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Horse Behavior and Training

One Eye Horse

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Hello

I have a untouched untrained horse, she is 6 years old with only one eye.
Will the join-up work with her if she is only going one way? She is blind in her left eye and refuses to go anti clockwise.
How do I get her to trust me so that I can touch her?

Regards
Sigrid
JoHewittVINTA
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Hi Sigurd. Your mare being blind on one side simply means she is much more ' sound & smell ' dependant than the ' average ' horse. My Apollo lost the sight in one eye & had very limited vision in the other ( cataracts ) but that didn't stop him living a full life. However, he was a very old boy when his sight started to fail so we already had great trust in each other  & we had a ' secret weapon ', Bella who came to us as a 6 month old filly. She had been separated from her Mother on the Wednesday & transported, by road for several hours alone in a lorry, on the following Saturday. She wasn't even halter trained & arrive very traumatised - jumping the entire ramp to offload & then planting herself of the concrete. The next day she met Apollo. She ran to him, mouthing ( opening & closing her mouth wide ) as foals do when they want to show they're only babies & vulnerable. Uncharacteristic for him, Apollo laid back his ears & shook his head. Bella turned away, head drooping down & clearly distressed. Then Apollo seemed to think better of it, walked over to her calmly & nuzzled her. They became great friends; he taught her many things & when his sight went she volunteered to help him by becoming his eyes. She'd plant her tail in front of his nose & guide him if they went anywhere unfamiliar. 
.
So, first things first: need to know more about this mare & her surroundings. Presumably she's in a pasture. Is she part of a herd? Are they also untouched? Who owns her field mates? You used the term untouched rather than wild so I assume she's not a mustang or similar. OK, so not much of help offered yet. EVERY HORSE that has EVER had anything to do with ANY HUMAN started with SMELL, SOUND & SIGHT ( not necessarily in that order ). In this respect this horse is NO DIFFERENT. Your first step should be for her to come to recognise you as the human who has come to bring ' GOOD THINGS ' to her - you are HER HUMAN. That might start by using a treat, a little carrot & apple thrown where she can find it, even if the rest of the herd crowd her out. She will quickly come to recognise your call &, with your patience, accept your general presence. From that first, tentative bond you both embark on a wonderful journey, TOGETHER. Please give us more background on this situation so we can offer our thoughts & insights. One eyed horses have been very successful - it's a disability they cope with really well so this mare is worth your every effort. Cheers, Jo.
Sigrid
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Hello Jo
Thank you for your feedback. I love the story about Apollo with the filly. 
Rosie is a Arabian cross, she was with a herd that were also wild. They are owned horses but nothing has been done with them. We got her from an old farmer she was a gift. She is with us here at home. We have a stall that is joined with a round pen so she could have more space to move. She started to recognize me now because when I bring food I whistle at her. I made myself an artificial extended hand like Monty’s. I am working everyday slowly and calming just to touch her. She let me touch her on her nose and enjoy a small scratch on her nose. So already there are a little bit of progress. . 
JoHewittVINTA
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Hi Sigrid. Looks like Rosie is making up her mind to ' consider ' giving you a chance. Sounds will be very important to her. I assume, to the best of your knowledge, she has never had two eyed sight so to her the lack of vision is totally normal. She probably doesn't even realise that horses can usually see in two different directions at once. Rosie will quickly come to love your greeting! I have a suggestion for when she is a little more comfortable with your company. I keep my keys on s strap around my neck. It's actually an old rein that broke. I've often used it to catch one of mine if needed but didn't have a halter handy - & I don't have to search for my keys ( getting older ). My guys know I'm coming because my keys gently " chink " when I walk/move. If you wear something similar Rosie will always know where you are & you won't inadvertently take her unawares. 
.
I did join up with Max in 2010 ( when he was 7 ) & that was really successful. However, Humphrey, who came later that year ( when he was 2 ) needed nursing back to health. His teeth were knocked out on one side, his mouth was very sore & he was painfully thin. I spent time with him, steamed alfalfa & fed him up. Eventually I tried to do join up but needed a plastic feed sack to move him at all & had to be so forceful shaking it I gave up. Humphrey had already decided I was his safe place! His offspring came in 2013 & 14. Kirk & Holy Moley have shared part of each day with me since. I've never tried join up with either of them. Recently I shared a situation we had - it's in " is it necessary to teach a horse to bend it's body ". You may be able to build all the trust you need with Rosie without formal join up. It will take time & I strongly advise you study her carefully so you know her body language. The ability to ' read ' this horse is key. To be able to spot the moment when she starts to worry & to revert to an activity she's comfortable & familiar with will win you her undying loyalty. Apollo was part Arab. They are very intelligent & quick to learn. Apollo was 38 when he died. We had 24 years together. Rosie is only 6. Relax, take all the time you need. You most likely have plenty of it. Please keep in touch. Cheers, Jo.



bahila73
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Hello Sigrid;
Jo is a master with her horses.  In their eyes,  she has stood the  TEST OF TIME, and she receives so much communication from them.  RECEIVE IS THE OPERATIVE WORD HERE.  When in the company of our horses there is, for the most part, a sending of and receiving of messages [thought process] with both the horses and the human.   This opportunity that you have with your mare has the ability to shape two worlds - YOURS AND HERS.  With some careful thought and planning on your part, you can create a DRAW for her, to your energy that could develop into a magical relationship.    What I am talking about is the SPIRIT of unity that goes into a magical relationship between horse and human.  This is what we all search for as we come to love our horses..

In your comings and goings with this mare, I would strongly suggest that you look toward the element of TIME each day as you decide to go to the barn to be with her.. All animals are instinctively connected to a moment in time.  As anticipators, I believe that they prepare themselves for the next moment[ [they are seekers in their operating systems and we can use that instinct of theirs to adjust our approach to their world when we are with them [SHAPE THE PLAYING FIELD] in our favor].

My suggestion would be for you to be TIMELY ON A DAILY BASIS with every interaction that you have with this mare--[feeding watering, cleaning out of her stall, cleaning of the debris from her hooves and of course the conversations that you might have during all of these moments.  By all means, ADJUST YOUR RECEPTION ATTENAE for her communication BACK to you.  If you make a concerted effort with this approach for a week, you will find that her enthusiasm  when she sees you walking toward her will continually increase.  It would be like JOIN UP, only with a different approach.  She will give you space in her mind because you are listening to her and you are TIMELY in your approach.

In St. Exupres`  "THE LITTLE PRINCE"  the fox says to the human the I must be tamed so they can be friends.  Then the fox goes on to explain how the courtship of friendship can be developed.  TIME is woven all through that explanation!!!!!

Sirid, please give your approach to this mare some thought, and by all means, keep us all posted. There is the beginning of a great story with you two.

Bud
Sigrid
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Hello Jo & Bud

I feel so overwhelmed in a good way after I have read your comments. I am happy and positive with this mare and also believe that trust will form with time. 
Thank you so much for all your help and the information that you gave me, much appreciated.  Wish I could have come and visit you Jo, to see and learn how you work with horses, but Africa is quite a way from America and also very expensive.
I will keep on working with Rosie and also learn to read her body language.
All the best for both of you.

Regards
Sigrid

JoHewittVINTA
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Hi Sigrid. There is a wealth of knowledge here on the forum - with world wide contributors & views. Bud is in America, I'm in Scotland. Still far from Africa but we share Montys desire to broaden knowledge with horse lovers everywhere. Some of us contribute regularly where others add their thoughts when they recognise a shared situation. Debate is healthy - it's how we ALL get better at what we do. Rosie has an extra challenge, but by no means a unique one. By making ' the effort ' to understand her, by taking the time for her to  'appreciate ' that taking a chance has rewards for her is a HUGE GIFT & one that she will naturally repay. Like any relationship it will need hard work, there will be set backs but there will also be days of immense & almost overwhelming success. Please continue to share your experiences with us. Cheers, Jo.
Sigrid
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Hi Jo
Thank you for people like you and Bud that are willing to share your work and wisdom with us, where ever you are staying in the world, it is still a big help.
So far Rosie stands and eat while I place grass in her feed tub, can't touch her yet but she accepts me near her by giving her food.
Hopefully I can share some more good news with you soon.
Sigrid
Bella
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Hi Sigrid, Jo and Bud,
I have read with much interest about Rosie and the advice and approaches recommended to build the relationship between Rosie and Sigrid. 
so valuable and really opens up my mind to find suitable solutions that will result in a happy and trusting horse and a human that can provide for her needs or other horses in similar situations.
Yesterday I watched live a Grand Prix Kür Dressage test. The horse had only one eye, the right eye. I was scoring for the dressage judge at B, so I was right up close. The partnership between horse and rider was evident and lovely to watch.
Cheers, Bella
Sigrid
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Hi Bella

Thank you for your kind words and sharing the story about the dressage test. I am going to see if I could see a video of that dressage test somewhere.

Rosie is coming to me when I call her and she walks behind me but she still doesn't wants me to touch her. I believe there is already progress and work and wait with patience until she is ready.

Sigrid


JoHewittVINTA
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Hi Sigrid. So glad Rosie is responding to your care. Are you using advance & retreat to invite her? By slowly walking away a few steps you signal to her that she has the choice to be with you. Her allowing you to touch her will be massive but for her to follow you for that to happen is REALLY important. Funnily enough, the harder you need to work on that the better - the stronger the bond you build will be. Be patient, it will happen. Looking forward to hearing about how Rosie & you get on. Cheers, Jo.
Sigrid
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Hi Jo

Yes, I started to work on that but I still have to be patient. She sometimes ignores me and turn her bum on me but I will keep on working on the advance & retreat. 

Thanks
Sigrid
Bella
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Hi Rosie
The horse is called Dresscode Black, and is based in Austria with rider Amanda Hartung.
He is 11 years old.
I couldn't find any vids of the test to share with you....
Advance and retreat sounds good, looking forward to hearing more about your bonding.
Cheers
Bella
missotis13
Hello!
Hi Sigrid:

I went out to California in October for the Join Up course.  Another woman taking the course had just brought Tilley, her one-eyed much loved mare, to the farm to retire.  She did a Join-Up with Tilley and then was kind enough  to let me try it as well when the instructor, knowing that I have a blind horse at home, suggested it.  Out of all the horses we had the privilege of working with, Tilley was the easiest Join Up by far for me.  I'm used to making an on going clicking sound with my tongue when I work around my own horse so that he always knows where I am in space.  With Tilley, I found that keeping that steady clicking noise going kept her aware of me and where I was at all times.  When I wanted her to go faster, I raised the volume and speed of my clicking.  When I lowered the volume and speed, she'd instantly react by slowing down and would continue to slow in rhythm with the clicking.  I found that her semi-blindness worked in favor of Join Up because she locked in that much more, was looking that much more for connection right from the moment I released her and sent her away.

Now, all that said, the major difference between Tilley and your horse is that she has a very close relationship with her owner and so is already interested in and trusting of humans.  Even though I was a total stranger, she was very receptive to a conversation with me.  I suspect, however, that despite the difference in handling, your horse will have the same heightened sensitivity to interaction.  That may in some ways make it more difficult initially - ie there may be a finer threshold at which she retreats - but I think having her uber-tuned in will ultimately be a plus for you.

I hope you'll update us all on how it 's going.  I'm so interested to hear what you and she discover together.

all best to you,
Maeve in New York
missotis13
Hello!
ps one important thing to add - at the point of Join Up, when I'd reversed her the third time, she was walking trekking right and had given me the four signals, she was walking with her blind side to me.  My first impulse was to cross further over then one normally would at the moment of inviting her so that I'd be in front of her and could be picked up by her outside eye but the instructor stopped me from doing that, instead saying to wait and let her find me as she did the turn in towards me in the center that they all do when they're ready for Join Up.  She did it almost immediately, I saw when she locked in on me and turned and invited her, an invitation which she eagerly accepted.  As I said before, because throughout she was intensely tuned into me, a direct result of her blindness, the Join Up and Follow Up were so much easier with her than with any of the other horses.
missotis13
Hello!
pps (sorry - thought of something else to clarify!) - the clicking noise I make is a very gentle click just with my tongue against the roof of my mouth right behind my teeth.  Very different from a cluck.  I just remembered that in raising and lowering the volume, the pitch would change too and that probably helps as well.
With Platypus, I make a distinct whistle to let him know that I'm approaching his field or his stall and he almost always answers me.  I only whistle as an alert of my arrival.  Over the two years he's been losing his vision, I've been very consciously developing a vocabulary of distinct sounds with him.  (and yes, he still gets all kinds of loving human words said to him too but I know the sound of those mean more to me than to him!)
Sigrid
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Hello Everyone 

Rosie had a foal a month ago so I didn’t do much work with her. When the foal is old enough I will start with Rosie again. She is very accepting of me to be around her foal and she is so close I could touch her but she still doesn’t want me to touch her. I will just keep on working to get it right. 
Thanks again for all the advice, much appreciated. 
bahila73
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Hello Sigrid;  The one thing that I might suggest for you to try with Rosie is to ignore her baby and concentrate your energies on Rosie herself.  Talk to Rosie while advancing and retreating.  Tell her what a beautiful baby that she has given the world.  Do this dance with her at the same time each day, maybe even twice a day.  Just remember to be VERY relaxed with your concentration of your thoughts.  You could even sweetin` the pot with your coming to her with a snack.  If she does not take the snack directly from you, then leave on the ground for her to find, because it will have your scent on it.  After some time, she will look forward to your coming each time  My experience with mothers and babies is that once they get passed their overriding instinct to protect their baby, they will gladly step back and share the baby with you.  I speak from 35 yrs. of bringing young foals into this life, and it`s a beautiful thing to say the least.  Give her a reason to share her baby.  NO FEAR !!!!

My best to you

Bud