i come from a family of horse lovers and my husband wanted to give equine therapy a try when he got out of the army and was diagnosed with PTSD. So we found 2 wonderful horses for us and our children. The first is a 7 year old quarter horse that our daughter rides and has done great on until about a month and a half ago he started fighting his bit let me explain that he used to take his bit no problem now when his head stall gets anywhere near his head he starts turning his head away or pulling it under or backing away from it but he never runs off stays close in the join up that we have with him. After we finaly get his bit in and our daughter on he does great for about 15 mins and then stops when she give him the little squeeze or kisses at him to get him to go forward he will buck and i dont mean bounce her in her saddle i mean BUCK. Any advice on what to do? PLEASE HELP!!!
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Hi harold.wayne.jones,
What a wonderful solution you found for your family, having horses to work with and learn from!
Please have your horse's teeth and back checked by a vet, most probably either teeth, back or shoulder show some problem. Have your saddle checked, too.
A reaction like you describe is a sign of pain, so please stop the riding/bitting until you've solved the problem. Horses still grow at this age, muscles build up and teeth grow permanently, woolf/canine-teeth can cause trouble as well.
Let us know how things go!
Miriam
Hi, I agree with miriam. Teeth, saddle, back. Get these checked and you should find the problem :-)
Janelle :-)
we have had him checked by a vet and the farrier no problems were found.We have also had his saddle custom made and fitted and adjusted to him as he has grown.The only thing we can think of is that maybe the way he was trained was a lot differnt then the way we do things. He was trained the charro way which in my mind borders on abuse. Were as we prefer the none abusive style of training.
Hello
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If you are absolutely sure you can rule out pain, maybe your horse is "napping". That's when the horse refuses to move forward and do his work. This refusal can manifest itself as standing still, turning around and bucking.
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Watch the "Walter Wont Go Forward" series for information on how to deal with a nappy horse.
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Also, think back to a month-and-a-half ago... Did something happen? Did your horse buck for the first time and your daughter fall off or something like that?
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Somehow in your horse's mind, he believes he has been rewarded for his negative behaviour, meaning he thinks he is gaining something from it every time he does it.
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He is not going to stop till you find a way to make his incorrect decision to stop and buck a negative experience for him. In doing this, you will make doing his work a positive experience for him.
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For example, if he bucks and the work stops or his rider falls off (even for a few seconds), this is his reward. So next time you saddle him up, put a buck stopper on him. This is detailed in Monty Roberts book "From My Hands to Yours" and there is also a video on YouTube about it. When he bucks, the buck stopper will act on him and when he stops bucking and works nicely, the buck stopper is like its not even there.
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To encourage him to take his bit, put some honey on it so it tastes nice in his mouth and becomes a positive expereince for him. Monty Roberts does this in a number of his videos with great success. Are you using the same bit the horse was trained with or did you change it for some reason?
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The other thing to look at too is his feed. If he is not in heavy work, he doesn't need a rich diet that includes grain or performance pellets of some kind. He just needs a simple bland diet of grass, chaff, hay and bran.
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I hope you can find a way to correct this behaviour pattern in your horse. But please note that I only make these suggestions in consideration of the fact that you say he is not in any pain.
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Also, what is the "charro" method of training?
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Kind regards,
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Gen
the charro method is very brutal they basicly beat a horse into submission there are no option you do as i say or you get hit with a whip or bat. our vet gave him a clean bill of health after taking x-rays and everything i think mom might have to just over come my fears and get back in the saddle and see if he is doing this because she is small. all advice and suggestion are welcome and thank yall so much
harold.wayne.jones
Everyone has brought up very good suggestions. What is not clear is the horses behavior when you first got him. It seems that he excepted the bit and was compliant when ridden. If this is true then some trauma must have occurred that has him frightened of the bit as well as ridding. I don't dispute that the vet and farrier did not find anything wrong, but for my own peace of mind I would want to absolutely verify that the teeth do not need floating and there are no wolf teeth that are interfering with his bit. You can check your horses teeth by inserting your hand between his cheek and teeth. The teeth should feel smooth without any sharp points. Most horses will allow you to check their teeth this way, but be careful and work slowly and make sure your hands are clean. The other test that you can perform yourself to verify that there are no problems with the back is to take your first two fingers and place one on each side of the spine and press quite firmly and rub from the front shoulder area to the tail in a steading downward motion. You need to press very firmly to test the spine. If your horse flinches, twitches or tries to move away from the pressure there is a problem with the spine.
If everything else checks out ok, I would follow the suggestion of putting honey on the bit, but leave the reins off. Once the horse has accepted the bit you can remove it and repeat. After three or four times I would just leave the bit in his mouth and see how he reacts with just having the bit in. IF he starts playing with it all is well, but if he chomps on it and tries to spit it out then he is uncomfortable. I don't know what bit you are using but if it is a curb bit the port of the bit maybe to big. They make a bit called a grazing bit which basically is a straight bit with no port. It is similar to a snaffle bit but it does not break in the middle and put pressure on the roof of the mouth.
You are correct that Charro's are a little rough on their horses, but that can be overcome with your join up and consistent training and commands. When your horse does not understand what you are asking they can get very upset.
Hope this has helped you solve the problem
Cheers
would a different type of bit make any difference?
Absolutely
Every horses mouth is different and if the bit is not the correct size it can be very uncomfortable. Also if the riders hands are not steady and soft, the bit can constantly bump the horses mouth
Cheers
You could try a bitless bridle and see if that helps? The Dr Cook crossunder type is supposed to be very good and works on a head hugging principle, I have heard good reports about it - or if your horse is used to a Dually headcollar you could ride in that. I would also get a specialist equine dentist to check the teeth rather than a vet, unless your vet specialises in equine dentistry - a second opinion is never a bad idea if the probelsm persist.
Good luck - I am sure you will figure out what is wrong very soon, there is some good advice given here, it is a process of elimination.
Hello again
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I just had another thought... My horse Ranger has a very soft mouth and when my youngest daughter was learning to ride him, he was threatening to kick out and he was stopping and not moving forward freely.
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I realised that my daughter was telling him to go forward with her body, but holding too tight on the reins and holding him back, so Ranger was getting confused and acting out as a result of the mixed messages.
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When we realised this, we corrected the way my daughter was holding the reins and the problem was solved.
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Not sure if this will help or not, but is just some food for thought.
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Kind regards,
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Gen
Good comments here and I agree with everyones advice. Given he was OK before, given this behaviour just started up for no reason and given that it is the bridle and bit that he objects to then it does seem that he has some problem in his mouth which the bit is aggravating. If it is not his teeth then he may have an abcyss from grass seeds or some other kind of mouth soreness. I would be getting a good reliable horse dentist or vet to check his mouth carefully.
Hi. I think the advice to get an equine dentist to check your horse's teeth is really worth considering. The first time I had an equine dentist look at my mare's teeth, 5 months after the vet had last checked and rasped them, he was very surprised to find very sharp edges and growth that was not at all consistent with the fact that the teeth had been tended to only 5 months previously. Since that time I have always had an equine dentist to look after my mare's teeth. Another possibility is that your horse has a problem with its poll. An equine osteopath would be abe to check this out. Best of luck and hope you are able to find a solution!
I am having similar problems with my horse but more standing still and not moving forward, its very frustrating, but because he is recently chewing at the bit when I initially put on bridle it makes me think he is not confortable. He does not respond always to leg commands which makes riding flatwork exhausting. I was feeling really flat today after going for adice at the saddlery shop about the bit, as she mentioned it's all rider error. I need to work out whats bothering him before I make him worse, but today he was really distracted with a motorbike in paddock next door & children, I then find him hard to concentrate on me. Everyones advice is really helpful.
chezzl72
It sounds like you have more than one problem with your horse. First I would not worry too much about the motorcycle as a distraction. Most horses do not like the sound of mechanical equipment. My horse hates tractors and will let me know in no uncertain terms that he is afraid of them. Your horse chewing on its bit is not unusual, but it could be a sign that the horse is either is frustrated / hurting When was the last time his teeth were floated? If it has been more than a year he is overdue. If the horse hd no problem with the bit before, what has changed. Have you changed the way that you ride? are your hands quite when riding or do you use your reins to tell the horse what you want him to do?
Constantly fussing with the reins can be very annoying to the horse and he will start to chew the bit. Chewing is much different than playing with the bit. Horses that play with their bit are usually happy and it is just a game that they play to keep occupied.
Another thing to consider is are you giving your horse enough different things to do or do you continual do your work in an arena. Horses need to have their mind stimulated just like humans do, otherwise they get bored and start to refuse to work because there is no reward in doing the work.
Cheers
how long had they been doing great? Something took place a month and half go! You just have to figure out what.Thanks Dennis on the info for doing the checks yourself.Harold Wayne Jones did you see the video on Equine touch here on the UNI?
Hi Everyone, It's great to see you all coming up with good sense and practical advice. As I read through all the answers I was proud to see that one of my Intro students, Gen, came up with exactly what I was thinking. All the advice given regarding eliminating the possibility of pain is spot on, however, from the information provided by Harold Wayne Jones, I suspect that the daughter is pulling on the reins at the same time as asking for forward movement with the legs. This is a common problem with young, inexperienced riders. It causes confusion and anxiety in the horse as he is receiving conflicting aids. The result in this instance is that because he is being asked to stop and go forward at the same time, the only way for his energy to go is straight up! Hence bucking.
Harold Wayne Jones , if this is not the case and you think your horse is 'napping', definitely check out the UNI lesson on 'Walter wont go Forward' as Gen suggested.
I don't recommend you attempt to use the buck stopper yourself. This can be a very effective tool for eliminating bucking, however it is only for the very experienced horseperson or trainer. If used incorrectly it can be dangerous for both horse and rider.
I hope you find this information helpful.
Good luck!
Lynn
Lynn
Intersetting observation, but I would be concerned that the reaction of the horse is more sever that just the frustration of mixed signals. I suspect that the horse has a problem with its teeth, since it refuses to have the bridle put on. My experience with horses that get frustrated will buck and snort trying to get rid of agitation, usually the rider, but they settle down. The fact that the horse was good before and the daughter was riding him makes me think something changed physically for the horse. When they toss their heads or refuse the bit I always suspect that the teeth / mouth is bothering them.
Cheers
Hi harold.wayne.jones.
The first thing I would like to say is I'm sorry about your husband and his PTSD. This is so hard to deal with, for everyone.
Our family has it as well, for different reasons and it is a day to day reality. I'm truly sorry.
The horse may have mouth problems or it could be the handling.
The only way to know for sure is to first have it checked out, if so than that is the end of that.
Secondly, if that is not the case, have the child practise with you.
An easy way to do this is:
You hold the reins in your hands, pretending you are the horse and have your daughter do all that is needed to direct the horse.
You will soon find out if she has a heavy hand.
No harm done and she can learn a lot.
I once saw this done with a young women while they were sitting on a log, oppisite each other and the instructor was throwing everything possible at the young women.
When it came time to be on the horse, her hands were soft, she knew the feel.
Have a great day,
Ronda