teach us a lot.
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You're welcome, Bud. And thank you!
Horses trying to communicate with us is no news to me either. Ever since I started to get close to them it was never even a question in my mind. To me it was an obvious and self-evident thing. Of course, as a kid, I had a more naive comprehension and idea of it, but it hasn't changed all that much today.
But I guess there *has* to be a scientific study and proof, even of the most "duh!-things", before it can be considered True.
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Mel, that's funny about the tongue - I don't think I have ever observed that one. Must keep a look out for it!
I was excited to read this article when it first came out as well because it reaffirmed what I'd already known, but I'm always amazed at how far behind scientists really are regarding horse (and animals in general) psychology. Considerate, intelligent horse owners and trainers have always known these 'new discoveries' pretty much forever, but scientists just now are starting to believe it. It was a long time before scientists finally started believing animals had emotions, even though its obvious to anyone who takes care of them and truly loves them... It reminds me of the study I saw two or three years ago, proving that horses use their ears to communicate. I smacked my palm across my forehead when I read that one; that's like one of the very first behaviors taught to horse-riding students. Everyone who has anything to do with horses knows or quickly learns that when a horse pins his ears he's upset, and these scientists were acting as though it was brand new information
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I'm also amazed by the fact that they are saying dogs and horses are the only ones to try and communicate to other species (us). The scientists who say that have obviously never owned a cat. Cats are very well known to try and communicate with their owners what they want- trying out different tones of meows to see which ones get a reaction, using many different methods to try and get their owners' attention, leading their owner to their food bowl and meowing, leading their owner to a door they want open... its ridiculous that scientists don't yet consider them a part of the group of animals who try and communicate with us.
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Oh well. I guess they'll figure it out eventually, lol :)
I have owned several budgies (tiny parrots for those who aren't familiar with the word) and they all communicated a LOT with me. No *scientific evidence* to back that up though... ;)
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But, you know, that isn't just in the world of animals that science need to speed up. When I studied at the University to become a certified kindergarten/prep school teacher in the 80's, it was announced as big news that newborn babies actually were able to feel pain. Wow! Who would've thought??? (imagine a smiley here for "rolling my eyes"!);)
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What I would like to see someone do a doctorate in, is whether all animals (let's stick with mammals here)that communicates amongst themselves, also communicate interspecies.
Add a spanner into the works...
If animals communicate, think, feel and put into action thoughts, wouldn't that entitle them to more rights and an intelligent being?
Not that it's something we'd see whilst scientists are just finding out they actually communicate ;)
Mel
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Wasn't there a case in court (in USA) where a chimpanzee(?) were given rights etc for those very reasons?
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Come to think of it, it isn't all that long ago since humans of other skin colour than white were considered less than intelligent beings. I shudder with the thought!
Funny coincidence. Today on TV here they aired a documentary of the famous gorilla Koko who has learned sign language.
The point being that while half of the scientists believes she does communicate, the other half claims she is just mimicking her... hmmm, hard to get the right word here: "trainer" doesn't seem right. "Family" seems too "unscientific", but from what I've seen that is what it is. She's lived with them for 44 years...
Yes I believe you're right Kicki :D
The question to raise I think is, just because they do not wish to pursue life like humans do and are content to live without material possessions, does their communication, feelings including love, sadness and anger and actions for survival, does this make them less intelligent? Humankind base intelligence on moving forwards with trying to know more, create more, cure diseases that are mainly caused by their previous creations, yet still are face with many problems and cause even more problems. The animal world, thrive peacefully and in harmony communicating with each other.
The more I've studied the horses the more I see, as many others do their intelligence is amazing. It is only their living in the now and being at peace that separates us from them.
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Well said Mel; Great topic you two, i would love to sit down at a table to discuss what each of us has discovered with our horses and their communication with us.
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.Question: How do you all instill CONFIDENCE in your horses? How do the horses communicate to you when they feel confident?
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. I have always believed that confidence plays a HUGE part in our journey to training and learning from these wonderful beings.
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GREAT THREAD
Bud
I'd like that too, Bud! :)
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I so agree with you on confidence playing a huge part. They tackle difficulties much better and calmer if they feel they don't have to flee or escape.
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I've been working this spring/summer to get my horse to feel confident enough to be in the lead when we go for a ride outdoors.
Long story short, he was allowed to be in front whenever he felt ready to do it, and for as long as he could muster it. When he stopped (I am lucky to have a horse that doesn't spin around - he just stops and stares) the steady friend passed him and showed the way past whatever was bewildering him.
Today that has paid off very well as he takes the lead voluntarily and walks calmly and confidently with a relaxed stride. His body language is very different from when he wasn't sure he could do it. :)
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So I guess you could say that in this case we instilled confidence in him by allowing him to succeed with the task at hand in his own pace. He was praised when he dared to walk forward and as long as I ignored whatever bewildered and confused him and concentrated on where I wanted to go instead, not letting him turn around, he found courage must faster.
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As for how he communicate this to me, it's harder to put a finger on. But maybe in the way he listens to my directions more closely? (As opposed to "not at all" because the flight instinct is louder than I am?) LOL
What a great answer!!!!! I could not agree more with you. You set him up for learning and when he needed help you gave it to him. Beautifully executed Kicki. That demonstrates the give and take that horse and rider-trainer can achieve in their connection with each other. That`s the kind of horsemanship that will lead us all to a better place.
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Thank you for that response. We all learned a very valuable technique and approach.
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All the best
Bud
We could always do a group skype chat??
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Love that Bud, set them up for learning.
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Brilliant Kicki, so connected to your horse that's lovely :D Knowing and feeling their slightest change of confidence is so important.
Mel
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Such an interesting thead !
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And since we're on that topic, do you think/have noticed, changes in the way your horse communicates with you vs the way he/she communicates with other horses/animals ?
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The reason i'm asking that is that for a couple of months now (since there's a lot of bugs) Dayka has developped a "behavior", when she wants me to scratch her behing the ears she pins them back really hard, pinches her lips, lowers her head by my legs and reaches for me if i don't understand what she's asking. When she shows that same behavior towards my dog, an animal or someone she doesn't know it's not the same at all, it's the last warning before she bites.
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It took me a while to figure it out so this thread made me wonder about that :)
Hi Lucie
I believe that Dayka is asking you for assistance when these bugs you talk about seem to too much for her to tolerate at the time. Because you have hands, she thinks you have the ability to ward-off the pesky devils and she is communicating those thoughts to you. If you have helped her with this problem before, it probably made her feel good and she would like more of the feel good from you, possibly when the bugs were NOT present. If this is the case, you have fallen into a wonderful opportunity, with her head in a lowered position to roll her crest from side to side with her nose almost touching the ground. This action will release many of the nerves that horse has in its neck and cause a euphoric reaction that they so enjoy. I believe that this area in a horse dictates whether or not they exhibit resistance toward something that was asked of him or her. I say this because I feel that horse carries much their resistance in the neck. If, with your hands, you manipulate a horse and how it might feel at a given time and you can do this on a routine basis, you have set up a perfect situation for learning and teaching.
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.Horses seem to learn easier and more quickly when they are relaxed and confident and feeling GOOD. When I enter into this scenario with a horse, one of my main objective would be to create the very best and safest environment possible. But the big key to my success is the horses RELAXATION.
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.Lucie, this is fun exercise and Dayka will love it. It can really create softness for the horse, and that will later set the stage for softness while riding.
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All the best
Bud
Love this thread~! Have to say form word go Woods has always told me what he wants/whats going on as has my dog and my pigeon! Majority of the time i know exactly what they means-from my dog warning me about a snake and wanting treats, to woods doing the same as your horse Lucie and wanting me to scratch where the bugs have made him itch and telling me he can't access something... it is just fascinating!
They don't just do this with body language, they are all pretty vocal too! And they have different noises for different things. I also love how they can empathize with us. I am sure we have all seen our dogs comfort us when we are uspet or ill, but my pigeon did the same-if i was upset he would come straight over and sit on my lap! A couple of times i have had an m.e crash when i've been with woods (it's pretty scary as i can't move or communicate, i just have to wait it out and get myself home) so i'v sat in his stable and he has taken watch. When it starts to pass, he will then resume munching. Males me so mad when people say 'it's just and animal'..... they have no idea!
High praise from you, Bud! I am lapping it up! LOL!:D
In the name of a reality check, I should point out that this is still work in progress. Some days are better than others and vice versa.
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On that note, we have had lots of bad days lately. :( After two weeks with a trainer (who works a lot after Monty's principles!) Mr. Smartypants came home a new horse and we had a great couple of weeks thereafter. However, al of a sudden we had a set back of a major kind and suddenly we are back at square one with the respect and forwardgoing parts.
Outdoor rides in company usually works quite well, but in the arena - outdoor or indoor - is a disaster area right now and he gets the upper hand.
I've tried the giddyup rope technic, but I am probably doing something wrong, because he couldn't care less about the rope flying. I'm thinking I've done too good a job in training him to ignore "scary" things! LOL!
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Consequently, *my* confidence as a rider and horse handler is shot to the bottom.
I am not giving up on him and will try what means I have, but I am not getting through to him and he is becoming more than I can handle on my own.
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Going back to basic ground manners now to see if that can sort things out. Otherwise I have booked a very well known and competent trainer (Eamon Hickey), not too far from me, who will take him on in August if all else fails.
Good morning Kicki, I am so-oo very sorry that you are experiencing what sounds like overwhelming difficulties with your boy. They do take US through rough waters at times.
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I would strongly suggest that you find an exercise in the round pen that he does well and execute it to the point that YOU are smiling about his performance. This is for You and your CONNECTION with him. NOTHING ELSE MATTERS at this point. Reconstruct that GO-AHEAD THINKING FOR BOTH OF YOU. My thoughts here are that his recent behavior is just ONE aspect of his connection with you. There is more than one way to get him to the point of giving you a BEHAVIOR EXTINCTION BURST; Possibly another horse in the round pen or the arena to breakdown his resistive thinking. Sometimes an insignificant movement in our body language can bring about a whole different thought stream in our horse. You are well educated the the arts of learning and I would approach this problem with your guy with that in mind. I always find some small aspect of my training that I might tweek a little when I review Monty`s training videos. I would think of this as small setback and that "I just have to get better", and you WILL.
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Your comment about you doing too good of a job desensitizing might give you pause to think about THAT approach to your training. I have always been of the belief that we need to find a balance between desensitizing and sensitizing for either one to be really effective. Think of it as a PUSH ME-- PULL YOU.
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My best to you my friend
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Hi Kicki
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Maybe add some inhand training and focus on your body language when asking him to do things.
so at walk ask with the dually to keep you with in a 4x4 walk beat, then leaning forwards just before asking for trot, halting with completely stopping your own feet square so he should copy. Asking him to turn left and right with just your head looking over your shoulder and no pressure on the dually or touching him to turn him. Then ask for trot extensions so trot with him, then extent your trot into a longer stride. Make it playful and ask for lots of stops in different places. It'll help strengthen your core too so when you're in the saddle you'll be able to use more body control when asking for things. .
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Mel
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Hi Kicki
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I just re-read your last post and was reminded of a recent video I saw featuring Dr. Andrew McLean and resistance with our horses. He advised a rider that was having difficulty with the Go-Button with her horse and to tap her horse on the side with her dressage whip twice instead of using her leg when asking the horse to move out. He was very adamant about the rider not using her leg when making the request. Dr. Mclean`s thoughts were that our legs have enough to do without using them for the go-ahead cue. He did say that all of this start-up, go-ahead learning would eventually morph over to using the legs when the resistance was a forgotten item.
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I thought this approach might help your horse with his learning to go-ahead. We all know that he KNOWS, but he is giving you just one opportunity to be a leader. Ha Ha
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Mel, the points that you addressed are excellent for all of us to use. The more subtle that we can be with our aids and cues, the better we and our horse will become as a unit.
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All the best to everyone.
Bud
Bud, Mel,
Thank you so much for all of your excellent advice! I have read and re-read them several times. :)
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Been absent from most things the past week due to taking in hay. We don't get many chances here - the summer weather is shifty and unreliable at best.
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Bud, I think you are spot on about him KNOWING but only giving me one chance! :D I have used the whip a bit like that already, so I will refine this technique according to what you wrote and try that for a while! :)
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I don't have access to a round pen but since he got aggressive last time I lounged him, I don't think I will try that just yet anyway.
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Before the hay, I worked him a bit in hand in the arena until he went along nicely at a walk.
Took quite a bit of persuasion! He was rather pissed with me at first, but I diverted his attention by going in a large circle including walking over three poles, which he likes to do, so eventually following me got to be a good thing.
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After 15-20 min. we could extend and shorten the stride. He probably would have trotted with me too then but didn't want to risk anything when things were working so well.
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Realize I need to do more of this, but other things have taken precedence. I am trying to be a lot firmer and more consistent in the stable as well. My riding buddy laughed and said I reminded him of Cesar Milan (the dog whisperer) with "calm assertive" and "discipline before affection". (I take that as a compliment!);)
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I have made the arena our finishing point after the treks. The gate is at the upper 1/4 of the long side, so I just let him walk straight across, turn left and ask for just a lap around the fence back to the gate, building up each time with some transitions stop/walk.
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This has payed of nicely as the last time there (two days ago) we could also do two volts without resistance and when he stopped the cue forward was minimal.:)
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I had to laugh too, because he was *almost* starting to trot on the long side (on his own volition - I didn't ask, nor did I interfere) and then he sort of caught himself and stiffened up a little as if he recalled his resolution not to trot in there.
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So I am getting a slow and minimal progress, but it *is* progress and I am happy with that.
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That said, the weather has been hot and he's been cooking under the fly rug and therefor very amenable when I come to take him inside, so we'll see what effect cooler weather will have on "Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde"!
Hi Kicki
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I will throw in a thought for you to consider but by all means throw it out if it doesn't apply.
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I was interested in the fact that things were good for two weeks after he came home then it 'went wrong'. It is one of the downsides of sending animals away for training.
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As you know I work with dogs and horses and often get asked if I 'take them in' but (a) didn't have premises to take horses and (b) didn't take dogs in because it wouldn't work most of the time. Why? Because I knew that I would send back the horse/dog and all would be well for a while then it would all start to go wrong again. Even if you go to the trainers yard to learn the techniques it still reverts back if the owner is not supported at home in the longer term
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I am guessing (and this is why I say throw it out if it makes no sense) that when he came back you were enthusiastic to follow the new techniques/your behaviour etc. to the letter but here's where human phenomenon kicks in. As things were going really well you may have started to slip in the odd bit of your old behaviours. Don't forget, it takes AGES for humans to change THEIR behaviour patterns (often much longer than animals). I see this a lot - I can always tell when I go back to see a client whether they have been able to get some practice in or whether they have reverted to old habits.
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You clearly (as you described) have a horse that does not want to lead. He is a follower. If you put an animal in a situation where he has to think "Are you running this show and dealing with this scary stuff? NO??? Oh God, that means I have to deal with it!! I'm not equipped to handle this..." So the animal becomes stressful and worried and confidence fails. If the animal looks to you and thinks "Ah she is running the show, I don't have to worry about it, I trust the leaders judgement" then we get co-operation.
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We tend to focus very much on the animals behaviour and analyse why and what etc etc. but by changing our own behaviour (as you are discovering) we change the horses behaviour but it HAS to be 24 hours a day all day every day for the very unconfident horse to truly believe that you are safe and worth listening to.
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What do you think?
Oh, you are spot on, Vicci!
Maria Zenniou, the trainer, said pretty much the same thing, and it's not like I hadn't figured that one out by myself already. :D
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It is a big part of a many-faceted problem, the root of which is that he got a nerve damage at three (Wobbler's syndrome symptoms but we were lucky and the nerves found new routes or grew back or whatever - it was never a conclusive diagnose.)Which in turn caused a complete stop of all physical training for two years and thereby the habit of having demands put upon him other than pure stable manners.
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The first winter he was also terribly sore and stiff as a board (literally!)over the fascia and muscles in the loins because his hind legs were all over the place, mainly in a "bouncing" uncontrollable way. Picking up the hind legs was almost impossible as he either waved them around without knowing he was doing it, or lost his balance when he stood on one leg. (Well, three, but you know what I mean!)
I massaged him a LOT that winter!
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During that time he built up a bad habit of turning aggressive when asked to do things he didn't care much about doing for the moment.
That was the beginning of our relation-problems.
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Skipping forward, we spent years long lining to build up physique and fitness as well as training aids/obedience etc. with some light riding in the woods gradually added.
As time passed the symptoms declined and all but disappeared, leaving us with nothing more than a weaker right hind leg and a caution from the vet to be careful.
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So when we finally got as far as starting the canter under rider, I chickened out. I was afraid to push him, not knowing what would happen, and I am too old to be thrown off bucking horses anyway! ;)
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That was why he was sent to this trainer in the first place. To get him cantering under rider.
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In hind sight, I should probably have done something like that much earlier, but done is done and problems aren't fixed by swimming around in a sea of regrets.
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So, sure, a lot of our problems stems from me not being enough of a firm and consistent leader. And it is a big thing trying to change that into ways that will work for both of us.
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I'd love to get Ann to come up here and help us, but I think she is super busy this summer and not sure I can carry the cost for several visits that I am sure it would have to be anyway. The thought is in my mind, though! :)
It's been a long journey for you Kicki and you done amazing things with him in very difficult circumstances.
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I hope I didn't come over as 'stating the obvious' or condescending, I know you have huge awareness of what is going on...I'm guessing though that you are used to my "thinking out loud musings" by know hahaha :-)
Vicci, I would never ever even think of you as condescending!!!
As for "stating the obvious" it's just very good to get my own musings confirmed - or,for that matter, a second opinion that corresponds with what I have already been told. (Which you had no idea about any way!) And if I hadn't realized it before, it would have been an eyeopener.
So I hope you never hesitate to think out loud, because I love it when you do!!! :) :) :) :)
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PS: I have actually been in touch with Ann. :) She might find her way up to us, so we'll see what happens then! :)
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And of course, Eamon Hickey just called to day and a space free for me if I was interested, but I had to decided right here and now. (When it rains, it pours, it seems!)
At a loss for what to do on such short notice, I decided to wait for Ann and if she says this is better handled by professionals, I will call Eamon back and put horse on waiting list.
Update!
Ann was unable to come but has arranged for me to meet up with Jenny Ahlroth - you have seen her in the latest lessons. :) I am super happy about this as our first session will be tomorrow evening.
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Funny thing, my horse has behaved better and better lately. If he behaves as well tomorrow as he did today, Jenny will wonder what the drama was all about. LOL!
We had a very nice time in the stable and he actually walked on with some energy in the arena, and - best of all! - even trotted in both directions without much fuss. :)
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It's far from perfect! We had a couple of "unscheduled" stops and fading forward going, but I didn't have to be particularly firm to get him going again, and while most of what is happening (in terms of tempo and energy) happens on his conditions, this is such a big step forward from 2.5 months ago. :)
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I'm beginning to wonder if some of it was caused by the other saddle? It fit him well all year, but maybe it got too narrow once he started to put on weight in June? I didn't switch saddles until the beginning of July. Then again, riding out has not presented any problems.
So, Jenny was here the other day, and first off I want to direct a huge thank you to her. :) She is just a wonderful person/instructor, and I think we got along great.
We will meet up again next time she is in town. :)
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Jenny observed Nalle while I brought him in and brushed off etc. and then we worked with the Dually halter both in the stable and in the outdoor arena.
Long story short, I learned a lot about how to use the Dually and how to improve my body language. (I'm too meek for wily horses! LOL!).
Main thing is to keep him on a safe distance, keep an eye on him at all times, and be very "black and white" until there is no more questioning of my decisions. Or, perhaps more accurately, more *respect* for them and me.
Right now I am not terribly important to pay attention to and that is what we are addressing now.
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I also got confirmation that what I have been doing is in the right direction, as is my suspicion that Nalle isn't relaxed mentally in the stable even if he stands still and seems calm.
As Jenny put it; the yawning seems to be caused more by stress than being relaxed - something I agree with but haven't been able to pinpoint before. It was great talking these things over with someone who thinks in the same way and has some of the answers I have been looking for!
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Since Nalle is terribly stubborn it took some time to get him to respond swifter to signals, but he did get it so now I need to strengthen the foundation Jenny has helped me create.
I can see a risk in me becoming too slack with him without realizing since I have a hard time asking really firmly, so I am pushing myself here to be more assertive and confident.
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Repeated yesterday in the arena, and of course we still have some way to go before this settles in and things improves, but it went great in so far that we pretty much picked up where we left off the day before. :)
Glad it went well Kicki. I had to smile when you said "Funny thing, my horse has behaved better and better lately." after you had booked Jenny.
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I hear this time and time again from horse and dog owners (only the day beofre your post a horse client said it to me!). It is as if the owner breathes a sigh of relief that "help is on its way" so the stress goes and lo and behold the animal feels better too :-)
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It is hard to be consistently firm Kicki I agree but the flexibility can come back again later "You have to know the rules to understand when and how they can be bent a little".
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Looking forward to hearing how it goes
Brilliant and spot on Vicci, much of the problems our horses experience are because of how we feel. That sigh of relief passes all around!
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Well done Kicki, you're both doing amazing!
Mel
x