Hi, I just joined this forum today. I had previously hired a trainer who supposedly did "natural horsemanship." She ended up terrifying my horse and whipping her in the round pen before I fired her. Wish I had done things differently. Now I'm here looking for a truly non-violent approach. My question is whether I should take my mare right back in the round pen and try join up or whether what was just done to her there means I should begin differently. Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks!
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Is your horse terrified of you or the round pen now?
Good morning 1ecofarmer,
I'm not sure if this story will help you or not but here goes.
A little over two years ago (BEFORE I MET MONTY'S METHOD) I was training my filly and had her ready for the saddle.
My husband did not want me to be the first one on her back so I hired a young "professional" rider to be her first. It was a disaster.
Star was so afraid it was unbeleivable. She was abused and wild when I rescued her so you can imagaine, it was 100 steps back and I had to start all over.
That is when I found Monty and his way. I did not have a dually at the time but I read and read the part in his book about join-up/follow-up.
When I brought her into the round pen she was shaking and it took all of my knowledge of horse behaviour to get her in there again.
I did Monty's way of releasing her and driving her, waited for the signals and then we got join-up and follow-up.
To be sure I did it a few times more over the next few days.
She was very thankful that we did this. She became calm again and we haven't looked back.
Once you regain her trust and keep it she WILL remember you and your kindness, I promise.
Horses may not forget easily but they are very forgiving. Do not be discouraged, do the join-up with confidence, knowing you can succeed. Have a positive mind before you start.
Someone on the UNI had a brillliant idea. They practised in the round pen (without a horse) everything that one would do to get join-up/follow-up. Maybe you can try that.
And watch as many times as you can the videos about join-up/follow-up so they are imprinted on your mind.
I am very happy you have found Monty. You will learn so much.
Some of Monty's videos on youtube under MONTY'S CHANNEL you will see him doing join-up/follow-up with some real wild ones who have been very badly treated and he and Kelly Marks were successful with thier join-ups.
You CAN do it and welcome to the UNI.
Have a good day :)
Star, I wish this were like facebook and I could "LIKE" your comment :) Where do I find this "Monty's Channel"? I would very much like to watch those videos! ty!
Monty's videos are on Horse and Country TV, they're easy to find. There are 3 different sections to watch, they are a wonderful resource because they deal with so many different problems.
Hi corbengra,
I watch horseandcountry as well, I have it saved in my favourites.
And I have found so many more on the youtube.
I have subscribed to it as well.
If you go to youtube then type in Monty's Channel they should all come.
They are great and I learn lot's from it.
Hope you do too.
Ronda
Hi 1ecofarmer - as Star has confirmed this is not an unfamiliar story. I am so pleased you fired her promptly. Although your mare will always remember this bad experience she will respond to you and will learn to trust you again. Star's advice is great as she has been through a similar bad experience with her nervous, little mare. If you have a dually halter I would just start leading her around a bit with the dually with lots of stroking and encouragement for good responses. Then, yes, I would take her calmly back into the round pen, orientate her to it slowly like Monty does in his lessons on join up here on the Uni site and also on youtube. Watch as many of the videos as you can first as he deals with different horses and that is important. Every horse will be a little different. If your mare has been scared you shouldn't have to be to forceful when you send her out but do keep her going until you see most of the different signs - inside ear twitched towards you, licking and chewing, smaller circles, head lowering etc. Hopefully it will be successful and when you have join up give her lots of encouragement then see if you also have follow up. There are still so many trainers out there who can do so much damage to horses. 12 months ago I helped a fellow adult rider in my club to trailer load and train her new 4 year old gelding. Unfortunately like many of us she hadn't owned a horse for many years as she had been busy with her children therefore she was relatively inexperienced with ground work. Her new horse had no ground manners at all, was very pushy, very stubborn and refused to back up - something we only learnt once he was successfully in the trailer - there is an old forum thread from me on this so I need to get to the current point. This girl joined the Uni and intended to do join up with her new gelding but then she started having lessons with a fairly forceful, tradtional type instructor. I backed out as I didn't wish to totally confuse her horse and she was happy with her instructor. Now 12 months later her horse is not only still difficult on the ground but now attacking her on the ground - turnimg trying to double barrel her and trying to bite her if he can. He was stubborn before but showed none of these tendencies. He is a beautiful horse but this instructor has done so much damage. Yesterday we shared a group lesson and initially her horse refused to go into canter and mucked up - the instructor had her circle him in a small circle (good) but also whip him hard with her riding whip and kick him really hard with her new spurs. I hated watching this but her horse did finally canter beautifully. To my horror when the owner pulled him up at the end of a number of very successful canters the instructor went over to her horse grabbed him by his reins and started hitting into him with the whip!! No wonder he is now fighting back! He did everything right so she should have either stayed away and said well done or gone up and stroked the horse and told him what a good boy he was. No wonder he is now fighting back - whatr else can he do? I certainly wouldn't have let her touch my horse like that and am now very reluctant to continue with our fun group lessons. The girl who owns the horse did listen to me and agreed to discontinue with that instructor. Afterwards we tried a join up with her horse for the first time which was successful to a point. See my question to-day on forum. We should all be prepared to tell professional horse people to leave our horses alone if we do not condone their methods. Well done for firing your so called 'expert' so quickly.
Thanks for all the encouragement and for sharing your stories Star and MaggieF. My horse has become mistrustful of me again (as she was when I got her a couple of months ago), but not exactly terrified. I've ridden her a couple of times, but not taken her into the round pen. She is back to the same restless anxiety she had when I first got her, but nothing horrible. I'm certain I could get her into the round pen, and also that she would be anxious. But it sounds like join up might be the best way to address it, assuming I can do it right.
Also, this trainer has also been our farrier, but I'm thinking I need to find a new one. If I'm to get my mare's trust back I can't have this person around and asking my horse to make herself vulnerable to the very same person who hurt her. Do you all agree?
I definately agree with that and I hope you find one you really like.
It took me three tries but it was worth it, Danny is great with horses and Star does not trust easily but she lets Danny do what needs to be done.
Star had an injury to her left back fetlock when I got her and there has been a bulge there for a long time.
Danny's patience and guidance is what has hlped. There are some good ones out there just ask around and you will find one.
I'm very happy that your little horse will now be safe.
Have a good day,
Ronda
1ecofarmer I agree find a new farrier and trainer. Good Job noticing the problem quickly. MaggieF & star have some interesting information on this. Thanks for the Pointer on how to find Monty's You Tube Channel.
Kelly's remark that not everyone has a round so moving the feet is the way to go. Since your horse was hurt in the round pen maybe you could do some ground work with her in a small paddock. The lessons with Florian & Monty on the UNI are real interesting.Great in firing the person and let other know so they don't have the same experience with this person
@corbenga, you can watch Monty's channel on your computer:
http://v.handc.tv/services/player/bcpid966673314001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAAt_GSY7E~,dLeXC1YvD68scJFZ4fBX7kn3v-hAeV8e&bclid=923283542001&bctid=904448427001
1ecofarmer, you can check out the Big Brown lessons.
:(
:(
Above we have little sad faces from Fiona Fleurie who was the horse owner I mentioned in my above response. Apologies again fiona - please read my more detailed apology under "join up in a grassy field/paddock?"
Above thread should read "join up in a small paddock/field which has lots of juicy grass"
ecofarmer, I have an issue with my mare, Dee in the barn. We have a small little barn and she gets VERY nervous in it (probably mainly due to my own tension) Anyways, what I've done with her now is approach and retreat type thing. Bringing her to the barn door, letting her smell, walking away. I did that a few times, and then progressed into going in and straight out. After not very long, I had her standing in the barn while I brushed her for just a few minutes. I know it's time consuming, but depending on how afraid your horse now is of the round pen, maybe this would be helpful for your horse to see it's not all that bad? (I too, am a new member, so welcome to this site! I love it so far)
oops...ps, I'm having a hard time finding the horse and country tv site? It tells me that it doesn't exist (I google it, it comes up with a list, I click on the site and that's what I get :( )HELP! :)
Just found it on Facebook and there's an apology for the website being down...must be the problem
cornbenga try this: http://www.montyroberts.com/latest-news/watch-monty-roberts-videos-on-the-horse-country-tv/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=watch-monty-roberts-videos-on-the-horse-country-tv
~sigh~ I clicked on it, opened the page, but the video won't load....must be a setting on my computer. I have no problem watching any of his other videos...oh well, I'll just keep trying! ty!
I'll try too corbengra. Sorry your having such a hard time!
@corbenga, I'm having the exact same trouble, I try to get into it, it says Problem loading page, it was fine before.