Hi thehomemadehorse - my gut feeling is that you are not using the dually correctly and if your horses nose was dented it sounds as if you do have it too low on her muzzle. Have you watched a number of different videos that demonstrate how you use the dually in different situations? There are so many here on the Uni sight and also on ' horse and country tv - UK - the Horsemanship Essentials series with Monty and Kelly Marks' . A jerky action on the lead rope is more effective in some situations than a straight pull and the release is the reward. Best to watch a number of videos with different situations here so you can understand what I mean. For example how Monty uses the dually in 'teaching your horse to lead' is a little different from how he uses it for loading a difficult horse or training a young horse. I am sure your horse will respond once you have worked this out. Plus please remember that the dually is only necessary for training young horses or correcting problems with remedial horses. If your horse leads correctly in a conventional halter and has no issues with leading then you DO NO T need to use a dually.

She barges in her normal halter too, which is why I got the dually. :(
It fit perfectly, just below the cheek bones, right part of the nose.
I watched many videos and tried both methods (slow constant pull and a jerking motion, jerking worked better but she still didn't trot at all). I'll re-watch them, but believe me I tried it all. :/

Learning to use the dually takes time and practice for both you and your horse. If it's denting your horses face I would say it's probably too tight, maybe loosen a little. As far as her barging through take the time to teach her boundaries with the dually. Moving forward... backing her up, teaching her to stand in the sweet spot, learning to be quick with a correction when she needs it. Watch as many video's of Monty and Kelly demonstrating how to use the dually as you can. Once you've mastered the proper use of it and your horse is cooperating then you can move on to trot and canter leading. But until then stick with the easy stuff first. The dually will not hurt your horse, make sure that your not leaning into your horse to back her, instead use short quick bursts be as vigorous as is required until she moves back. Then release and reward.

She did fine with backing up, until we got to the grass. :( Then she just kept pulling away...Thanks, I'll keep trying, was just feeling a little discouraged.
It was a little tight, so I loosened it some, but it made the barging for grass much worse. :(

I'll watch more videos and try again tomorrow when I have some spare time (usually an hour). :)

Any more tips?

You are making progress. If she is barging down for grass and pulling away then hold the lead rope close to the discipline ring and then use a strong locked at the elbow arm with a good jerk as soon as she even looks like she is going to drop her head or pull away. I usually say 'no' or 'ah ah' at the same time to re-enforce the command. Backing her up will also be re-enforcing. Remember to release the pressure quickly when she responds and give her a good rub but be ready to discipline her again if necessary. Be consistent! I am sure you will work it out and have success. The dually is just fabulous for retraining strong barging horses like yours.

Hi to thehomemadehorse, great advice Maggie, and fitting the Dually is #1. However, perhaps I could add to remember to keep the sessions short. An hour is quite long. Make it comfortable when your horse does something desirable and uncomfortable when not. In one case, where I needed to make a bigger impression on my horse student, I would instantly back him up, making myself big and 'noisy' meaning body language, not verbally. When he calmed down, so did I. I made it a nice place to be. Remember who controls the feet controls the situation. A horse that dives for the grass, ignoring you, is not leaving you in a safe situation.
Hope this helps. I'm in B.C., unfortunately a bit too far to help in person. Keep watching different videos, as Maggie encouraged. Don't forget to smile.

Thank you guys for the advice, I didn't have much time today to try again (and I was scared too, I will tomorrow though) and thankfully her nose is fine now and she was more than willing to come greet me with a nicker (I was scared she'd not like me).

I'll try again tomorrow with it much looser and tighten as needed, and only for 20min to keep it short and positive. Maybe throw in some treats (I know monty is against it but I'm not, she loves getting treats and is very respectful about it)

you have to be sharp, quick and firm, dont be gentle if she in barging through you. Do alot of join up and she may then be a little more respectful of your space but at the moment it sounds like she has no respect for humans at all and thinks she can barge through you. Do alot of work with standing still. Sgtand her in a particular spot and as soon as she takes one step correct her as quickly as possible and yanjk sharply quickly and firmly, and back her up. keep doing this continuously until she will stand still properly. after this she will be more respectful of the dually. The dually can achieve great things when fitted or used correctly! hope this helps! Thanks

So I tried again today just for 20min before dinner and she was MUUUUUUCH better, for Three reasons: It fit this time, I gave some treats to keep her happy so long as she was respectful, and you guys!! I re-watched all the videos, but mostly I read all your replies and wasn't as gentle this time once I knew it fit correctly.
Thanks again all!!

Now, once she's fully used to it....Will the Dually stop her from bolting? I try to take her on hand walks (she's just turning 2) but once we get further from the barn she will eventually bolt allllll the way back. :(

It will help with bolting but you'll need at least a 30 foot long line to hold her when she bolts. I would work with her in a small area where if she tries to bolt she can't get away. If she keeps getting away from you she learns that she can and this will establish a pattern for her that will be difficult to fix. I would stop the hand walks until she learns to lead without problems.

and don't forget to use gloves! they might save your hands if she bolts.

Cheers,

Mirna

If she is bolting at a certain distance away from the barn and then bolting back to the barn its possibly a level of seperation anxiety. Is there anyone that can bring another horse along with you on the walk and see what she does then? Kleinne is absolutely right, this has to stop before it becomes a habit! Can you figure out what her safe distance away from the barn is i.e. is it always at the same place that she starts to bolt back? If so start by turning back just before that spot for a few days, so before she even thinks about it and starts to worry, then gradually increase the distance that she can tolerate. Also vary your route a bit. Walking her backwards can also 'confuse' her so that she does get to rehearse and reinforce this behaviour. Keep us updated :-)

It's been a long day for me! Thanks for all the replies, I have a long line and gloves for sure to use. It is separation anxiety, and she's only bolted twice on me, so I don't think it's a habit yet so I'd like the break it asap. (once the dually is second nature to her anyway)
Baby steps!

Hey, great work, I had a few comments, too. I used the dually to practice loading into the float and first I also thought: "why doesn't this work the way it's supposed to...". I also had to rewatch the videos and noticed that I had made the mistake of having it a bit too loose. The other thing about the separation anxiety: great, if you have the possibilty to take another maybe older, horse. My horse learned a lot of things of his 15 year older stable mate and now is as quiet as you can hope for. He takes everything in his stride, trucks, motorbikes, barking dogs jumping up fences....
I wish you good luck and heaps of patience, there will always be better and not so good days with your horse training, don't give up and just give it another go the next day.

Hi Homemadehorse: Just reaching out to let you know you aren't alone in Ontario but it is a big province so the online program is a great place to start. I was interested by your experience and in particular your expressions of concern over how your horse may view you. Trust me when I say your horse will only learn to respect you as the leader in a gentle way through Monty's training program. You are right about baby steps - and so I encourage you to begin in a safe enclosed area until you are completely comfortable with her having the correct reactions and dually skills before you move outside the paddock/pen. Whenever you are feeling fear/anxiety over going too far outside your own comfort zone your horse will pick up on that and begin responding with a heightened generalized fear/excitement based only on your own cues such as level of breathing and heart rate, tightness on the line etc., and begin trying to take over as the leader. Keep working on it - and share your challenges and successes with us here.

I had great success today with my farrier. She learned very fast to stay still in her dually (normally shes a wiggle worm for the poor farrier) and didn't once barge into me!
We lead her around the farm a little (I was showing off how the dually works) and she lead beautifully without snatching grass at all!! (she tried like three times but after that gave up! Kept my elbow locked!)

Thank you all, I'll keep you updated as she progresses and it's nice to know I'm not alone in Ontario! I'm in the gta area, haha. :)

Yay!! Congratulations :-) Sounds a sif you have turned a major corner there, I'm pleased for you!

Today was a big set-back and a big victory. We moved her a couple days ago (the previous barn had a crazy owner, who rented it out, though you wouldn't know since he was always there!) and that's when I started with the dually.
However, today she moved with her one <---Key point, buddy into the paddock with the full herd.
She is the leader now of this said herd, and when I tried to take her away she and the rest of the herd freaked out.

The victory was she never bolted with the dually, but she wasn't "with me"...any suggestions on how to wean her from the herd?

Give it time, its early days, the herd will still be sorting itself out and needs to adjust to new members. Just keep being calm and she will trust you :-)

So today we had a major breakthrough! First off, she's fine with leaving the herd now, just needed a day or two to remember who I was haha, the herd still needs to learn they can calm down without her.

But the biggest....We went for a walk!! just for 20min away from the farm, going slowly and calmly. She spooked at a truck once and quickly faced me asking what to do (she got treats and we followed the truck for a bit) and no snatching at grass at all and no bolts!! Success!!

Thanks to everyone here!!

Please remember that she is only a baby still at two so try not to expect too much of her. Given she is so young short sessions in a safe enclosed area are advised. Although you successfully walked her out this time I wouldn't make a habit of this until she is older and more responsive to the dually. Well done for holding her when the truck came but think of what could have happened if she had bolted on you? When really scared they tend to be blind to danger and as flight animals just wish to get away from the scary thing as fast as possible. In this state they are at danger of hurting or killing themselves and also a danger to others on the road. Even with the dually, long line and gloves they can be hard to hold if they get really scared and take off. Note Monty always works with his young or problem horses in a safe enclosed area. If they do manage to pull away in a round yard they are not rewarded, they can easily be caught again and most important of all they are SAFE. Stay safe and keep your baby safe too!

The truck was on the property at the end while she was eating her food, so it was in a safe place had she have bolted, don't worry. :)
20min is the max she'll ever be worked until she hits about 3 when she'll go out for training. I try to keep things as safe as possible, sorry I didn't make it clearer in my post!
Thanks for the advice, I'll try to keep things safe and quick since she is still a baby. :)

Wow, great turn around, congratulations :-)

So yesterday I wanted to just spend time leading, because she was in heat, and she gets weird in her heats (more pushy, fearful, probably a little cramps). However when I run, she still just walks. :(

I keep the pressure on her but she never speeds up, so I went back to normal leading at a walk and she's perfect...does it just take more time or should I be doing more?

Sometimes it can help to be a bit more 'jerky' with the Dually rather then leaving the pressure on. Another tip is to have someone behind her to just make a clucking noise or snap a twig, or crackle a plastic bag just to make her look for you as a safe place to eb with BUT be very careful, the aim is not to scare her to death and make her run but just to move off the gentle pressure coming from behind so just a light sound :-)

Thanks, I'll give that a go, first getting more jerky and see if it helps. :)

Hi to the homemadehorse , I have just looked into this conversation and like to say to you , please give it all a bit more time. Your horse is still very young. It might seem grown up because of its hight, but a two year old horse is like a small child. You cannot expect a child in grade two performe a grade five lesson. Let her grow up and enjoy in the meantime to spend lots of time in safety just playing with her in doing ground work. You will be surprised how all of a sudden she will understand better what you ask her to do. And our body language is so important in how our horses see us. For me it has been as much time to learn my own behaviour as for my horse to respond to me. Enjoy her present and be patient.
Cheers Hiltrud.