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What I say to my friends who don’t understand why I’m doing this

Please do as I ask!

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About a month 5 week's ago, a friend of mine & myself brought home a rising 4 mare. I've been playing with her going back to basics as her owner had backed & turned her away (we got her as owner is away training to be a farrier). Anyway she settled in, but was quite vicious with her teeth but only over the stable door, so we told everyone to just push her away if she tried to bite as we thought she needed her teeth doing. But WHY is there always someone who thinks they know better! This person habitually seems to smack the horses in the yard & is NOT trusted to do anything with them anymore! She happily told me she'd hit this mare because the mare had tried to bite her, needless to say she was unceremoniously told to keep away from this mare. Mares teeth have now been done & she's lots better occasionally the teeth appear but is pushed away then asked to come back & "love" (which is a touch of her tongue on the hand),I taught my big man to do this instead of biting!

Miriam (Holland&Germany)
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Hi Tiggy,
I see your point of people undoing your good work!
You seem to have found a fairly good solution, keeping the person away from the mare.
Monty recomments a quite simple technique for horses that tend to bite. First of course you do Join-Up with your mare, then start Dually-training and should she still not respect your personal space ( to bite you she'll have to invade your personal "bubble"!), you do the following:
Withing 3 seconds, better within 0,3 seconds after the biting, you touch the horse's cannonbone with your shoe. This should be unpleasant, but should not hurt.
Soon the horse will be distracted by your action and will associate biting with the less pleasant experience of her shin being touched. With the Dually halter you can ask the horse to respect your space. I've seen this method work with young stallions, that are prone to try nibbling and biting, due to their hormonal status.
Good luck!
Miriam

Kicki -- Sweden
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Tiggy,
I have a "mouth problem" with my rising 6 year old (gelding). Would you mind sharing how yo taught yours to lick instead?
I've tried the cannon bone thing but in our case, he outsmarted me and went for my leg instead, thinking we were doing the "you bite my leg I bite yours"-game instead. (Imagine a rolling eyes smiley here!) ;)

beryl
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Hi Kicki, i had the same sort of thing with my mare, she just moved her leg out of the way.
If she goes to bite now, i push my face towards her with hard eyes on hers, just as she does to Ebby, she usually accepts the telling off, softens her eyes & sometimes licks, chews & says sorry.

Tiggy, Tears
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Hi Kicki,

My big man still plays the biting game, but is soo subtle, he does the nosing up the arm then just nips lightly at your shoulder, then pisses off at a rate of knots because he knows it's not really allowed, turns & looks at you with almost a cheeky grin. We taught him to love just by persistence really & if he didn't touch your hand/face (yes he used to go for the face) with his tongue, he was ignored. If he ever landed with the teeth & meant it, it was a case of "NO" & a flick across the nose/top lip with fingertips. Not hard but enough that it was felt!

Miriam,

I would catch her in the leg but she only ever seems to try & bite over the door, she's getting much better, so I've told everyone in the yard that if they go to her not to stay there until she tries to bite, hopefully she'll think she has trained us to leave when she doesn't bite. She's really bad around grub times but I can live with that because we just leave her until she has her grub then she's really polite in the stable, doesn't push, moves over so you can fill water bucket/hay cube.

I'm sure we'll get there providing everyone sticks to the plan, she's a lovely mare but has been allowed to get away with silly things that are unacceptable.

Miriam (Holland&Germany)
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Hi Tiggy,
I know this kind of behavior, seems like she's been fed from the hand and like she tries to catch your attention with nibbing. You're right to tell people to not linger in front of her door, this would provoke biting. I still think the cannonbone trick could work with her, as I said had a great result with a young stallion, where no one could walk by without being bitten. We took him to the roundpen, did Duallywork and were prepared for a bite (double,thick sleeves!). As soon as he tried his biting, he was touched at the shin and schooled on the Dually. The association does the trick. He just doesn't bite anymore.
Keep the good work going!
Miriam

Tiggy, Tears
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Quite possibly fed from the hand. I'll remember the cannon bone trick if she tries a nibble outside, although she nipped me on follow up yesterday & had a "Oi, cheeky" comment, no malice just irresistable chance I think. She's learning it's not acceptable to bite, I've just been to see her before I left & no attempt to bite, she had her ears back & was unhappy but kept her teeth to herself. I gave her a rub & a "Good girl" then left her to it, mate will feed her about 7pm. Must admit since she's had her teeth done there's no nastiness behind it anymore, it's only been just over a week so progress is progress.

MaggieF, Melbourne - Australia
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Tiggy - well done. Sounds as if you are making progress. I find the dually is great for nippers too. Quick correction as soon as their ears go back. If they are lose then as soon as they look at all regressive then I chase them away - best to have something in your hands for this eg feed bucket or rug. You need to respond quickly as soon as they are submissive - turn your shoulder to them, eyes away and allow them to come back then big cuddle - oops I sometimes use a bit of carrot too. I am one of those owners who can't agree with Monty on this point as I find that treats when given correctly help to correct many behavioural issues including biting. Clicker training is based on treats to reward correct responses and many owners have great success with it. I don't use a clicker but in many other respects my approach is similar. Bit like training a dog with treats. The important thing is that the horse must stand quietly with their head away from you and must NOT look for the treat.

beryl
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My mare wouldn't dream of biting with the Dually on - she's too clever for that, she'll only be bossy etc when she's loose, she has great respect for the dually!!!

MaggieF, Melbourne - Australia
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Yes, they are smart. Ditto for mine but when she is bossy when loose I just chase her away until she comes back in a docile manner then its lots of pats and cuddles and sometimes a treat. She has done join up a couple of times so she knows what is expected of her.

beryl
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Yes, it's the same sort of thing i do, but when i say "loose" i mean loose in the stable, she doesn't do anything when she's loose in the field, she's a lovely girl then, if she doesn't want to interact with me, she'll just walk off.

Mel - Ramsgate UK
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Smiling to myself reading this thread imagining balancing whilst touching the leg with your foot and schooling at the same time.
I find using the pressure point near the cheekbone effective with a stern look at the eyes. holding my nuckle against that point and moving the face away firmly but gently then release the pressure but keep your nuckle at the pressure point so if the horse comes back to bite again it the horse that puts the pressure back on to it's pressure point, so learns not to do it. works very well on youngsters too who are prone to push into your space if they've been handled too much as a foal.

Xxx

Mel - Ramsgate UK
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something else I thought of quickly, as it's mainly in the stable that the mare is biting she could be saying get out of my space. the space a horse seems to take ownership of is not just inside the stable but also where it's head reaches over the door. If we barge into this area, maybe in a rush etc then the horse will take it as being unnecessary pressure and invading her space and react as a horse does... Bite
maybe looking at where her head hangs over the door does she favour one part of the door ie looking to where the feed comes from or when she's waiting for you to turn her out.
where my daughter rides the horses all favour the right hand side of the door, one it's where the door opens and two that's the direction the feed comes from. If standing in the right side of the door I noticed irritation from all of the horses, but if I stood to the left hand side of the door they were happy for that. whist in the comfortable spot I've then observed others going about their chores up to the stables etc and there is a general irritation if people enter that right hand Side.
X

Tiggy, Tears
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AAAAUUUGGGHHH the bloody girl makes me SOOO mad, mate had a word with her on Sunday because she blatantly told us she'd hit the mare again!!!Doubt if it's sunk in but Mare is being turned out in the afternoon so she's not around!
Mel, she's worse before feed times, as some are! I don't think I rush in I always talk to her as I approach, the mucking out tools are close to her stable. If she's trying to bite I try to keep my hand on her face until she stops then she has a rub & I walk away, hopefully she'll learn that if she doesn't bite the pressure goes away, plan is to increase the time being fussed before the rub & release. She also weaves, has stripped the paint from the next stable door (this she's picked up from stable mate he does the same on the wall), chewed anything wood within reach! She's much happier after she's been worked or turned out. She's a very happy bunny today 2nd time I've ridden her went all round the school twice on both reins, tried a rear but no malice in it just a confidence thing hence I didn't react to it I just stayed calm & asked her to walk on with a mate then walking in front as a leader. SOOO glad this girl wasn't around otherwise it would've been "smack it between the ears" which then makes an issue of it & this mare has a brain very much like my big man.

Mel - Ramsgate UK
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Hiya, leaving your hand on her face till she stops might be a bit too long for her to figure it out. Using the pressure point is an immediate response for telling her no, then if she chose to come back she'll learn that she can't without that pressure point being touched again. It will only take a few goes for her to get the point.
You know I have a niggling feeling that this woman is doing something to your mare when noone is around especially in the stable, it could be part of the reason why she's chewing the wood.
We had this when we first got BamBam, the girl and her mother thought they knew best so started to do things such as shaking plastic bottles with stones in his face to keep him in the stable, one day she sent me a text saying the BamBam had bitten one of the pigs and wouldn't let got of it's ear so she forced him into the next field. When I got down there Bambam was angry and extremely aggressive, even charged at me that I had to step out of the way. It took 2 hours to calm him down by just being in the field with him, but at a distance. I never found out exactly what she did.
Hope you get it sorted with that woman, she can't go on doing this to your horse!!!
xx

beryl
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i agree with Mel, she shouldn't be anywhere near any horse from the sound of it!!!
she will certainly be causing your mare stress, is it possible to keep her turned out away from her?
Also feed, is she on a fibre only diet, that may help her too.
Who is this woman??? is she the yard owner or a livery? If a livery can you get help from the yard owner in keeping her away? it would be either i go or she goes, i would not keep my horse in this situation it's not fair to her , it'll be your horse that gets a bad reputation!

Tiggy, Tears
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It's the yard owners other halT's daughter!! She has an NVQ 2 in equine studies (same as BHS Stage 1) & boy does she think she knows it all, mate has her BHAAI from Porlock (1979 ish),myself I have no formal qualifications other than 30 years of having my own, I bought my old mare as. a 2y.o when I was 15, bred from her 12 years ago. I'm a strong believer in experience over paperwork! I've made mistakes & hopefully learned from them, if I'm not sure I ask, if I'm sure I'm right I'll argue. I try not to tell anybody how they should do things but might suggest trying a different way. Not this girl she worked in a racing yard don't you know when she was 15/16. I've only been left in charge of a livery yard when the owners been away at a show for a long weekend.

Mel - Ramsgate UK
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Agree Beryl and Tiggy before BHS existed all that was needed was experience and a willingness to learn.
Because of people's views on having "certificates" though I've been working through the BHS exams starting with Horse Ownership. I've been through all the books up to BHSI so if anyone asks my qualifications I tell them BHS Horse Ownership Levels 1&2, experience up to BHSI and the Monty Roberts Certificates we get from the Uni. Shame sometimes paper means more than actual experience.
Interesting she worked on a racing yard, we had similar with BamBam this girl came on the yard, no horse just seemed to attach herself to where we were, she wanted to know why we'd not broken BamBam in at age 2 that he was at the time, we said we're going gently as he'd had a rough time. She got up and said common let me show you how, got out a training bridal caught him and started to do her work. She was as big as me about 15 stone at the time, BamBam had just reach 12 hands, initially everything was ok, she was walking him around jumping at the side of him blah blah, then she jumped on his back and I just saw his legs go outwards underneath him, I was recording it thinking she was going to teach me something I didn't know. Not! apart from she was too ignorant at putting her weight on such a small youngster.
BamBam's face looked at me as Help Mum!
Unfortunately she took him several steps back with his training. As she had no horse at the yard we very quickly asked her to move on that the owner of the yard did not want her there.
I think that was my first big mistake on letting someone show me that they knew what they were doing. I'll not do that again!
Can you work it that you can keep your mare out more??

x

phantommustang1 Walsenburg, Colorado, USA
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I feel lucky that I only have to share space with my husband, and we agree on how to treat horses. anyone who comes along and says they can do better than us is politely told not to bother our horses, and if he or she does they are asked, then told, if asking doesn't work, to leave and not come back. When I started training Princess, a friend brought a guy who insisted his brother could break my horse in no time. I kept telling him I was doing it my way and things were going quite well, finally I just flat told him nobody messes with my horses but me.
I refuse to allow anyone to come in and "break" any of my horses, I can do just fine myself, and they don't get broke, they learn. There aren't many people out here, and nobody ever bothers them, we don't allow anyone to go around them unless we are there.

Tiggy, Tears
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She was basically a shit monkey, and was got rid of quite quickly, think they got fed up with her telling them how to do it! Mel this girl is 14 stone (or so she says, I'm 13.5 stone and shorter & stockier than her) rides like a sack of potatoes on the back of the saddle and thinks that Dressage is just schooling! Fortunately she's not here every day and she doesn't like horses that rear! As Winter did again today as I was gracefully slid off her bum, so she won't want to ride her! What marks me is she'll have her say but you say anything to her & she gets all stroppy and starts on about her post natal depression then Daddy gets it in the neck so we all suffer she's 26/27 ish.

Years ago before I had my own the riding school used to do week long courses during the holidays, covering all the basics of horse care 2 lessons a day then tack cleaning, mucking out etc etc. It was brilliant for kids I took my first pony for some experience & advice from the instructors.

vicci - UK (North Wales)
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I feel for you Tiggy and you are in a difficult position but I think the time has come for some definite action. I can rant and rave all day about livery yards and the appalling way people treat horses but I also rant at how we don't stand up for them enough and are easily intimidated by these "bossy know it alls". At the of the day YOU are paying for a facility for YOUR horse and THEY have a duty of care towards you i.e. to allow you to enjoy the freedom and liberty of working with your horse, within the rules of the yard, without fear of interference from the owners or their associates. Further, if someone is ACTIVELY inflicting pain and/or suffering on your horse this is an offence under Animal Welfare legislation. Am I over reacting? No, I don't think so. For too long have people got away with hitting other peoples horses. If you put your dog or child in care and heard that someone was hitting them what would you do? I suggest a three step plan. 1. Talk to the owners and make it clear that she is not to go anywhere near your horse. 2. Give it one week, if nothing changes put it in writing. 3. One more week, if nothing changes, move your horse and let everyone know why. I could write a thesis on my thoughts about the BHS training but I will save that for another day hahaha

vicci - UK (North Wales)
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Sorry, our posts crossed there Tiggy...on another matter, I have to ask, why are you riding a horse that rears?

Tiggy, Tears
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She's a rising 4 year old, we've had her since the beginning of February, her owner is in Scotland doing her Farriery Apprenticeship, poor girl was offered meat money for the mare & the woman was very rude, she's not nasty just uneducated. She's had her teeth & back done/ checked in the last couple of weeks so I only really started riding her on Tuesday, she'd been ridden a handful of times before & turned away. I'm riding her in a school & she hangs to the gate, my fault getting on at that end, she was very sorry & made it clear by licking & chewing when we went back to the crate/mounting block. And it's a bloody horrible slippery Stubben saddle MF Special I'm not a lover of Stubben.
Going to try the other end tomorrow see if that helps, meant it more today but wasn't nasty just a baby confidence, thing needs someone "with" her at the moment not leading but in her sight line going with her if you know what I mean.
She was good as gold when I got on again, spooked at something in the hedge, couple/three times round the school on both reins, she was starting to turn round to bite my foot & shaking her head so took her to the top end asked for couple of backward steps then got off. She'd been good so wanted to end on a high.
Very happy bunny again licking my hand having a good rub in the stable both after riding & when she came in from the field. Surprising this girl hasn't been near her since Sunday & the mare is beginning to enjoy a rub & fuss.
I really don't want to make an issue of the rearing so will have a read of From my hands to yours & see what is recommended if it continues. Will see tomorrow & keep you all posted.

vicci - UK (North Wales)
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Good luck Tiggy, just to offer a quick thought, it could be saddle/girth irritation that's making her rear, as she is trying to bite your foot area too. Could be external (too tight/pinching/itching etc.) or internal (ulcer caused by stress, feeding regime). Just thoughts to go with the book :-)

Tiggy, Tears
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Yeah she is a bit tetchy to girth up, but I just hold it against her gently before I actually do it up then I stretch her legs forwards. She was initially very bad & tried to cow kick me when grooming, but I just brush gently round her belly area and she's getting used to it now!
Result today took her to the top end of the school to get on and ride with no problems, so definitely a baby hanging to the gate & not so confident as she thought she was!!
Hopefully this bloody girl won't be around over the weekend to harass any of the horses!!!!

MaggieF, Melbourne - Australia
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Well done Tiggy! Pity the girl can't be told to stay away from all horses except her own. If she is tetchy to girth up I am wondering if something is bothering her with the gerth, her saddle or her back or whether she is just being stroppy. Nicky is usually incredibly docile to saddle and handle but when her back is sore she will put her ears back when I girth her up. A warning to me that she needs the physio. With Tricka she was just a bit stroppy to gerth up and saddle initially -she is perfect now. I used to tie her up to the tie up ring on the dually then add another shorter lead which I could quickly grab to the closest discipline ring. Soon as her ears went back or she moved at all - quick correction. Lots of pats and praise when she was good. Worked really well and she quickly learnt to stand still for me with no nonsense.

beryl
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Libby is still sensitive to girth up but she's sensitive to all touch, I have fed her Fibre Digester yeast on top of her Antilam & she does seem to be quite a bit better.She still is mouthy, but i hold the off side rein over her neck so she gets her own correction when she swings her head round to me.

Tiggy, Tears
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Oh she hasn't got her own, just likes to interfere, she had a horse from my mate on loan but couldn't really look after it properly! She has animals then seems to get bored after a few months & gives them away, now she has a child (nearly 18 months old) so can't get bored of the poor little mite! Back to the horse..
Winter was sensitive around the whole belly area when we got her, but is getting much better. Brushing her belly I had to watch for a back leg my side & she was not impressed with the lunge roller. But now she lifts the opposite leg to me & kicks out when I girth her up. I'm not sure how much attention she'd had!
Haven't ridden her today I had chronic indigestion/ stomach cramps & really wasn't up to it.

beryl
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Article re Calming Signals in Horses
http://click-treat.livejournal.com/975.html.

you should email it to her!!!!!
Your mare is a very sensitive girl, all the legginess isn't anything to worry about, just go gently with her, you have to ignore a lot of this behaviour with these horses & listen to them, by that, "i don't mean let them train you to go away!"
I mean be softer with your body language but let them know iot's ok, you'll do it gently, you don't want to hurt them, but you are going to do it, & as soon as they give a little to you, take away the pressure.

Tiggy, Tears
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Beryl, it's a waste of time with her you really cant educate pork!! If we took her to see Monty she'd not learn anything, her way is right & that's it a locked book not just closed!!
Winter is a sensitive girl, just been taking it gently, so she learns it doesn't hurt her at all & is getting much better, more accepting of being brushed all over now. She's also learning that if she has an itch, I'll give her a scratch there & she likes it. I do this with my 2 & they love it, have "thanks mum" cuddles afterwards.

Mel - Ramsgate UK
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Good conversation, sorry not been on for a few days. Hope you've all had a good weekend.

beryl
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Ha Ha Ha, i see where you're coming from Tiggy, a base ball bat might be more in order - for the interfering nerk that is!!!!
My Libby couldn't bare any brush other than a body brush on her, she's an Arab cross. The brush i've found practically all horses like is the American curry - it has a handle & is made from concentric circles of metal with small teeth on each side, it sounds harsh but it isn't; the metal circles are set on with a rubber bush so that you use it by pulling it gently in the direction of the coat in a stroking motion, it removes mud & loose hair with very little effort & all my "ticklish " horses have loved it as you don't have to scrub at them, ever. Just be very careful if you use it on the legs - i wasn't allowed to on Lib for a very long time, only body brush or cactus cloth.

Tiggy, Tears
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Yeah not a bad weekend Mel & you.
Beryl, I have 23 pence that could cure the problem permanently, it's called a shot gun cartridge LOL! She hasn't been around this weekend. Whoop Whoop!
Bloody mare was having a rub, from me for being good, whilst I was mucking her out this morning & the cow bit me on the leg!! Needless to say the tap on the leg happened & she jumped & knocked her other leg, most disgruntled. Old dragon, she is learning mind had her nose out the door & was waving a front leg around, so had a "AAhh AAhh" no mare & she put her leg down then wandered back to her haylage.

Tell you what I use on my old mare "The Muddy Marvel/ Woolly Mammoth" that she is, is a cattle comb, it's basically an oval blade with teeth cut into one side, but no sharps on it. Brings her coat out brilliantly, teeth are shallow, works well on a long (nearly 3") coat like hers & I don't seem to end up wearing it as well. Usually have a bucket full a day from her she should by rights be completely bald by now!!!

Mel - Ramsgate UK
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Lol, sounds like our shetland, shedding tonnes already, well worth it as his summer coat is stunning. Weekend was good for me apart from a big black bruise on my thigh, compliments of Hattie. All in the life of a horse :D

X

beryl
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Oh Tiggy, your mare sounds like my Libby he he he!!!
Better put some arnica on your leg Mel

Tiggy, Tears
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Her coat is a bit patchy, she seems to be losing alot in one area so I can see her dark skin then in the same area spots of white fur, strange see what happens when it's all out.

Mel, ouch, I use the Ice Blue! Brilliant stuff, contains Arnica & Witch Hazel. Used it on my ankle when mates horse ran it into a tree! Hmmm I don't seem to be having much love from these horses lately do I??? Oh the joys.

beryl
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Tiggy, re your horse biting you when you'd given her a scratch, if she is like mine, she's just telling you she's had enough! Mine will go all gooey while i'm scratching an itch, if it's under her tummy, she'll suddenly wave a leg at me to stop, it's just cos it's suddenly become over stimulating & she can't cope with any more, same with the bite.
Cats are often the same, they can be purring away then all of a sudden it's too much & they'll bit to get you to stop.
You just have to learn to read your sensitive mare quicker!!!

Tiggy, Tears
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Beryl,I was giving her a rub for being a good girl when I asked her to move for me to continue mucking her out. If she's having a scratch as soon as she turns her head with her ears back I stop. I keep trying to rub her all over as much as I can to try & get her used to being touched. We are getting there, at least it wasn't a kick! I rode her in from the school yesterday with no problems baby steps. Unfortunately we're on a busy road so won't be able to get her on the road til it's quieter at the weekend, with a "babysitter", also got a railway bridge & station to contend with.

Tiggy, Tears
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Soooo chuffed, just ridden Winter, all the way round the school on both reins couple of times, NO REARING whoop whoop then rode her back to the yard...

Amberpony - California, USA
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Glad you had a Nice Learning Session today Tiggy.

Tiggy, Tears
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Thanks Amberpony.

beryl
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well done Tiggy!
Don't forget, when she's allowed you to rub her, stop & take your hand away to release the pressure as soon as she's let you, then go back again, build it up slowly so she gets to tolerate it a little at a time, the release of pressure - taking your hand away, is her reward for allowing it. Enjoy your ride out, let us know how it goes. x

Tiggy, Tears
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Riding Winter went well again today, no circles at the top of the school, straight out round it, no hesitation at the gate. I changed her bit today from a fulmer full cheek snaffle to a sweet iron with copper inlay & 3 copper rings in the middle, a tad big but I've just ordered a new one just for her. Seems so much more relaxed, so either she's getting used to being ridden or she likes the new bit, salivates a lot with either bit.

MaggieF, Melbourne - Australia
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Well done Tiggy.

Mel - Ramsgate UK
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Brilliant Tiggy, it's a wonderful feeling isn't it!& thanks inc Beryl re my bruise. :-)
Managed to get the car stuck in a hole driving out of the field last night a friend helped out but it was well and truley stuck, so got a lift home then tackled it again this morning. My night in shinning armour was a smiling farmer with a big green tractor :D He was working the field opposite and came over to help out.
Have a good weekend!!!!!!!
Mel x

Tiggy, Tears
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Oh yes Mel wonderful, rode her out of the yard got her & managed trot today, mate had to chase her a bit on both reins, with me giving the aids! Had a couple of I don't want to go forwards but went with mate walking near, again close to the gate but no effort to rear just going backwards. So we're both well pleased with her & one very happy pony. She rides very much like my big man & mates 18hh, not like a 15.3/16hh, just very scrawny neck in front not a vast amount of muscle & mane, surprising how you get used to having it just there. Will try & take her out tomorrow on the road for a short hack, if the bloody wind that's getting up dies down by then, although she doesn't seem bothered by it when in the school.
Oh yeah Miss "I know it all", doesn't know how to set mouse traps & can't deal with the dead one!!! Not had any comments about the mare either, result finally.

beryl
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Results all round then!!!!

Tiggy, Tears
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Even better result today, Winter's been out on the road with Winston!!!! I put on my body protector just in case & both of us had on high viz vests, mine with Caution Young Horse I'm sure some people can't read mind. No problems she was rubber necking at everyth

Tiggy, Tears
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Flaming iPad!!! Was saying she rubbernecked at everything but was very calm, stopped a couple times to have a chat, stood still licking & chewing most of the time!! Two very chuffed riders & 1 very happy, cuddly but tired Winter!! Luckily we missed the trains & a load of cyclists went past just as we came down the drive.

beryl
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super!!! Hacking does much more for them than endless hours in the school. Glad you both enjoyed yourselves.
Me & Libby had a lovely ride today too; nice & relaxed on the road - mostly - we did a ride we've not been able to do for about a year due to me tearing the meniscus in my knee & operated on last July, it's been far too wet to do it through this winter, so we both happy girls too!

Tiggy, Tears
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Oh I agree, but road outside us is quite busy, with heavy traffic (tractors,lorries & the dreaded buses) & speeding cars with no respect for a horse so need an escort, mate is away driving her lorry during the week, & other mate has done her shoulder so can't ride with me, will be limited to the school during the week unfortunately. But we can work on getting trot & steering a bit better.
I was doing well until I tipped Winters water bucket & Iv put my back out!! Must've been holding myself on her slightly just in case she did something but hey oh hot bath & chill out on the sofa (try not to fall asleep this time) will do the trick hopefully!!

Mel - Ramsgate UK
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Looks like it's been a positive weekend!! Hope a hot bath helped Tiggy.

X

beryl
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i have the same probs with the roads round here, but we're happier on the main roads where it's wider & there are drives to duck into if we need to, it's the narrow lanes with hedges at the sides we don't cope with well.
You definitely can't ride her out without a nanny for a while yet if you have to go straight out onto the roads unless you have a death wish?????

If the back#s no better - ice - yuk, but it helps!!!

Tiggy, Tears
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Had a hot shower instead, but ended up using a bath stool cos I really couldn't straighten up!! 3 am I woke up & wanted to turn over that was entertaining & painful..... Not much better today, could hardly stand this morning first thing, back couldn't seem to stand my upper body weight!! I can either crouch, which is not good for the ankle I damaged a few weeks ago, or I can stand for a few minutes, about as much use a chocolate teapot today, even sitting is difficult, can get comfy for a while but not long!!!!!!! Not happy, will have to ring my back guy & see if he can fit me in later today. Feeding up was agony & my dearly beloved suggested leaving the horses in, yeah right, I can't fill a net, carry it to the stable then hang it up!! I sometimes wonder with him, he knows what it's like he fell 23 feet down through a building & put his back out, so occasionally he has the same problem as Iv e now got aggghhhh MEN!! I could do with my old dragon being road worthy, she jogs everywhere but she's like a favourite armchair, you can just sit & chill on her, but I've not ridden her properly for about 3 years & she's got no hind shoes, not really fair on her with my weight now. Don't think Ill be riding Winter today, which is a shame because she's being so good. Oh well she can have a day to think about what she did yesterday.

Mel - Ramsgate UK
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Hope you managed to get to see your back guy Tiggy. how you feeling?
X

Tiggy, Tears
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Yeah thanks Mel, got to see him, much better now thanks, been mucking out but only last couple days, getting someone else to push the barrow!!! Rode Winter yesterday which helped my back, just puts me in the right position! The girl offered to ride her for me on Tuesday but was told no thanks she's fine for a day or two, father was in a foul mood about it yesterday, but she's heavier than me, rides heavy & is too quick to have a go at them. Winter's a tad bargy when tacking up & kicks when girthing up so she'd be slapped for it! She's getting better as I've said before I hold the girth against her for a second or 2 then do it up, no kicking now so I'm quietly winning!

Tiggy, Tears
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Huge result, Winter walked over some poles without a hiccup, worked on halting & walking on again brilliant even next to the gate & walking straight past the gate! Tired pony so no trotting today but happy she was such a good girl, she's beginning to enjoy a cuddle with no teeth!!!

vicci - UK (North Wales)
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Great progress Tiggy, it's coming along well :-)

Mel - Ramsgate UK
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Good to hear Tiggy, well done! X

Tiggy, Tears
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Beginning to feel like we're getting there slowly. But I'll take what she gives! She adores my other half, he's brilliant with animals, he had a good teacher in his grandfather who used to have Shires.

beryl
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Brilliant, what a good girl she is!!! I'm glad you're enjoying her & VERY good with the girth.
Why the hell did her farther get cross about you not letting that vile daughter of his ride YOUR HORSE????? What business is it of their's????

I wouldn't let them ride her either - just carry on as you are & keep gently pushing them away, they might eventually get the message!

Tiggy, Tears
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They've got a skin as thick as Rhino hide!! She's not my horse but I'm the one doing all the work with her & getting somewhere with her! I don't need the input of idiots!

Mel - Ramsgate UK
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I much prefer the word ignoramus. Ignorant of positive changes.
Keep going Tiggy, you'll reap the benefits.
x

Tiggy, Tears
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Rode her over the weekend, she was mentally knackered, we had a short canter (& a buck), I was pleased with her, she went in front of Winnie,yep it's confusing having 2 Winnies one Winston the other Winter! Pulled a twig out of the hedge because she doesn't know how to come off the leg, so just a tap occasionally, to help. Used a dressage whip in the school today just to help with getting into trot,she's learning,3 times round & a circle in trot on both reins, I left it at that let her walk on a loose rein then jumped off & led her in, one happy pony again. And an added bonus she's stopped barging the door!

beryl
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She's coming on nicely

Tiggy, Tears
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Yeah really pleased with her! Better again today so coming on, may try for canter next week, see how she goes. Will take her for a hack over the weekend again, we've got a nice muddy lane with hedges either side, so ideal for baby education to canter with a leader (18hh of goon)!

Mel - Ramsgate UK
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Well done! Keep updating us. x

beryl
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let us know how it goes

Tiggy, Tears
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Will do. We had a bit of an episode today, walked her over a pole on the ground & she only tapped it, off hind waving about in the air not wanting to put it down, I was off within 10 seconds,she did the same the other day in trot but had it on the ground, when we stopped, again tapped a pole! Very strange seems to be in her stifle, back woman is down next week so will get her looked at!

MaggieF, Melbourne - Australia
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Ooops! sorry to hear you came off again Tiggy. I am wondering if you could try long lining her over the poles on the ground rather than ride her until she is desensitised to them.

Tiggy, Tears
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Maggie, I jumped off so I could have a look. Had her jumping over little things on long lines, not sure what the leg waving is all about, she was fine afterwards walking over them later on! She has a scar on that leg half way up her cannon bone, she came with it.

Tiggy, Tears
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Brilliant ride on Winter, had to back out of the yard, but she just wouldn't go forwards without a lead and I wanted to see if she would. No fuss or panic I just asked her to back up, walked the rest of the way to the school then trotted up to the gate! Nobody in with us in there, had walk & trot on both reins with decent shaped circles at both ends, coming off the leg better, not so many taps with the dressage whip.... Jen & I are really pleased with her progress, improvement everyday, Winters happy as well smiley horse at the end of each session so far!

Tiggy, Tears
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Happy very tired pony again today. Been further afield met quite alot of traffic, had her first noseband ( a simple drop)on today as well, working on the KISS ( Keep I Simple Stupid) theory, seems to be working!

MaggieF, Melbourne - Australia
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Pleased you jumped off Tiggy - sounds that she may be sensitive on that leg due to an old injury. Well done for yesterday - sounds like you are making good progress. Hope she checks out fine with the back woman.

Tiggy, Tears
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Yeah so am I! She's sound as a bell afterwards so might just be baby lack of muscle. Much more forwards today had couple circuits of canter on both reins today, I would've been happy with a few strides. We called it a day at that, had a walk around on a loose rein. So progress is being made all the time. Farrier all day Thursday, so shorter feet, little trippy at the mo. Hopefully she won't be so Bargy this time, been working on it!

Mel - Ramsgate UK
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Ups and downs of owning a horse. Hope it goes alright for the farrier. x

Tiggy, Tears
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Seem to have more downs than ups sometimes!! Our farrier is brilliant but very very slow (1 1/2 hrs per set) so the babies will be done between the older 2. Fronts on them first, a break then hinds.

Tiggy, Tears
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Ok so now she's dustbin proof, not good with farrier had to twitch herno way of holding her! Real temper tantrum about it, last resort, or vets & get sedation for her. Farrier wants me to put her leg thru mine like he does, for next few weeks!!

MaggieF, Melbourne - Australia
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The dually should help. If you can teach her to stand still with the dually first that makes it easier. If you have a helper then get them to correct as soon as she even considers moving like Monty does on his Introduction to the farrier video. No helper then tie her with the tie up ring on the dually then add another lead rope to the discipline ring which you can hold as you pick her hooves up - any resistance then immediately discipline with this lead rope. I place the end of the rope between my legs as I pick the hoof up to put there too so I can easily reach it for an immediate correction. Bit awkward and much easier if you have a helper!

Tiggy, Tears
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Maggie,yeah, I tie her up with a hay net to groom her & do her feet, she moves around but she's corrected immediately. Not sure if she's had a hiding by a farrier before because she's really not happy, twitching her was a last resort, and I'm not a lover of them, but I refuse to try & beat her into submission. She stood on end and sent farriers tool box flying. She's very good for just me, and I can pick up any foot whilst the farrier is standing there & give him the foot then she starts again, which is why I think she might of been beaten!! Our farrier is 66 so really doesn't need the hassle, but obviously we can't sell her when she's like this! Otherwise she's brilliant a little pushy but not nasty with it! I have no help here that's any use, I'll get to the bottom of her in a minute. My otherhalf is going to have a go later today to see if it's a man thing with her, although she loves him to bits!

MaggieF, Melbourne - Australia
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Tiggy do you have a dually halter? Tying her up with a hay eat while you do her feet is probably not the best idea as she needs to learn to stand there patiently and quietly without food. I do not know of any farrier who would condone having a horse feed from a hay net while they do their hooves. Twitching her nose or ear may seem pretty harmless but it is very cruel and a good reason for her to hate the farrier. Sedating her would be a better option.

Miriam (Holland&Germany)
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Hi Tiggy,
it seems a very good idea to me to work on the "man"-issue.
You will really need help there, one person holding the leadrope and correcting on the Dually, the male person (your otherhalf) picking up feet. I remember a lesson with Monty and Ian Vandeberge, the person who invented the stiff thumb on the artificial hand, where the two of them "played" farrier. They started with the artificial hand, so they could keep contact whatever the reaction of the horse was. As she loves your otherhalf to bits, chances are good, that he'll be able to convince her that nobody is going to hurt her.
Stay safe and keep us posted!
Miriam

Tiggy, Tears
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I always leave mine with a hay net, Himself is better behaved if I'm not around for some strange reason, I disappear and do something else within range incase he wanders off!! Farrier doesn't like twitching either but the mare was just walking straight through us!! I've got about a month before we do her hinds, might get a tube of sePalin just in case!

Tiggy, Tears
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Bloody phone & predictive text, I meant sedalin!! To be fair the mare has no problem today about us around her nose.

MaggieF, Melbourne - Australia
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The dually should stop her walking through you so I am wondering why she is doing this?

vicci - UK (North Wales)
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Hi Tiggy. ask the farrier if he has an old set of chaps and a rasp you can borrow so that you can start to desensitise to smell/sound of chaps and sensation of the rasp

Tiggy, Tears
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Maggie, Shes brilliant on the dually except when it comes to shoeing! She's actually the calmest & easiest horse on the yard to lead, well most of the time, she doesn't pull but will be difficult to get her attention if she spots something!!
Vicci, thats a darn good idea, will give him a ring after the weekend see if he's got an old pair we could have, what I could do is hang them over the door for half an hour before, then get my dearly beloved to put them on to play with her feet. Will get him to pick her feet up later today & see if it is a "man" thing!! It's got to be worth a try & needs to be solved because she's come on soo well in the last 2 months.

We took her to the pub yesterday she stood like a rock, also met lots of cyclists and went over the wooden bridge, so really coming on never batted an eyelid, hid behind Winston a couple of times but gaining confidence every time out.

MaggieF, Melbourne - Australia
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Hope the chaps work - great idea. She sounds as if she is coming along so nicely otherwise. Great work.

Tiggy, Tears
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Not long been back from a ride with both Winnie's, she was teasy as anything about being tacked up, think she can't wait to get out, had a tap from my hand on the front leg as she lashed out with it! She is soo funny, our mounting block is rather large piece of wood 12" x 12" she likes to investigate the roof of the shed & taste the asbestos roof.. Had to push the gate open to get onto the track where we met more cyclists, a pushchair and a dog!! Good as gold with the tractor & led big Winnie past a truck with 2 canoes on the roof without looking at it!!Oh and she led out of the yard to the corner where we either go to the school or out onto the road, Jen & I are so chuffed with how she's coming on. Happy ponies munching in the stable now.

beryl
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Excellent Tiggy, you're doing a great job with her.

Tiggy, Tears
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Yeah, loving it she is! Asked farrier for an old apron & he's burnt them all!!!!
Yeast madam today, day off she's got a snotty nose & cough from the Haylage so not going to ride out for day or 2. We're thinking of loose jumping her tomorrow she how she is.

Tiggy, Tears
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Going to start a new post guys called Winters Progress!!