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Horse Behavior and Training

Riding down the toilet!

Hello!

So, me and my OTTB mare Merci have been together for 4 years, and have been following Monty's methods for 7 months. She has flourished in some areas, like ground manners, and the Dually really has helped her balking and disrespect problems.
Slowly, and gradually, though, her performance while riding has declined. It has gotten to the point where I can hardly get her to trot, let alone canter (it takes me at least and entire lap around the arena before she accepts my cue to canter), and overall while riding she just seems lazy and unhappy. She is not sore; she was from the saddle, but we've removed that from the equation and ride with a bareback pad now. Just today I decided to Join-Up with her after a particularly difficult session, and she trotted/cantered beautifully, no signs of pain. Same during long-lining, moves nice, and no signs of pain.
I ride in my Dually (the sweet iron bit I ordered from the Uni shop hasn't come in yet), and I really try to be gentle and calm as possible. It is so hard to remain calm and happy when she does not do a thing I say!
I do have a Giddy-Up rope, and use it in moderation because she seems to be getting desensitized to it.
So to sum up the issues:

-Will not back willingly/refuses to go in hallway to be schooled to back
-Does not move forward easily, requires great amount of effort
-Slows down constantly
-Breaks pace constantly
-Dead-sided
-Will not stand to be mounted

And yet she does everything I ask of her while schooling on the Dually.
Any pointers? I'm getting really depressed about all these issues, I really don't know what to do about it.

emlaw
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Is there any way you can get a Monty trained person to come and assess you while you are riding? Sometimes it takes a fresh pair of eyes to notice tiny things we cannot see outselves. Or failing that, get someone to video you riding and then sit and scrutinise the footage to see if you can spot anything at all. I never knew I rode with a driving seat (polishing the saddle with my butt) or that my centre of balance was out because I rode with my head too far forward until a good instructor pointed it out to me. Then I rode in an indoor arena with mirrors and it was true, I could see it for myself, even though I was totally unaware.
You say she was sore from the saddle and it has now been removed - but is there any chance she could still have some residual issues, such as muscle wastage or tension in her back which may have been caused previously by the old saddle? Do you have access to a good equine chiropractor who could double check this for you? From the sound of it her issues could possible stem from either a back issue or something that you might be doing without realising it when you are riding - I am not trying to imply that you are a bad rider or anything like that, it could be something very subtle and if she is a sensitive mare she might pick up on it very easily.

Nadine
Hello!

Right. I have had videotapes of us riding (I don't have a Youtube account, and I'm afraid I don't know how to upload them), and I couldn't see anything wrong. It could be back soreness, but she was a riding school lesson horse before I got her - she had ill-fitting saddles on her all the time, and that never seemed to cause problems. But, it could all be coming out now as she ages.

emlaw
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You could be right - I would definitely get a back expert in to check her over for any stiffness or old back injuries, she may need some massage therapy or some other treatment. Years of ill fitting saddles could have caused some problems. I had an ex riding school horse who was a bit dead sided too - it took a lot of reschooling to remind her of the cues, but I got a good instructor to help me. I was over riding her to compensate for the lack of impulsion, hence the driving seat, and the instructor took us both back to basics which helped a lot. But if your mare is working well on the ground I would check out her back first before doing anything else.

Nadine
Hello!

Thing about that....I really don't have the money for a expensive vet to come and check her out. So...I don't know.

Kicki -- Sweden
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Money is always a big issue where horses are concerned. Someone's dad once expressed it as: "that black hole into which all wealth disappears." :D
.
Is she still working much better when ridden bareback compared to in a saddle?
In that case I would suggest saving up money for a good saddle fitter to come out and help you - or taking your horse to where you can test several different saddles while someone who REALLY knows what they are doing looks at you.
.
Meanwhile, keep long lining her to build her back muscles and sensitivity to your aids (going over poles and up-and downhill is great for this!) As well as riding her bareback while someone else is holding the lines.
Massage is great too. Backs take a while to build back up after injury and their pain memory can sometimes stop them from performing.

emlaw
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In addition to Kicki's good advice, I would still suggest that it is worth saving up to get a vet or chiropractor out too. It will cost money, but you can ring and check first how much it the cost is for a single visit to diagnose any problems, then you can take it from there. Hopefully they can rule out any physical issues, at least you will then have peace of mind that she is not in pain and you can start to work on riding.

Nadine
Hello!

Don't have a saddle at all anymore! Yes, she is moving better than when she was under saddle.

*sigh* - over the summer I worked 2 jobs. I own a parrot, and his vet visit last month cost me $322. Buying Monty's equipment has totaled another $160, and general board is $300. I have the wiggle room of roughly $2. I'll have to save a loooooooooooooooong time before I can afford a visit from the vet/chiropractor.

Sasafras
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Hi there,yey,money always tight when you have animals.....I was reading with interest your difficulties and wonder if you ever ride her out? School horses are bored to tears.You could be surprised if you just go for a nice walk with her. All the best!

Nadine
Hello!

I do love to trail ride, and I try to as much as possible, but I am not allowed to unless someone knows where I am, and is at the barn(that is my mother's way of trying to make sure if I fall off and die suddenly, at least someone knows where the body is), so we haven't been out for a while. Defiantly top of the priority list for me, if only someone would stick around the barn for a while...

bbarner4628
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Dont get down on ur self about this i have a mare that took me almost 3 year to treavh to canter i had her check out and thing did get better she was out and many place that she never showed any pain for and i got her a new saddle with also help... but i think what wirk for her is i have another horse and had my sister ride with me and let the 2 horses play and race each other and that how she leaned how to canter... reallu that how she learn everthung walk trit and canter i was just on her to feel me in the saddle but never did much will i was up there.. we did this little at a time so she did not get bored with me.. but she loves to race with my other horse and over weeks i added legs and so one and now she can canter when i ask.. she also had a hard time in corner keeping balance so she always broke... its a lot of work getting a horses that as been use alot or one that no nothing and been beat.. but dont give up on her.. dont get down on ur self. They to get a friend out to help u just ride and try to have fun with her. And over time it will all work it self out.. if she was a schooling horses my guess is she just bored with her job and she need to be reminded it can be fun. She may also be out in her should hip or back.. and if u can get that fix that better for both of u but we all kniw how money tight.. bytvtalkbto people a the barn and call around she huw much something like that is it maybe cheaper then u think i was for me... just dint give up on her or get down on ur self..

bbarner4628
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Sorry for spelling i was on my nook.

bbarner4628
Hello! 100 lessons completed 150 lessons completed 200 lessons completed

Talk to people at ur barn.see how much it is to have a looked at it may be cheaper then u think.

MaggieF, Melbourne - Australia
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Hi Nadine - how old is your mare? Your first five symptons due tend to suggest that her back is sore and given this she is no longer willing for you to mount her. You can teach her to stand still with the dually and do this next to the mounting block but it is pointless correcting this naughty habit while she still has the other problems. It is expensive owning a horse and sometimes people forget this thinking that the initial expense of buying a horse is the main expense. In reality the purchase price is a very tiny compared to all the other expenses we have. You may find that a physio or chiro is less expensive than a vet. My excellent physio charges me $70 for 30 minutes of work on Tricka's back so he is substantially less expensive than the vet. If it is her back then she does need to have it checked. Maybe raise a loan from your parents.

Rudi - Pratteln, Switzerland
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Dear Nadine
Some additional ideas. Be patient and try to resolve one problem after the other.
Standing still: you have to be very (!) strict, do not allow the minimal movement and don't think that when it works one day it will work the next day or at another place.
Canter: I am using the "kissing" noise only for starting the canter. If the horse learns it on the ground it will be very helpful in the saddle.
Often things can be managed better with two trainers. The second "trainer" may be a person interested in the method without a vast experience. Examples: One person mounts, the other corrects moving. One person in the saddle, the other on the ground to start the canter (horse free without lines). Make small steps, there is no hurry.
Good luck. Rudi

Nadine
Hello!

Chiropractor appointment set for this Saturday.
.
Had some major misbehavior out on the trail today. She was, of course, being lazy and desperately trying to turn back to the barn the entire way down the trail. After we got to the half-way point, I gave up trying to get her to relax and have a good time and we turned around. I decided it would be a good time to trot. BAD IDEA! She started speed-trotting and would NOT slow down or acknowledge me at all. After a 1/4 mile of trying, control was regained. Asked for a canter. Also a BAD IDEA! She again took off, galloping for home. I completely lost all control and had to do a one-reined stop. Worked her a bit up and down the dirt road, until the trotted and cantered relatively calmly.
*sigh* Always something new with the Diva....

MaggieF, Melbourne - Australia
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Well done, Nadine, for riding her through this. Naughty horse - it seems you have solved your trot canter problem to some extent but I am pleased you have the chiropracter coming. If she does try to take off like this again circle her early in the peace while you still have control and keep on doing so until she calms down and will walk for you. Annoying I know but they do finally realise that if they take off they simply get circled. Try not to allow her to trot or canter in the homeward direction. This is a bad habit for any horse and she has obviously been allowed to do it in the past so you will need to train her out of it.