Hi need a couple of suggestions please?
Our pony BamBam, coming up for 2yrs, now gelding, but he was only done about 9 weeks ago. From chatting with different ones, it seems we are his 4th owners, his passport only says 1 previous owner but talking with them the breeder didnt have him passported, and the 3rd owner didnt bother to change the passport. This concerns that he's gone through 3 owners in such a short time period and I'm wondering if there is aggression here and that's the reason why we're now his 4th owner.
Feeding time has been an issue before we had him he'd only had grazing and unfortunately hand fed bread and junk. I immediately banned any hand feeding when we got him. As he'd not had feeds before he struggled to eat out of a feeder continually pawing at it till he tipped it to get at his food. We've rectified that by putting his food on the ground in his stall and if eating in the field this goes on a small bed of hay so the hay soaks up the moisture from the feed and he gets that when he eats the hay.
For 3 months he's been with 2 other horses up till just over a week ago, the young girl who owned them has just left the yard taking her two with her. Feeding times with the 3 had to be in order else the oldest gelding would kick the other two and drive them away from the food.
With the 2 horses leaving as he'd not overly bonded with them, he's seemed to be fine.
Today however he was aggressive and went to bite the young lad at the stables as he walked though from one field to the other, then at Dinner time this evening.. actually let me explain what we have to do ... if we walk in his field to give him his meal out there in a select area he has no respect for space and tries to get the bucket out of your hand, so to keep the safe aspect before entering the field with food he has his head collar on and tied where he is groomed. then we take the food in, put it where he eats, then go and remove the head collar and sent him away ... I've always used the words num num with our other animals when food is ready and have taught him too that num num represents food, so when I remove his head collar, I look and point in the direction of the feeding area and say num num. He then trots down and eats his food.
Back to today, dinner time this evening.. whist tied up as I took the feed down he was pawing the ground and violently bashing his head against the gate, he stopped when i went back to him to remove the head collar, when I took his head collar off and sent him away... num num... he trotted down to his feed, turned and came straight back to the gate, head down, ears back. He stopped at the gate and let me rub his head but wouldnt go back to his feed, my daughter popped over the gate to send him away again, he turned to go away then reversed back pinning her against the gate whilst trying to kick her, I had to shout out 'no' to distract him and he turned to me which gave my daughter opportunity to escape to the joining field. He was thrashing his head until I could get close enough to stroke his head, then I got my daughter to go down on the opposite side of the fence to near where his feed was, then call him and 'num num' and he trotted down and had his feed.
I'm not quite sure what happened? Did he not see his food so be came aggressive as I'd sent him there and he couldn't see it? Earlier though with him trying to bite the young lad as he went through his field there was no food involved.
bit of history..
I've not done join up with him yet, we're the process of building the round school and the current school is too much for me to manage as I can't walk far.
When we first got him he was in a sorry state, bloated, weeping eyes all the time, we couldn't groom or touch any sensitive areas and he'd never had his feet picked or trimmed, pictures on Facebook.. http://www.facebook.com/DayFieldStables he was sold to us as they said he wouldn't make his full height of 14.2 hands, he was 11 hands when we got him and was told he'd not grown any taller in months, but he's grown to 12.2 hands in just 3 months of us having him.
He's ok now with grooming and he'll let both me and my daughter touch him all over, he'll let me pick out his front hooves, but the back ones has been an issue so I've not forced him on that one, he'll let me groom down to his back hooves and even lift his leg and let me run the brush over the sole but as soon as you put a hand on him to take his leg to pick out he panics and kicks. The farrier has had 2 visits, but it's not a good experience.
Any thoughts please?
There is a recommended associate about an hours drive away and I'm going to have some training with her and take our pony along too. but can't do that for a few weeks.
Hi Mel
It sounds as though this poor boy has been moved from pillar to post in his short life. Sometimes it's difficult to know why they behave a certain way when you don't know how they have been treated and handled in the past. That aside, there are a few things that I think would help you. Firstly, I think it's great that you are enlisting the help of a professional - that's an excellent start. A good join up is a must, and I would say that needs to be done before anything else. Then I think you need a properly fitting Dually headcollar - this is the one tool that once you have it you will not want to be without, useful for his ongoing training and fantastic for teaching respect of your personal space, and also for doing ground work with him before he is ready for his first saddle. Your certified instructor will be able to show you how it works, and I would also recommend that you watch the Join Up and Dually lessons on the Uni.
Regarding the feed issue, perhaps now that the other horses are gone he perceives himself as the top of the pecking order and that you and your daughter are way down the list? It does sound as though he has taken the place of the top horse, in his mind. If you read Monty's book and also some of the Q&A's here you will see that he recommends that all horses be left alone whilst feeding. You could try just calmly putting the feed down then walk off and ignore him, leave the paddock and disappear right out of sight until he has finished and see how that works.
You appear to be on the right track though, and with the help of you instructor and the lessons here on the Uni I am sure you will be able to overcome these issues. Good luck!
I agree with Emlaw. Mel it sounds like you are right on track with enlisting the help of the recommended associate, and agree too that join-up will be a major step in the right direction. When it comes to feeding, I would do as you do in terms of tying him up when you place the feed in his paddock, then just take the headcollar off and leave him be to find his feed in his own time.
Best of luck
Emlaw and Ruthy have given you great advice - can't add much! Join up as soon as you can is important so I do hope your round yard will be finished soon. In the mean time work with the dually as often as possible and discipline him with it if he goes to nip or is at all aggressive as Monty does. Once you have done join up with him then you can send him away in the field too if he approaches you in an aggressive manner at all. You may need to carry a lead rope or a wand with you to enforce the sending off. As soon as he settles and approaches you submissevely then give him a good rub as a reward - around the withers and under the chest are really good places to rub. Try to ensure that anyone entering his space is able to send him away as he wins if they run from him in fear. Being recently gelded has probably made him a little more fratchy too. Try to teach him to stand still with the dually and use a false arm to handle his legs well before the farrier comes. In my experience farriers have little patience as time is so important to them and they can do so much damage if they "lose it" with your horse. Best to have Bam Bam as good as you can prior to having his hooves done by a farrier - make sure he will stand still and will pick up all his hooves for you first. Once you can pick his hooves up try to hold each hoof up for a longer period each time. I made the mistake of not holding Tricka's hooves up long enough when I was trimming her prior to the first time she was shod. Sounds as if you have done most things right. When he refused his food and came back to you and your daughter had you changed his food in anyway e.g. a new bag of chaff? My horses sometimes don't like a certain bag of chaff and will leave their feed and come over to me looking for something better. Now I always buy the one brand of chaff which they like best! Good luck with him - he has had a tough start to life with 4 different owners already and has probably been badly treated. Do hope he settles down for you and appreciates the fact that he now has a great owner!
Hi Maggie Emlaw and Ruthy
thank you for all the input and very logical suggestions.
It makes sense that he is acting top dog and thinking back over his behaviour this last week that seems to be exactly what he's doing, we have him in a small field with the gate attached to the yard whist we are repairing the fencing and it's there we are having the main problem with him. it is like we are walking into his territory each time we have to pass though that gate to get to the field we're repairing. I've got 5 more posts to get in and bars then he can go back into the big field, taking hi. away from e main through gate. I've eye communication with him today before entering the field with looking from the side where he was in the way across to the side where I need him to be so I can open the gate safely, he responded :D and moved across and let me in without a fuss.
To make sure it wasn't a fluke tonight I put him in his stable and left him for half hour before giving him his dinner, I stood 45% then with my eyes again looked to the side where he was standing across his eyes to the side where I wanted him to go, instead of the normal pushing he dose when approaching with food he first looked puzzled, ears forward, so I did the same again and looked across him and he took a few steps backwards and across making it possible for me to enter the stall safely. so no fluke he's understanding what I'm trying to do. :D
The Daully halter is next on the list to buy, we're not well off but chose to forego any holidays to have our own pony, so everything that's extra outside of normal feeds etc goes on a list of to get, building the school and getting the Dually head collar important in the list!
Appreciate yr thoughts, sometimes it takes an outside look to see what's happening.
Tell me more about yr horses please and how long y've been involved with Monty's way of teaching?
Mel x
Hi Mel - a number lof us have details about our horses and how we found Monty under Listening Lounge ..... Introductions - Kicki. It is great to read through these as we can then get to know each other better. Perhaps you will add yours too.
Hi Mel
Not sure which country you are in but you can occasionally buy second hand Dually headcollars online on Ebay (only good if you are buying within the same country, not a good idea to buy secondhand horse gear from overseas due to quarantine issues, they might want to fumigate it or treat it which would cancel out the saving). Also you might want to make sure it is the genuine article and not a fake, and in good condition to ensure safety.
Hi Mel
Just wanted to drop you a line and send words of encouragement. I am new (1 year)to owning ponies and like you have found it a struggle financially so I totally understand where you are coming from with the list of things 'to get'.
I ran into trouble early on with one of the ponies - he really challenges leadership - tests the boundaries all the time and it became dangerous for me as a novice to handle him. I got an RA in to help - cost a fortune but was worth every penny and believe me we really did eat beans on toast to save on expenses to get that RA in! He showed us the basics and also showed us how the dually could help us with training our pony and it was invaluable. I sort of separate our life with the ponies pre-RA and post RA - the difference was so noticeable.
I'm sure you won't regret getting a professional in and as others have said you will find the dually to be invaluable as your training tool. It helps to give your horse a clear line of communication - that way Bambam will better understand what it is that is expected of him. I'm not sure where you live but I bought my dually from Kelly Marks at Intelligent Horsemanship - I think I'm right in saying she is the only licenced UK seller of this equipment - I believe there are people out there selling fakes. The dually is not cheap but because it is such a good bit of kit you are not likely to have to buy another training halter it really is worth buying the 'real thing' and will be one of the best investments you make for your pony - I know it was for me.
I am not really qualified to advise on the feeding methodology but I have found that because I went from being a complete pony novice to an owner (not sensible and that is a long story of how it came to be) but I have benefited from starting my ownership without many pre-conceived ideas or habits and have followed Monty's recommendation concerning food 'to the letter'. I put food down and leave the ponies alone and don't disturb them. I also don't hand-feed any 'treats' etc but put apples etc in the feed bowl for them to find. I have found that keeping it simple has worked for me.
The other thing to say about leadership issues - even without doing 'join-up' in the normal way - e.g. sending away, join-up, follow up etc I have found that if you direct the pony's feet rather than him directing your feet it makes a huge difference. If, when I have my pony on his dually he takes a step backwards I bring him forward - any time he moves his feet away from what he is asked to do he gets repositioned - in a 'like with like' manner. By effectively directing his feet he starts to see me more as his leader and doesn't try and push me about. I think the theory is along the lines that a herd leader controls the herd by making them move their feet - that's how leadership is demonstrated. If you are able to direct how/when your horse moves he starts to view you more as leader. I'm sure more experienced horse people would explain it better than I have!
My ponies do get very hyped up when they see the feed bowl and I have found that sending them away so I can climb over the gate helps to separate me from any possible danger - the RA taught me to do a sort of 'pish' sound and to shake my lead rein - that really does help to re-inforce the sending away gesture.
You've had some great advice above from more experienced people than me but I hope I've helped you a little bit - if nothing else to sympathise about the financial strain of owning ponies - it is crippling isn't it?! Lizzie x
Oh, Lizzie! I just loved your comments here and it shows just how far you have come the last 12 months. Fantastic! It is so good to know that you have it all sorted now with your ponies. Your advice is great!! I know it is hard when watching the $ but I agree the dually is a must if you have a young untrained horse - baked beans for you too Mel! Good luck with Bambam and your learning curve. Hopefully you will be quite the expert and passing on great advice like Lizzie in twelve months time!