Hey everyone, it's me again ! :)
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I need some advice because I can't decide what happened.
This afternoon I was leading Dayka to the working space of the field with just the Dually on and my leading rope. She was relaxed, I was relaxed, her field buddy was following us at a distance. A massive tractor drove past with hay bales and a couple of feeders on the trailer that made a lot of clinking noise and were just really big. We had walked by the exact same "monster" just yesterday and it went ok. But today Dayka literally jumped into my arms, but not in a cute way. Had i not been in the right spot and had anticipated that she'd get scared she would definitely have run me over and she nearly did.
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What I don't understand is that she was not restrained in any way, I was calm and holding my rope at the end, she had full open space on both side, in front of her and behind her to get scared but she came straight at me even as i took a couple of steps back, my friend who was far behind us said it looked like she was really aiming for me.
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And that's why I'm wondering if that's "just" spookyness, a lack of respect of my personal space on the ground or a case of overbonding with me.
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She is still a bit spooky with big stuff but she usually stops herself on the dually when something scares her when we're out. Just yesterday I asked her to stay between the hedge, a flapping tarp and an old tractor driving by and she just stomped a bit before relaxing, that's usually the spookier she gets when i'm around so I don't understand what happened today. She had done that only once before, the first time we got "caught" between a tractor with it's fork up and horses loose in a field.
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Today I reacted by immediately stepping into her space at the same speed as she'd stepped into mine, backed her up faster and longer than usual, then did a small "dually dance" till she relaxed and followed "normally". My thought process being, let's not forget who's allowed to make whose feet move. Was that the right reaction in your opinion?
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After that we went on to do what I had planned for the session and it went great, she was relaxed, responsive, and I got one of the best follow ups I've had from her in a long time after work like that.
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I mentionned overbonding with me. Do you think that might be an explanation here ? I'm the only one handling her, she let other people lead her fine if i'm around but she is very cuddly with me always following me around and coming to me when she's scared.
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Horse Behavior and Training
Spookyness, disrespect or overbonding ?
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Oh and I forgot to mention that she is in heat right now, probably not helping ...
Hi Lucie, can you confirm please what you mean by this bit..
"holding my rope at the end, she had full open space on both side"
Mel
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"at the end" = i mean there was as much slack in my line as it allowed so that she could move without restraint
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"open space" = there was nothing standing next to her that would stop her from moving (ie we were in the middle of the field)
Hi Lucie,
nothing bad, in my oppinion your mare trusts so much on you that se was looking for safety and where is the best place that by you?
My horse, Chattoo, 7 years old and 17 hands ( really a big one) makes sometimes the same. But having him now over 4 years I know him and I try to anticipate his reactions just to avoid some injuries. They don't want to do some bad things to us just looking to be safe.
One day, 3 years ago, in the quite same circumstances as described by you, a big tractor, on a road in the field, he did not want to go even one step further. After some seconds of thinking he pushed me with his head to be between him and tractor and than he went further without any problems!
They love us and have trust to us like children! The important thing is to be awared of their reactions and anticipate it to avoid any injuries because an impact with hundreds of kg is not quite nice for humans!
Milenco
Thanks for your reply Milenco.
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Reading you i'm thinking maybe i unvoluntarily triggered her reaction. I anticipated she'd get sacred so i stepped way out of her strike zone in front of her, which i normally never do (i stay by her nose). Seeing me in an unusual position could she have interpreted that as potential danger being around, therefore amplifying her reaction when the tractor did pass us ?
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Like you said, it's not particularly nice seeing this big pile of muscle jumping at you so if i did something wrong i need to be aware of it to avoid it in the future. :)
Hi Lucie,
it is very possible that you have triggered her reaction. Therefore is important for us to anticipate but remain calm and to breeth in stomach or some like that, as Monty says. Another gut advice comming basicly also from Monty is to use another natural feature of the horse to bring him in other direction in his mind. Show him something or change direction or anything like that. He will lose the focus on the "monster" in your case the tractor.
Take time to go through all Monty's lesson on the university. He explains wonderfull and gives so many gold like advices! I was 4 years ago also quite " green" (even I am 60 years old) and my horse a young one. But following his methods I had only good experiences with my Chattoo.
Milenco
Hi Lucie. Never be at the far end of your long line - always give your horse slack, but you need some too! That way, when they get it wrong they can run into it (how the Dually works) & you have time to react, put it over your hip. You'll see this as a thread through the lessons on the Uni. Your filly is responding to your mis- communication. It's ok.you need to study more lessons. You'll get there & so will she. Maybe your timing is a bit off or maybe you're not quite in the right place but you'll get there - keep persisting. The problems you have with your friends - it's their problem, keep the faith coz it works, and sooo much quicker when you get it right. Cheers, Jo.
If the noisy tractor was already behind you/had passed you when Dayka spooked, then running forward (which was where you happened to be standing) would be her natural reaction. She chose a flight path AWAY from the noisy tractor. I can't imagine she was 'aiming' for you or needed you in her moment of fear/self preservation.
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Often we anthropomorphize more than we should: believing our horses want or need to rely on us as safety nets when danger lurks. OR--we think they are going against us in some way--that there is a thought process going on, similar to how us humans think.
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I'm of the opinion that Dayka just took care of Dayka. She wasn't 'against' you---she was just 'more' for herself. And...the fact that she did not ram into you or step on you means that she saw you. She was very aware of your presence and was careful not to mow you down even when she was in flight mode.
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I don't think we should always look to correct or react to or analyze everything our horses do. Sometimes they just bolt--and we just happen to be standing in the way.
Thanks for your reply.
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Actually she didn't run into be because I jumped out of the way :D, but that aside I understand what you mean and I agree, I have actually tried to recreate the situation and turns out she does that when I change my position, if I don't move she gets a bitspooked but it's nothing like it was that day so basically... her biggest problem is ME !! ^^
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Got to work on my timing
Hi Lucie, hun don't try and recreate the situation, it will only reinforce in her mind there is something wrong especially if she is still spooking at it over and over. Work on the lessons for leading your horse in the sweet spot, this puts you in a safe position and also quicker response on the dually is she does spook. If you are focused on the tractor then she will be too. Ask the farmer if he can park it near you or if you can go to his yard where he parks it. Place a food bucket near the tractor, then get your horse. Incrementally walk her in a circle starting a distance from the tractor gradually moving the circle closer to the tractor. If she reacts then calmly move the circle back until she does not react and walk around at that distance, when she calms start to move the circle closer again, do not look or focus on the tractor. Focus on her and the circle. The end result her finding the food reward near the tractor when the circle gets close enough. Let her eat a few mouthfuls and ask her to walk another circle and back to the food bucket. Do this two more times and end the session. Next day or when farmer let you near the tractor ask for the tractor to be running. Repeat the exercise.
Remember to breath calmly.
Mel x
Hi Lucie,
I have to say that a similar thing happened to woody and me a while ago-in front of Chris Morris! Walking past a lorry with tarp on it that flapped and he just about missed going over my head! Lesson learnt. I have to be aware of where we are all the time as his safe place is walking right behind me. We have worked on the pointy game so I can point him to either side of me if he forgets where he should be. This is really helpful if we are walking somewhere there is only space on one side. He does try to dodge me when he is scared though so at least there is some awareness there-not that I want to push my luck!
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It's lovely having a horse that feels that safe with you so you are doing a great job in that respect! Just make sure she knows that a bit of space is safe too (I know I need to work on this too!)
Jess x
Hi Mel, this might be a case of english not being my mother tongue :)
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when I say "recreate" I meant, I stopped her in the middle of the field, stepped out in from of her, then behaved the same way I did that day with the rope and she came right by my side fast but camly this time. I wouldn't put myself or her in danger by waiting for a tractor and trying to trigger the reaction ^^ I'm not that crazy don't worry ;)
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About this tractor business, i've tried distracting her on a couple of occasions and it worked 50/50. I keep thinking I need to work on m timing and being more aware of my own body language around her.
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I also have to say, she has been a lot cooler since I begun the process of starting her to the saddle. I started on the day after I posted this and i think the routine of it is helping her relax when we're out (I ride 10-15 minutes in the work space of the field then we go out for a relaxed walk). I feel like it's reinforcing her trust in me,
is there a tractor you can walk her by that stationary? So you can make tractors a good thing. have had to do the same thing with the mounting block. just go near it, eventually beside it and give lots of cuddles and fuss and then when she's relaxed move away. Just so she associated it with feeling good?
Yeah there are several that I walk her by everyday.
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My friend can even ride by, stop and start with one of his tractors and she's fine with it, and other times she'll get spooked. I'm trying to identify what's different the times she gets spooked but it hasn't been consistant enough so far. For regular size farm equipment I just try to make it like it's no big deal, i'll make her graze where they park their stuff or where they drive by and most of the time she's fine with it. It's the bigger unusual stuff that scare her.
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It's the same with cars, sometimes i'll walk her on the road and nothing can scare her even big trucks with trailers, and sometimes she'll react just hearing a car approaching. I'm concerned because I know how to handle her on the dually and she respects it but I've seen how she takes the upper hand when someone else is leading her and i'd like not to be the only one able to lead her at some point. But for now it's just not safe so I keep working on showing her as many different things as i can and get her to relax.
But right now, from watching her behavior with my friend who's helping me with her, I get the feeling that it's not that she's not scared of these things, it's that she trusts me enough to follow me past them, but when i'm not the one leading, she tries to get away from the scary thing and I have to step in and calm her down.
Hi Lucie, understand you fully now!
She's looking to you as a leader, but others she is not, which is just her natural instinct to respond to the Energies that we give off when handling her. To you she knows you will protect her and she trusts you to look to you for guidance in new circumstances or something that might spook. Others however she is not trusting hence the need to take flight. It they think she will spook and panic then their energy levels are up even before a spooky object appears, she will feel this and will react accordingly.
Have you tried to explain to the others who help about what you're doing re Monty's methods of calming the horse and shown then how to use the dually???
Well done by the way, the last bits you posted really show she is trusting you!!
Mel x
Hi Mel, it's hard to explain stuff sometimes, i'm glad it's a bit more clear :)
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Yes i explained to him how I worked with her and he's learning to read her. She can be very intimidating in her attitudes when she gets worked up and you don't know her but they're starting to trust each other and I can see her slowly changing too as he gets better timing with the dually. I'm thinking about getting him to do exercises with her that I know she does well like the plastic bags on a stick that would get some small reaction from her but in a relatively safe environment for him to learn to calm her down (with me there of course). With me she doesn't react at all anymore but i think with him we could get some movement that he could handle.
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Today we did another session with me on her back, the "monster tractors" were back... she was a totally different horse, I could see her getting tense but I was speaking to her calmly, creating some contact with the bit everytime I felt her feet move and she barely moved when they passed us so I think we're on the right track, I just need to be patient with her.
I think you're doing a great job Lucie :-)