Hello.
I'm new in this Uni, but I can tell you that when I bought my horse Shilo, my farrier said to me that it would be better for him to go out on to the pasture and work there on Shilo for the first couple of times, so I had Shilo just on a lead rope and my other three horses were around sniffing the farrier and making trouble whilst the farrier worked, but the point is that Shilo stood for the farrier very nicely the first two times, because he felt relaxed because he was not out of his comfort zone, and he had his friends around him.
Now I take Shilo out to the farrier , either in the stable or just outside, depending on the weather, and I don't have any problems with that.
Could you maybe get someone to take your other horse and stand with Bente whilst the farrier works, or could the farrier go out and work in the paddock? Just until your horse feels safe?
I'm not so experienced to tell you what is wrong, but maybe it would help with the farrier.
Hope you can get some more expert help from the people her in the Uni, they have been so helpful to me.
Best regards from Dionne- Danmark.

Hi Nika
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It is one of the reasons why I follow Kelly Marks advice to either have one horse (not ideal) or three, never two! Two tend to over bond and you get all the problems you describe. Seperation anxiety is both traumatic for the horse and dangerous for you because, as you have discovered, they become "hysterical" and will do everything they can to get back where it is safe (including getting you out of the way!)
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I agree with Dionne but I would go one step back - try working with Bente's feet yourself in the field first (before you bring in the farrier) to see how she behaves.
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Beofre we go into lengthy descriptions of how to deal wiht seperation anxiety, I wonder how long it will be before she is integrated into a herd, will it be soon? If so, can her feet wait until then do you think?

Sorry, forgot to say, if you want Bente to come in to have her feet done, bring the other horse in too :-) These are of course temporary solutions but it's a starting point.

Hi Dionne and welcome to the Uni,
Thanks for your thoughts and ideas on the situation. I have already discussed these things my farrier. Luckily she is both a friend and very understanding. I've already had to cancel two appointments with her.
Kind regards,
Nika

Hi Vicci,
I completely agree with Kelly Marks advice and the thing is that when we moved her on the 31st there were three horses, not two. The next day when I went to see Bente they had put the third horse back into the herd. Hysterical, yep, that would be the best way to subscribe her behavior!

I definitely plan on working with her feet myself for at least a week, longer if necessary, before my friend/farrier comes out but honestly her feet are the least of my worries right now. She's barefoot and they can wait a few more weeks.

Originally she was supposed to be integrated after a couple of days, then it was going to be done the following weekend but only if we had at least two dry days. Of course it rained for nearly two weeks nonstop. This last week it's been mostly dry but at or below freezing temperatures. (They want to open up one of the pastures for the herd so they are focused on fresh grass rather than Bente, thereby making it a safer transition for her) At this point it is going to be at least another week, if not two because it is supposed to snow or rain everyday for the next 7 to 10 days.

My main concern is dealing with the separation anxiety because I actually need to transport her to a trainer in five weeks. She's always loaded beautifully before but I can only imagine how traumatic that will be for her under these circumstances.

I welcome any advice you have if you have the time for it.

Hi Nika
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I sympathise - the weather is a pain here too! A couple of final questions please Nika, how does the other horse (the one that's left behind) behave when Bente comes away from him? Is the other horse male or female and how old? Thanks

Hi Vicci,

Ah yes, Dacapo...a gelding but I don't know his age. I have not met his owner yet but will be contacting her in the next couple of days.

Dacapo also has a bit of SA but not quite as bad I think...he paces the fence when she is in sight but that first day he was happily grazing when I brought her back from the barn. I do know that he is taken to the barn everyday and I haven't heard about any issues.

I do know that Dacapo has not been there that long either but had some problems in the herd. He is recuperating from a pretty nasty forehead/face injury. What I was told is that his feet had been trimmed too short right before being integrated into the herd and since he was sore and a bit lame he was attacked.

Thanks,
Nika

Hi Nika
How big is the herd they are in?
How are they integrated?
Mel
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Hi Mel,

That is the problem, she is not yet integrated into the herd. She is in a pasture with one other mare. (The third horse was a gelding, made a mistake in my previous post)

The herd she/they will be going into is a mixed herd of +/- 25 horses. Once we have a minimum of 2 days dry weather they open up one of the pastures and move Bente (not sure what the plan is for Dacapo) in.

I hope to have a meeting with Dacapo's owner tomorrow to 1. Find out more about her and 2. Get permission to halter and hold her so I can work with Bente.

I met with Dacapo's owner today and the picture is a bit more clearer now.

Dacapo is 7 yrs old, almost 8.

Bente is the alpha mare in her little heard of two. She seems to be less stressed when Dacapo leaves the pasture than when I take her out.

Now that I have permission to have someone lead and/or hold Dacapo while I work with Bente I am ready to see what we can accomplish to work through this problem.

Ok Nika, well done.
Something that you might want to try that will help the separation issue. When the two mares are in the field, have Bente in the halter, dually preferably if not then put the lead rope onto the cheek piece which will help with control if Bente doesn't want to listen. Get Bente to face the other mare and ask Bente to back up away from the mare. Reward her then bring her back to the mare. Repeat 3 times then let her off again when she's standing next to the mare. Day 2 repeat day 1, but then turn her away from the mare stopping as soon as you feel the slightest raise in energy from Bente. Wait for a relax then reward and walk back to the mare. repeat 2 more times. The idea is to make sure you get that relax each time. Day 3 take her a bit further away, day 4 and so on. Always reward her at the end with being with the mare. When you start to feel her relax more and more with you the further away you get, then aim to take out of the gate, just a few steps making sure you close the gate. Relax, reward then go back in the gate. repeat 3 times. I say this as most horse get the gist of what you're asking within 3 times. It's a slow process, but if you start now you should be able to manage the taking away for training issue a bit easier.
Mel
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Thank you Mel!

We always work with the dually. Bought her first one two weeks after I got her. I just bought her a new, black one since the red one barely fits now. :)

Ww will start with your advice tomorrow. I am fine with slow, I just want to help her get over this in the best/safest way possible for both of us.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again,
Nika

Hello Nika and Mel and greetings from the USA. It doesn`t rain over there does it? Ha ha. Nika I can see what your facing with your horse. Horses tend to go into a different mindset with SA and we all have to be careful when that happens. Mel, that plan that you described to Nika is beautifully thought out and should help Nika`s horse down the line when she needs to transport. Good luck Nika and stay safe. Regards Bud

Thanks Bud and look forward to hearing how you get on Nika. xx

Hi Bud,

Haha, only a little bit of rain. ;) Having lived my first 35 years in many parts of the US and the last 14.5 here in the Netherlands I have to say the amount of rain we get here is ridiculous. I grew up in Houston so I know all about the hard and fast rains they get, but I much prefer that to the constant drizzle made worse by strong winds that we get here.

Bente most definitely has a different mindset since the move. It took me totally by surprise. We will get past this, slow and easy baby steps all the way.

Thank you for your kind thoughts.

Nika

Hi Mel,

Something came up yesterday here at home so I didn't have the chance to get to stable before everyone was already gone.

Today hubby and headed to the stable with a plan. It never fails that the proverbial spanner gets thrown into the works.

Grabbed the dually and longline for Bente and Capo's halter and lead rope and headed for the pasture. Surprise! An 18hh Hanovarian/Oldenburger cross gelding is now in the pasture with the two mares.

We saw some interesting behavior from Capo today. She absolutely hates for the gelding to get near Bente. She runs straight for him, teeth bared and takes a good bite of him. She did this twice in the span of less than a minute.

Once we were able to get Capo's halter on I put the dually on Bente and backed her up a few steps. Absolutely no issue whatsoever. Did this three times and Bente was relaxed the entire time. Capo was a little antsy but not too bad.

Since this went so well I went ahead and moved on to step two. The first two times went well, although Capo was a bit more restless. The third time went well, got about 50 meters away, stopped and then comes the gelding. This made both Bente and Capo very nervous. It took a while since the gelding was busy sniffing and drooling. Ugh! As you can imagine Bente had no interest in standing still and tried several times to bolt and/or go through me. But I held my ground and waited until Bente relaxed before bringing her back to Capo.

All in all not too bad and we've made a bit of progress.

Nika

OoooOO Nika, you have a lead mare!! Love it when this happens, you see who really is in control of the herd :D
This is normal larger herd interaction, but you can calm it. You need to let Bente, Capo and the new boy know you are the leader. Put the dually on Capo as she is showing the lead in this. Do some ground work with the dually before letting the new horse in. You need to be in the field before the new horse. When the new horse comes in, send him away big time. Spin your rope and send him right away from Bente and Capo. Keeping Capo behind you controlled by the dually. Do not let her pull away from you. She shouldn't as she'll see you're taking the lead and will respectfully remain behind you. If she wasn't on the dually she'd join in with the sending away. What you will be communicating is that you are the leader of your herd and are protecting them. Be upright in your body, eyes on eyes with the new boy and a firm don't you dare look on your face. He should stay away at first then start to make circles around your space similar to Join Up, actually it is Join Up in the herd and you'll see all the signs you would in a round pen but you must watch for them. When he's gone right away from you, remove the pressure but remain standing erect and look away, but keep him in your sight. As soon as he tries to come to you, send him away again. Once you are happy you are seeing signs of join up, start to relax more. See how Capo is behaving before you take her off the dually, if she has been calm and listening to you all the time you'll be able to take the dually off, but it's important that you remain the leader for at least another half an hour with your body presence. If Capo decides to chase him off, tell her off and send her away from him. Ensure all of them are listening to you before you leave the field, then watch for about half an hour. You'll see a change in the aggression. It will still be there but not as drastic as you got! It'll take a week or so to settle down after that. Main point is you're protecting the herd and they need to see it to know they are safe.
If anyone asks, say you've had some herd interaction advice from someone who teaches this to owners with larger herds.
Mel
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This is a good opportunity to see Join Up the horses way, you'll see the locking on of the ear, the head dropping, circles and licking and chewing! Enjoy!

Beautifully said Mel!! What a great learning experience for folks that have never seen this happen before. This exactly where Monty got his start.
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Love it! Bud

:D, sorry for the delay Bud. Thank you, I wish we could all see and experience what Monty first experienced when he took his stand against non violent training. The horses are wonderful teachers too ;)
Mel
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I can't believe it's been over 6 months since I posted. I guess I have just been too busy with Bente and helping some barn mates with their horses. ;)

Once Bente went into the heard improvements in her behavior but the drastic change came once we got back from the weekend with the trainer. Dacapo was put into the herd while we were away and bonded with a gelding and wanted absolutely nothing to do with Bente. She even chased Bente away from the gelding. It seems that the majority of Bente's issues were related to Dacapo. (Capo was also new to the yard, had never been in a herd before, had only been there a few days when she became injured and had to be separated from the herd and that was just a few days before Bente joined her in the pasture.)

We have come a long way over the last 6 months...We go for walks on the street, she stands still for bathing, first rug and first single were of absolutely no concern to her at all. She follows me loose around the yard and into the barn and most days she will come to me from the pasture, and she tries to put her halter on by herself.

The next step is double line lunging but that will have to wait until I get back on my feet after knee surgery on the 5th. It will be a few months before I can start with that but in the meantime daily cuddles with her will have to do. :)

With kind regards,
Nika

Good morning Nika and thank you for the update. The one grand phenomenon that horses have over humans is the element of time; it is non-existent for them and very important to us. We all struggle with this while our horses look at us and say "WHATS THE BIG DEAL?" You seemed to have won the understanding of your horses and they you.
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Congratulations with your success.
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.All the best
Bud

Thank you Bud!

People at the yard are amezed at the change in her and the fact I remain so calm if she happens to be in a "mood" or when she had a "choke"episode. All I can tell them

is that it would only make things worse and stress her even more. Then they start to get it. Some have even asked me to help them with their own horses. I love the on their faces when I can get their horses to do what they could not, but the best part is the look of pride, joy and accomplishment when I tell it's their turn and they too succeed. :)

Kind regards,
Nika

How wonderful Nika, and so wonderful that you are inspiring others without 'forcing' it down their throats!

Brilliant Nika! There is the horse whisperer there in you, keep it going you're making a difference!
Mel
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After reading the comments that all of you shared, I could`nt help but think about Monty and when His original idea of NON-VIOLENCE became a STONE that was cast in the violent POND OF HORSE TRAINING. The RIPPLE EFFECT that that stone caused is being felt all over the world today and our horses are rejoicing. Take note of the continuity of each ripple and how it effects the it`s neighboring area. When it reaches the opposing shore-line, it caresses the banks of a new world and settles in until another stone is found and tossed - the next ripple has its beginning.
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.Thank you all for YOUR CONTRIBUTIONS and being part of this monumental RIPPLE EFFECT.
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My best to you all
Bud