Hi everyone, I'm really desperately hoping I can get some good advice on this one... About a year ago I had a brumby trucked down from the Pilbara region in WA (Australia) and, at 2 years old, he was not all that flash. You couldn't do much with him, he was skin and bone but good natured, no kick, bite or any type of aggression. I saw potential. For the past 12 months it's been all ground work, getting him used to being touched and led etc, have long reined him, floated him, had his feet done. Join up was so easy with him and I this horse has been a gem to work with. No melice. As I'm not a professisonal trainer, I have paid professional trainers to work with me through to this point. Two weeks ago, he came back from a couple of weeks of being broken to saddle (prior to this he had months of prep work) and the trainer mentioned he'd started to buck. He did it a couple of times with her and then it stopped. First week back at my place he was a little tense, but no buck. This weekend gone however, different story. As soon as i got on, he started up and eventually got me off. I got straight back on again, and after a few bucks, off again. This time i wasn't prepared top get back on as i could clearly see his intention was to get me off. I feel i have this great little horse and a huge bucking problem! Is once a bucker always a bucker? Should i invest any more time and money on this horse? I feel I've put so much into him and now I can't even get on him. Yes, I have has all things checked, gear, saddle and vet. The only thing I can think of is he isn't too keen on the girth, as every time i do it up he gets a bit upset about it (tenses up). Any advice is much appreciated!
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Hi Jordyn, have you long reined him with the saddle on & was he ok with that? I would carry on long reining him for now all tacked up.
If you can make or hire a mannequin (watch lessons TRAINING THE YOUNG HORSE: FIRST WEEK (6))use this instead of risking yourself getting injured.
The trouble with him having been sent away to be backed is that you don't know what went on while he was there & you mention that he was tense when he came back to you for the first week.
I certainly wouldn't right him off as before he went away, you say he was a little gem with you, so i would suggest he's frightened not nasty.
I think you just have to go back a few steps & regain his confidence with you.
Regarding the girth, it may have been yanked up harshly, pinched him or pulled his hair???
you could put a wool girth sleeve over the girth which will help if he's very sensitive; the skin is very thin there & there's also a bunch of nerves there. also, if you, stretch his front legs out in front of him once it's done up to make sure the skin is smooth under the girth, as a wrinkle will make him sore. another thing you can do is harden the skin up for him with Surgical spirit. I have to do that with my mare every spring when she changes her coat as it's so soft.
Take things very slowly again & don't risk a live rider until he's accepting & relaxed with a dummy on top.
I hope some of this is of help to you.
hi Jordyn, Wonderful and thorough advice from Beryl. You are so right Bery about not knowing what goes on when they are away! I had one lady who contacted me after she had sent her horse away, they wouldnt let her observe the training (which made me deeply suspicious as you can imagine!!) and the horse came back lame and walked off every time it saw the saddle!!
Hi Jordyn
We have taken on a bucker also and it's been through incorrect training he's ended up that way. Apparently at least 3 years he's been bucking. We're taking it very steady, same as Beryl has said, plus doing incremental steps making sure Pye is happy at every stage. In the pen and after a bit of lunging, we go through a set pattern, lining up with a step and standing patiently at the step. approaching the step with someone standing on the step, then standing next to the step and person. Leaning gently from the step to his back, just a hand/arm at first, then a leg resting on his back, then leg with a bit of weight and so forth. We don't move on to the next stage until he's become comfortable and is licking and chewing. Lessons are short and end on a positive note each time. Always asking for back up at the end of the lesson. On exiting the pen, we have a treat in a bowl (not by hand) ready for him so he can associate a reward after leaving the pen. Our dummy is made up of old trousers with riding boots on the end filled with heavy foam so he can feel legs dangling at his side. The dummy is attached to the saddle and girth to simulate leg movement on his sides. We're at the stage now where we're going to attached the body to the dummy. Remember you have all the time in the world to help gentle him along!
x
Super advice Mel; that's how i do it, gently leaning over as you described while grooming etc to make it just a part of everyday life.
Vicci, poor horse! yes, that's the trouble with sending them away to be backed for money, it gets rushed & the horse is suddenly taken over by strangers who's ways are different etc.
I wouldn't ever send a horse to anyone who wouldn't let you watch the training as it's a vital part of carrying on with them afterwards & i too would be very suspicious of their methods! It shouldn't be frightening for them if you take your time & do things safely & consistantly!
These horses have learned that bucking has an advantage for them, the longer this behaviour has been confirmed the more difficult is the correction. For the safety of the riders and to stop the behaviour immediatly I would introduce the buck stopper.
Rudi
Sorry Rudi, i totally disagree in this case, Jordyn's youngster has only just been backed & the buck stopper is inappropriate.
I agree Beryl, I feel this is more of a revisit the starting than a confirmed bucker
Thanks to everyone for contributing! Some really good advice and I have time on my side - so will take it slowly and hopefully get it right. I have heard of the buck stopper but I would only go down that path as the very last resort. I'm hopeful that it won't get to that. Many thanks again.
Good for you Jordyn, if you take it back to the start & slowly rebuild the trust, you'll get there fine.
The buck stopper is ONLY for very confirmed buckers, not youngsters at any level.
misschien zijn rug eens laten nakijken en anders eens kijken op de site paarden begrijpen van Marijke de jong in Nederland
Forgive my lack of other languages - can anyone translate please?
Hi Vicci, I can't translate dutch but I can let google translate lol
"maybe even check his back and different look at the site horses understand Marijke de Jong in Netherlands" (academicartofriding.com)
Marijke de Jong does straightness training and a lot of in-hand work
We had a similar problem with our little cob - trainer got 'bucked' off. I'd heard of the buck-stopper and suggested it (I'm pretty much a novice) and the trainer said NO. Instead we got a professional rider (good at staying on) and actually with good handling and going back to basics all is well. I think we rushed our boy without realising and his reaction (more of a bronk) was him telling us he wasn't quite ready for this riding lark and needed time to settle into things.
He hasn't done it again so we think it may've been that we were too complacent in the early stages and thinking he was more ready to be ridden than he was. Having taken several steps back he is now being ridden (still by the professional) and we've been reminded not to rush the youngsters - they need time. I'm not a vastly experienced owner and don't profess to have anything cutting-edge to contribute but one thing I'm learning is ... not to rush anything with youngsters.
Hope our experience helps you a bit and good luck with everything you're doing. Lizzie x
Just thought of something - if girth could be a problem, how about putting saddle on, doing girth up, then undoing and taking everything off and letting your pony have the release of everything 'going away'? That takes the pressure off. If you observe how he reacts after that it may help? Lizzie x
Dear Beryl and vicci
I did not realize the age of the horse. So you are right that the buck stopper is not the primary measure.
Rudi
Lizzie - a lovely story and a good reminder to us all that we need to stop, think, review, and start again sometimes, thanks for sharing it :-)
Rudi - I thought you maybe had not noticed as I know you would not normally recommend one for youngsters Rudi :-)
Lenore - many thanks for the translation!
Hi Rudi, i didn't think you'd realized the age either as i didn't think that would have been your advice.
Hi everyone,
I have approached a professional, very reputable trainer to have a look at my boy over a few days and give me her assessment about what the problem may be. Instantly she identified that he has an issue with moving forward. This makes so much sense to me and I wonder why it hadn't been identified earlier. I would love some advice on what sorts of things i can do to help him with 'moving forward' - perhaps there is a good DVD or book out there? My second thought is that he is simply NOT READY for the saddle. Clearly something has been rushed or he has missed some aspect of his training and he is bucking out of fear. Just yesterday when the trainer got on him, he suddenly tensed up and started bucking. As i have begun piecing all this together, I would love to take further advice on the sorts of things i could be doing with him to get him ready for the saddle. I am in no rush with him, and all the advice I have received so far has helped me get to this point of determining the root of the problem, so I thank you all!
continue long reining him with his saddle on, getting him turning & stopping & doing lots of transitions as many changes of transition will get him listening to you just the same as if you were schooling him under saddle. Make sure everything you do, he has the saddle on with stirrups down so her gets used to the flapping. Again, make or hire a dummy rider & introduce it slowly so he gets used to the height above him. I don't think it's the saddle but the rider he's having a problem with. you need to also work on getting him used to you standing on a bucket or similar as you groom him so you gradually get height over him & leaning over him, not getting straight on & trying to ride away.
Just interested to know if the trainer managed to stay on him once he started bucking. Do hope so as otherwise the bucking maybe becoming a bit in grained given he has won on a couple of occasions by getting rid of his rider. Have you let him go in the round yard for a join up with the saddle on as Monty does? Just thought that could help. My quarter horse has become a remedial bicker over the years because if he does have a bucking fit he knows he can get me off. Fortunately up until now I have not been hurt badly and have always managed to greet straight back on him and he hasn't tried it again at that stage. Part of the problem has been that he often has long spells between rides. I have gone back to lunging him under saddle before I ride him these days and that seems to help. It is difficult as sometimes he can be good for ages and then he will suddenly do it - often when he becomes excited or spooked. Good luck with your fellow - do hope you find the solution - some good advice from others here.
Hi Maggie, yes he did get her off - much to my, and her, surprise. I have decided to give him more time, desensitising and building confidence on the ground before attempting to get anyone on him again. I have been doing lots of long lining and lunging with the saddle on, and 95% of the time there is no buck, but on a couple of occassions he went for it, so clearly he is still not quite ready for a rider.
Not good but it sounds as if you are making progress now so well done. The worst thing we can do is to rush these horses. Have you watched Monty's new video with the mannequin rider -wouldn't it be great to have one of those to use but I guess they are expensive - perhaps you could improvise. The new thread to-day on the horse that spooked when his saddle slipped is thought provoking too.
After responding to it I went up and gave my mare a lesson on slipping saddles. Used my Shetland's pony saddle for the exercise - lighter and smaller and I didn't want to damage my good saddle if things went wrong. Initially just let it slip onto her side on both sides before I dropped it under her tummy. She was totally unphased by it. Tried it with my spooky QH too but only let it slip to the sides with him as I didn't wish him to be too stressed. He was very good too but more worried than Tricka..
I had a bucking brumby who would basically do verticle bucks...she was the lead mare in the herd hence the bucking and aggression she showed everyone, quitethe violent type... and still does buck.. there are some videos in the lessons about bucking and how to stop it with a buckstopper. This brumby we have is still bucking and very strong but we havnt yet tried a bucketopper but im assuming it should work for her. Sounds like you may be making some progress! Anyway, goodluck with your bucking horse and I hope all gets better! :)
Hiya all
our BamBam wasn't ready for riders for about a year after he was first saddled, over summer he had his first rider a young girl from the pony club, at first he responded very well, then he started mini bucks not enough to dislodge the rider but testing the ground, so after finishing his ride for that session I chose to leave him to just ground work over the winter and we'll start again in the spring. He's still growing at 3 1/2yrs
Remember there is no rush for what we want our horses to do, we want to enjoy our time with them as much on the ground and have fun so when we first ride that fun can continue in a partnership.
Pye who I mentioned earlier in the thread is now happy for me to put all of my weight on him and stand still for 5 mins, little steps to build a confident horse.
Mel x
Hi Jordyn :)
Just wanted to say g'day from another former Pilbaralite :)
Dear Jordyn, My best advice is to put aside what you feel is "much time put in" and look upon it from the horses point of view. This will give you the advantage of being a super good horse owner knowing your horse is the one deciding how much time he needs.
I have a mustang that has needed 4 times of "starting up" - his latent learning curve is slow yet fantastic - the key is no tension what so ever in every step, and this will give him good "DVD´s" to put in every time we step it up a notch! So, go to work with a big smile and a big heart for you horses learning curve - it is up to us to make the environment as positive as possible. Remember to end on good notes and find that fine line of raising the bar when you have accomplished good associations, all four signs at place for every step and work incrementally. Good Luck! Warm Regards MR CI Ann Lindberg Sweden