Hi coco - if you tell us all about your girl and what is happening I'm sure you will get some good support and advice on here :-)
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Good to meet you :-) Vicci

Hi Coco - here is an answer from Monty to a similar question: 07/12/06: I have a nine-year-old Arab-Quarter Horse cross who is a very sweet fellow, and I use your methods with him. He loves to go out on the trail, but he gets more and more excited if we go out with more than one or two other horses, and after an hour or so he is so excited and wound up that he just wants to run all the time (either that or a bone-jarring fast trot). I need help on how to calm him out on the trail. Should I get off for a little while and let him cool off? I try to stay relaxed, but after a while we are both anxious and no fun to be around. When I get him back to the barn, he is exhausted and I am, too. I am getting my own round pen, soon – would additional round pen work help us?

Monty’s Answer: Round pen work never hurts when done properly. Causing the horse to walk, trot and canter in the round pen on a loose rein is effective therapy for the problem you have stated. Just doing round pen work, however, is not the entire answer.

A good horseman takes the position that one should only work with small problems or small portions of big problems. The round pen work falls into the category of a small portion of a bigger problem. One needs to transition from less challenging environments to more challenging environments in a logical and effective manor. This means making the transition in small steps.

The round pen is great as a beginning tool. Then obviously it is advisable to move to a slightly larger area with good footing and continue to create a quiet attitude on loose reins. Graduate from the second size to slightly larger and then eventually outside of any an enclosure.

It is likely that your horse has galloped like the wind with other horses while in a trail riding sort of environment. For a sensitive horse with a lot of energy this is a destructive procedure. Often horses who love to run in the first place will develop a strong desire for going fast whenever they are with other horses under these circumstances. I have seen horses that I have concluded would never be quiet trail horses after developing this habit.

If you are to be successful at correcting this behavioral pattern it will require a great deal of patience on your part and the cooperation of several friends and their horses, too. If you can recruit this group of horses and riders then the method I have seen work most successfully goes as follows: Your friends agree that they will ride at a walk only. They further agree that they will ride in an area that is open enough so that you and your horse can circle one or more of the riders. It is further advisable that the footing be of a nature acceptable to the cantering horse.

You should allow your horse to walk on a loose rein just as he will remember he did back in the round pen. You should not pick up the reins and tease his mouth in a fashion requesting that he go slower. Instead, leave the reins down. Instead, if your horse picks up speed he will obviously be passing other horses. Let it happen. When approaching the front of the group, bend your horse’s energy either to the left or to the right and let him trot or canter in small circles around the walking horses. You may be circling one, two or three horses but your circle should be small so as to add to the labor-intensive qualities.

When your horse is executing these circles on a nice loose rein ease him back to the walk near the rear portion of the group and allow him to walk on a loose rein with the other horses. Should your horse once again choose to increase speed passing other horses, once again leave the reins down and repeat the same process but in a circle traveling in the opposite direction than your first one. Repeat this process until your horse is walking in a relaxed fashion or until the ride has concluded.

If in fact you have executed the entire ride with your horse failing to walk properly it is my recommendation that you set a date and time for the next ride. Remember that I told you that you need friends that are extremely cooperative. It is my recommendation that you make copies of this answer and distribute them amongst your trail riding partners so they too will understand the suggested road map. Once they know the plan, it is more likely that they will stay the course.

Look for more training tips and develop your understanding of horse psychology in From My Hands to Yours.

Thanks vicci and Debbie, I'm in the process of working with her in the round pen on surcingle to respond to rein pressure as 'stop'. Before that, I simply walked her around and shaped the verbal command of "hoa" It is very small steps. I'm a middle school math teacher and I understand how to scaffold a lesson i.e. break it down into smaller bits, and we were even getting somewhere when the other day the outside long line got hitched over her back and off she went! Galloping around the round pen. I stayed dead calm and after a few times around, I crossed her midline and with hand gesture and verbally commanded hoa. It worked, which I should be glad of because that's what she's learned so far but that whole OTTB thing of "tight reins means go" is still there. That's why I need some way to UNTEACH that and then retrain for more normal reining. Can that kind of thing be untaught? She's 17 and I rescued her, me and another horse trainer think she might have been used at a jockey-training ranch. She's a sweetheart, but probably scared the bajeezus out of the owners who turned her over to the shelter- they believed her to be dangerous. She's not...just misunderstood.

Thank you in advance for any and all advice...I will try it all.

P.S. I should clarify, we believe her to be gate trained at the very least though she doesn't have a tattoo.

P.P.S.- She's very eager to please and has learned well so far. She can walk around the round pen now both with reins and without i.e. verbal command. As I think about this now, I'm getting a feeling that this is just going to take wayyy longer than I anticipated. Any 'tricks' to undo race-track training will go a long way to shortening this process. :-/

Hi Coco
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I'm afraid the key to this is slowing doing your expectations and proceeding only as fast as she can learn :-) Monty's advice above is solid and will have been well tested. It sounds as if you are making progress but as he says, you will need a lot of patience for this journey - she's had 17 years to learn, rehearse, and perfect the behaviours expected of her as a racehorse....if she learns to be a safe trail horse in one year that in itself would be amazing; anything less will be a wonderful bonus.
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Keep us updated, I would love to hear about your progress

slowing down (not doing!) that should say...sorry for the typo!

Hello Coco, I think Vicci is right on spot with her thoughts about your girl. I would strongly suggest that you take some time to access your girl`s timeline and just where you and she might be right now. You have stated that you would like her to be trail horse for your pleasure and that she is 17 yrs. old. Also, she might have been a jockey training mount for the track. If that is so, she probably has never had a deep connection with anyone who was on her back. That`s her history, and now you have come into her life with hopes of changing her entire way of doing and being. I hope that description is somewhat close to her present situation.
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You stated also that you were a middle school math teacher. Imagine one of your students sitting in your classroom that didn`t know the concept of addition, but you felt compelled to bring this student up to speed before the end of the semester. That is kind of what your faced with in retraining your girl.. As a teacher, your relationship with the student would be paramount to get things started off in the right direction. YOU CAN SEE WHERE I`M GOING WITH THIS. But that`s exactly where I would start with her; AT THE BEGINING.
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I would look at the path of learning as a series of concepts. #1 would be the whole concept of CONNECTION with your girl.
ex. you and she in the round pen at liberty sharing space with you sitting in the middle of the pen in a chair with a bucket of goodies underneath your chair. You are after respect from her when she approaches you. As she attempts to join you, POLITENESS is the order of the day. If she isn`t polite with her manner, send her away until she is. When she can stand quietly within the space that is acceptable to YOU for a short time, then offer her a cookie; ONE ONLY... [1+1=2] This exercise grows into you being able to send her away for a short time and then asking her to return to your side while seated in the chair in a polite and respectful manner and treat... [2+2=4]. As this relationship expands, and you find yourself connecting with this mare in other aspects of your beingness, a state of happiness will be the joining you two as your partner. After a few times, possibly 2 days, she will be ready and waiting for the next step of the lesson. At 17 yrs of age, she should a most willing partner. This should be fun for both of you. Keep the times short and productive and often.. [3+3=6].
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The round pen, chair, and the cookies all come into play in the next exercise: [THE WHOA] This exercise will be done at liberty also. #2 You should be able to move you mare from the leading side and also from behind with head jestures [lowering the head to move the mare forward accompanied also with your left arm point in the direction of the chair]. Start this forward movement about 10 to 15 feet from the chair that is still located in the middle of the round pen, only this time have plate of goodies on the chair seat in plain site. Point to the chair and ask her to move to the chair. When she gets close to the chair, say WHOA, loudly, and let her have the cookies. Praise her wildly and then ask her to move away from the chair. Make sure that she complies and then pause to let what just transpired between you two soak-in. YOU HAVE INTRODUCED YOUR MARE TO THE CONCEPT OF WHOA. Do this for two weeks while increasing the distances and she will understand the concept of whoa when you ask it of her. You will have also taught her to be led from behind and to stand quietly without any tack on. [4+4=8] .
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I will talk to you about how this whole procedure and how I might expand these lessons while on her back in a few days.
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Another thing that I might add is what Debbie writes about Monty`s response to horses being ridden in group atmosphere on the trail. The more horses, the more energy and to an OTTT could spell over-the-top energy to control. THE WHOA AND THE CONNECTION TO YOU AS THE RIDER IS VITAL. Vicci brings up the idea that not every horse is suited for the trail. The make-up of a good trail horse is sometimes hard to find. Monty states that his champion stallion, Chrome, would not be a good trail horse. Anyway, you might try some of these exercises and see where you stand with her. I would suggest going very slowly at first and please enjoy your mare. Please keep us all informed of your progress.
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Respectfully, Bud USA

Thank you so much for your responses. And from them, it would seem that my instincts about her are spot-on. We've having a lot of what I call girl-time, just hanging out in a turn out pen, all joined and followed up. We have picnics and I even share my own food (if it's horse-friendly) with her. Really, I've been treating her like a gigantic cat (of which I've tamed and trained quite a few) and we have both grown from it. We've even done some mutual grooming! I never knew horses were so gentle with their teeth until I had her scatching my back. She stands without tie for grooming and we have kind of a horsey type mother-daughter relationship lol! My first horse, a cattle-ranch gelding was bomb-proof and while I'd like to one day get her close to him, I'm alright if that never happens and I have a giant cat that eats hay! lol!

But I'm still hoping that she will be a good trail horse even if it takes a year, and if not, I'm still her forever home and I don't mind sharing my lunch with her until God takes her home. I would still like to keep her fit and 'working' even if it is just in a pen or arena doing ground work.

P.S. I'm not ready to be on her back again, yet. She gets super hyper when someone's on her back so I'm going to give both of us until summer vacation with weekends until then spent entirely on ground work, long lining with and without tack, obstacle training and the like, until I try THAT one again. I've copied and pasted this thread into a doc so I can have it for future reference. thank you so very much! You have no idea how much I appreciate your time and attention to this matter.

Good morning Coco, after re-reading all of the above commentary, I might mention that you used the term "UNLEARN" in reference to your mare being trained to increase her speed when she felt tightness in the reins. [REACH FOR THE BIT]. She can`t unlearn this as an action for many reasons, but primarily because the action is tied to an energetic field that brings a euphoric condition to the horse. This will be present until the lungs start speaking to the thought centers of the horse. If you are to be successful with her responding to the WHOA COMMAND under saddle then I believe that you must approach the entire course of training from another direction. The plan that is outlined above is based on how horses react to one another in a wild or in a group setting and speaks the natural language [equus]. With this approach, I believe that you have an opportunity to bring about changes in your mare and her 17 yrs of doing things differently from how you want her to be now. Your connection with her must be seen as a leader. You are in the capacity as a director general when your together and she is the one moving her feet. You must build that responsiveness from her on a daily basis. She must see you as a soft, directed leader in everything that you do. So when you decide to be with her, create your environment with a plan in place; but at the same time you must be in the moment with her. These are all vitally important when sharing space.
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Breathe deeply, take your time and bring happiness to you both. You are about to engage in a wonderful dance of two unique spirits.
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Happy trails Bud

"close to" in terms of behavior...he's dead these past 25 years.