Hi, mimi.
To be honest I don't even do join up in a round pen neither I use a dually. I had achieved join up and follow up with my horse before knowing Monty Roberts and his online university. But still it is interesting to read different views resulting from very different circumstances. So I think it is not easy to apply one and the only method to every horse. The approach differs very much from the single character and former experience of the hose and person who deals with them.
Monty says, you should never hand feed the horse. In my opinion this is only partly correct. If you are able to assess the situation and you are able to prevent any aggression of the horse when he is not fed and he maintains good ground manners and respect, I don't see any problems. My horse started to put his ears back, so I made him move some steps backwards and let him look the opposite way, away from the food. In the moment he stood still, with his ears up and no tension in his face and body, I used a secondary reinforcement (clicker) followed by a reward while his head was still far from my body. Doing this several times, he has learned, that he will never get a treat when he is aggressive or looking for it.
I also use another way to reward him for good work. I hide some pieces of treats. After a well done exercise I will lead him and he will follow, when I stop he stops and than I will indicate to the ground, where he will find be himself his reward. This has several positive aspects.
1. You don't hand feed the horse
2. He will not see you as the source of food
3. He will consider you as the one who knows where to find good food
4. When he lowers his head he obtains a submissive position (good for dominant horses)
5. If you do this with a head shy horse, they may learn to trust you, if you first let them eat without being touched, than later on you could start with a smooth contact and so on.
This are my personal expediences, not a method.
I hope others will join to tell their personal experience.
Cristina

Hi it is me again. I have posted a video where I taught my horse, Degas to accept the bridle and open his mouth to receive the bit. It is only a game, because for riding I use only a rope halter. He is a thoroughbred and neither he likes very much to be touched on his head , nor to be groomed. At the beginning he just put his teeth together and would not open his mouth. So I started to do some exercise with things he likes, as picking up buckets and other objects from the ground. Later I put the bit on the ground too. As he has learned to pick up objects I am indicating, he got interested also in the bit. As soon as he touched it with his lips, I rewarded him. So he learned to put it in his mouth and lift it up and got used to the metal. Then I fixed the bit on the bridle and the rest you see in the video. At the and of the work or play, I let him to things he likes most, such as lifting his front legs.
The most important thing is, that they enjoy working or playing with you. Finish the session when you and your horse are feeling really good, on this base you can continue the next day. If you have the feeling, that you are in a one way road, just go back to an exercise that makes your horse feel good and reward and finish.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUpTzFaHYZY

Cristina
You hit the nail on the head. I would think that Monty would agree with you. If you just stick to one way of doing things, whether it is with a horse, a child, or your work you will miss opportunities to explore your own capabilities.

Personally I have always fed my horses treats by hand. What I don't do, is do it all the time. I don't use it as a reward for his behavior, but it is for my own satisfaction.
The ranch were my horse is now has many walnut trees and there is a walnut tree in his paddock. When the walnuts fall on the ground he will pick one up and crack the shell, and only eat the nut and not the shell.
Because he enjoys the walnut, I will periodically crack one for him and feed it to him by hand. He waits until it is offered and know that he must behave or he gets nothing. Other times I will just put the treat in his feed bucket, so he enjoys the teat and there is not connection to being fed by hand.

I agree with you about always finish your work on a good note. If the work is not going well, stop what you are doing and do something that your horse does well, give them a rub and put them away. Anytime you try to force your training you will fail. The horse may do what you have asked, but it will always be with reluctance rather than a willing attitude.

One last and I think most important thing is doing any work is patience. Monty's attitude of doing the work like you have all the time in the world and before you know it, the work is completed.

Thanks Cristina for all you video's. They are quite good and enjoyable to watch.

Cheers

Hi, Both Cristina and Dennis have put forward great comments :-) I have always said that you should end each session on a good note. Feeding i agree with you guys. My Brumby hates carrots and apples so we are yet to find a nice treat for him! But i think if it is done correctly for the right reasons it is fine. I don't agree with using food to catch a horse.
Janelle

Have just watched your vid Cristina and it is great. I would like to know more about clicker training! I have seen a few people use it and it looks fun :-)
Janelle

Hi Cristina and Dennis - you use treats in a similar manner as I do Cristina and it is re-assuring to note that I am not the only one who deviates from Monty's views in this way. My horses are never allowed to look for treats but must stand quietly with their head away before I give them one. Like you Dennis I don't use them all the time.

i use treats occasionally use treats to catch a horse if they are being really reluctant to join up in the pasture, or simply to enjoy myself. i use them rarely.
Cristina, i too, discovered a form of join up before i ever heard of monty.

Several years ago, I started adopting mustangs. I had never heard of Monty at the time. When I got a new one, I would go out in the corral and sit down and ignore the horse. This usually made him curious enough to come over to see what I was. If they wanted to touch me, fine, I just sat there. Then, after they got used to me, I would follow them around the corral until they stopped and looked at me, then I would try to touch them. It nearly always worked quite fast. If not, I would follow them around some more. I let them decide how close I got, never chasing them, just following them. Once I got them used to being touched, I would take a halter and hang it on the fence and let them check it out, if they wanted to take it, I let them. Same with saddle and bridle.As well as combs and brushes, which made for a funny thing one day, I had a 7 year old mare in the corral next to the horse I was working with, and I put the comb down and when I went to pick it up, it wasnt there. I turned around and she had the handle in her mouth and the comb part in front of her nose like a silver moustache. Looked really funny.She was a wild one, but we had a tug of war before she gave it back, and I swear she was laughing. Another one, I was doing ground work, getting her used to reining from the ground, and every time she did what I asked, she stopped and looked at me like she was asking, did I do that right? Since none of them had ever had carrots, apples, or grain, I had to teach them to eat them, I would put the treat on the hay and they would, at first, eat around it, until they got a taste of it, then they loved it. Not one of them ever bit or got pushy, and none of them ever kicked either, except for one time my husband decided to tease my stallion, I told him not to EVER tease a stallion, but he did, and that was the only time my stallion EVER kicked. I was told by several people that mustangs could be broke, but you could never trust them, they were mean, stupid, and hard to break. And I would tell them, you have to be smarter than the horse, they will learn as fast as you can teach them, and sometimes faster. I would also tell them to ask my son, who broke his mare when she was 6 and he was 11, he had no trouble at all, and she did great. He could do anything with her. We adopted 10 of them over the years, and never had a mean or stupid one. Every last one of them turned out to be sweet, gentle horses. When the time came to saddle them, I would put the saddle on, cinch it up, and let him go, if they were going to buck, thats when they did. When they got that out of their system, then either my son or I would get on. Then, it was just a matter of getting them to go. I told my son to go out with the new ones and get them used to anything he could think of, and one time I caught him reading a book to them about horsemanship, he thought it would help. I caught him putting piles of weeds on the colts backs to get them used to carrying things, then he would add a cat, which puzzled me, but the colts didnt seem to mind, and neither did the cats. (he was supposed to be pulling weeds, guess he was, and having fun while he was at it.) He had an interesting way of getting on a horse for the first time, he would thump the saddle from both sides, put his foot in the stirrup on one side then the other, then swing up and all the way over, sit on them backwards, sideways, and every possible way until he landed in the saddle, by which time the horse was so used to him climbing around that it just asked, what now?

Hi phantommustang1,
This is such a sweet commonsense strory, that it brought tears to my eyes!
Thank you for reminding us, that all horses, when treated right and given time to figure things out, will be our willing partner.
It should be that simple and down to earth, provided the horse hasn't had a bad experience.
Even then a way can be found to help him to regain trust.
I'm sure you have a lot more stories like the one above, feel invited to share them with us!
Thanks again,
Miriam

One of the horses I adopted was a 3 year old mare. I got her home and turned her out in the corral and let her alone for a couple hours to settle down, she had really been rocking the trailer. Then I went in the corral and just stood there to see what she would do, and to watch her. She explored the corral, (it was a rather big one, not the one I would put her in later) then started watching me, so I went a bit closer. She moved off, but didnt run, so I followed, talking slow and soft. we went around the corral a couple times, then she stopped, and I walked up to her and started petting her. At first, she was scared, but I kept on, she didnt try to leave, and before long came that magic moment when the fear in her eyes turned to awe, and she relaxed. That has always been the best moment for me, when they realize that what I am doing isnt scary at all, it feels good. I petted her a bit more, then left. Later I opened the gate and sent her into the smaller corral where she would stay when not being worked. The next day, I went out and got a halter on her and started trying to teach her to lead. At first she had no idea what to do, of course, and when I tugged on the rope, she pawed. I told her no, not nice, come, and tugged lightly again. She pawed again, I told her no, not nice, come, and after a couple more times, she did. Before we finished for the day, she was leading fairly well, and no more pawing. This horse had never been handled at all, except for the minimum that BLM does when they catch them. By the end of the second day, I could brush her all over and was starting to pick up her feet, with no problem. A week later, I asked my son if he wanted to be first to ride her, he looked a bit doubtful until; I told him she was used to the saddle, then he said ok, and went out and did his goofy stuff, finally landed in the saddle and then I led her a few steps and that was that. We both rode her in the big corral a few times, then my nephew and niece came, my neice was 13 and my nephew was 19, neither knew anything about horses and wanted to learn. My son had been working with my husbands 3 year old and riding his own 4 year old, so I put my neice on my husbands horse and my nephew on the new one, and let them go in the big corral, one at a time, with me to watch, then with my son and his horse, then the 3 of them together. When they were doing well, I had them take them out to the small pasture, and told my son to have them follow him around and do whatever he could think of. Now, I dont want anyone thinking I just let them go, my husbands horse was fairly well used to being ridden by that time, and the new one was doing very well, and we didnt have any other horses that were anywhere near ridable excpt for my stallion, who I wouldnt let them ride. They all had a lot of fun, nobody got bucked off, although Ghost, the new one, ran away with my nephew when he didnt shut the gate like I told him to. I set out some barrels for them to run around, which turned out more funny than barrel racing,Ghost went right past the first barrel and never came close to the other 2, Chocole ran up to the first one like she was supposed to, then stopped and walked around it 3 times.. Then I had them have a race around the pasture.the horse race was hilarious, 3 horses going at 3 different speeds in 3 different directions. The only one who made it all the way around in the right direction was my son and Starfire. By the time my neice and nephew left, both my new horse and my husbands horse were doing great. The kids learned how to take care of horses and tack, clean corrals, feet, grooming, everything, and had the job of halter breaking the 2 foals. And even though my nephew was older than my son, and had an attitude everyone could do without, he did what he was told, even if it was my son who told him. He made me very proud one day, he was riding Ghost and my son was by the electric fence talking to me, sitting sideways on his horse, when she touched the fence with her nose and went skyhigh, and threw him, then stepped on his hand. (Have I said I HATE electric fences?) Anyway, he got his hand broken, I went to take care of him and my nephew took charge of his horse, unsaddled and brushed both of them and put them away. Without being told, which was amazing, considering the way he normally is. Nobody ever blamed Starfire, it wasnt her fault, and if my son had been paying attention, she never would have thrown him.

Maybe I should point out that Chocole, although a mustang, was NOT born wild, her mother was pregnant with her when I adopted her, and my son was there when Chocole was born, so she had been with us all her life. In fact, the day she was boern, my son had gone out to feed, and was so long that I was just going to find out what was going on when he came running in and said "I just made a colt!" Seems she had been born too close to the fence and he had been keeping her from getting her very long legs into the wrong corral. Or something like that, he was so excited it was hard to figure out just what he did, but I am sure he didnt actually MAKE her. He was 11 or 12 at the time.