just tried it again the way monty does it in the movie "You and your Wild Horse". He puts them in a shoot made out of pannels and touches them all over with a hand he made...The horse blew up and broke all the pannels...I could really use your input I'm at a loss I have never failed a horse but this is the first one I have ever tried that was beaten before.

This sounds like an extreme and potentially dangerous situation, I don't know how experienced you are, but is there a Monty Roberts certified instructor within travelling distance who would be able to come and do an objective assessment for you? Or failing that an experienced trainer that follows similar non-violent methods. Despite you having achieved Join Up it sounds as though he still has major trust issues and with a remedial horse like this it can get very dangerous as their reactions are usually very different to a horse that has not been abused. If you have no experience of dealing with a beaten horse there is no shame at all in asking for professional help. How many times did you do Join Up and Follow Up? It may be necessary to carry out the procedure several more times to get the horses real trust before introducing any external stumuli such as plastic bags or whatever. This is not going to be an overnight project, it will be a slow gradual process which needs to be carried out with the utmost care and regard for safety. Before you try anything else I implore you to seek professional assistance to set you on a safe path to success, it would be terrible if either you or the horse was hurt in any way.

Hello
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I have to second what emlaw has advised. Ensure your safety first.
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The other thing I would like to mention here is that when Monty worked with the brumby in the You and your wild horse video, he allowed the wild horse to become friends with an older and experienced gelding for a month or so before they started working with him. This way when the work began, the wild horse had a friend with him to kind of show him the way. You probably already know that and did this I guess because you said you did it the way Monty did it, so I am sorry if I am off track.
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My husband and I use our good old gelding Ranger with our foals and it makes the work so much easier.
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We also watched another of Monty's videos called Rosie. The one thing that really stood out for me when I watched these videos was that there was a lot of work done to get the horses ready for join-up. I really didn't realize how much preparation had to be done with the mustangs before doing join-up till I watched these DVDs. I would assume this would also be the case with any untouched horse and any horse that has major trust issues resulting from abuse or neglect.
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I don't know if any of this is of use to you, but you do have to prepare your horse for join-up and then once that's done, move onto the desensitizing. Good job on achieving join up though. You have done a great job there. If it were me, I would go from join up to dually halter work to educate the horse on respecting your space etc before desensitizing...
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But I do Definately agree with emlaw that this is a very dangerous situation and it would not hurt to get a professional in to have a look and provide proper guidance.
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Stay safe, and good luck :-)
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Kind regards,
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Gen

Something you might try. Go in the corral but keep your distance. Dont appear to pay attention to him, but keep your eye on him to make sure you know where he is at all times. Take a plastic bag or something and just kind of rattle it around a bit, doesnt really matter what it is, but stay away from him and do things. Walk around and ignore him, but STAY AWAY from him. Just be a bit noisy, not really noisy but a little, and keep moving, standing, whatever, until he starts wondering about you. It will take time. But sooner or later, I think he will come to see what you are up to. Dont touch him, but let him touch you if he wants, if he does this, just stand still. I would suggest keeping close to fence in case you have to get away. If he doesnt threaten you in any way, try sitting, again, close to the fence where you can roll under it if you have to, and let him check you out. DONT MOVE if he does, unless you have to. Only try this if the fence is high enough to scoot under in a hurry. He is scared to deasth of people, who are usually big, in his opinion, so if you sit, you are small, and not so much of a threat. I have done this with several wild horses, and it has always worked. But it takes time. And in his case, it will take even more, but dont give up on him. TALK to him, slow and soft. But BE CAREFUL at all times. Dont move fast around him, slow and easy. If you dont feel comfortable sitting inside, sit as close to the fence as you can, and just sit there, read a book or something, and ignore him. Even abused horses are curious. Let him get used to the idea that you are there and not hurting him. And if there is a professional around who isnt violent in any way, get advice from him or her. I totally agree with that. But this horse will not change overnight. So take your time. And working with a calm, gentle horse around him will help too. Do the whole desentitizing thing with the calm horse in full view of the abused one, so he can see its ok, but dont try it with him yet.

I would definitely agree with both of these assessments of this situation. Remember that the young wild mustang in the video was never abused, Monty was working with a blank slate. The horse you're working with has major issues and should not be handled by anyone but a professional, it's not worth getting hurt over. I would absolutely find one of Monty's trainers if possible to assess this horse.
Good luck,
Kleinne

Yes - this is a potentially really dangerous situation particularly given his reaction to the panels. I am in total agreement with Emlaw and Gen. Certainly leave anything that may be scary for him such as plastic bags out of the equation until you have gained his trust - sounds like this may well take a long time. An older quiet horse may really help - my Pie was abused and really dangerous in the paddock sometimes after a vet or farrier's visit - especially if needles had been involved. I used to hide behind my quiet horse who was her boss to talk to her and encourage her to me at these times. (Ooops! apologies Monty but I actually fed her carrots passing them underneath my old horse neck - naturally he had plenty too.) Do stay safe as this is a scary one. I would stay out of his yard initially when he is free and just try to make friends through the fence. They can be so quick and dangerous if they decide to attack and you wouldn't be able to move quickly enough. Certainly don't sit down with this one - they move and strike so quickly and will attack smaller animals e.g. dogs even when they are still and hence humans too. If you can get a dually on him then make sure that you have a long lead line so that you have plenty of flexibility plus gloves. I would also have a wand (Pat Parelli type) or dressage whip attached behind me which I could grab quickly. Not to whip him with but to shake at him if he does decide to invade my space aggressively. An abused horse will usually back off when they see a whip as that is what is usually used during the abuse. Try to avoid using it but without having it ready they may just keep coming. You will need both hands so attach the wand/whip behind you but make sure you wont trip on it if you need to move back quickly. I would be running for a Monty trainer with this one. Remember that some horses are just too damaged by humans to be repaired. A totally wild horse is so much easier to train than a horse that has become wild and aggressive due to bad human experiences. Phantommustang's advice would be fine for a totally wild horse but I do not think I would try it with this one until you have gained his trust - just talk to him outside the yard for awhile! Good luck and keep us up to date with your progress.

Yes, you are right, Maggie. I wasnt.

Hi there

We took on some rescue ponies and one of them tried to strike out and we were terrified. I stopped trying to do anything until I got a Monty trainer in to help and it has made all the difference.

The other thing that made a difference was that we just spent time in the ponies' field and did NOTHING. We went and spent hours sitting near by - bringing a flask of tea, sandwiches and a paper we just sat and 'hung out' with the ponies so they got used to us being around. Sometimes they would ignore us for over an hour but we didn't look at them and eventually they couldn't resist coming over. They didn't march over but kind of carried on grazing but got closer and closer until they came up to us. We then stroked their foreheads - no looking in the eyes - just looked at their chests or to the ground. From these small beginnings we made progress - but it was the trainer that began the real work and it was invaluable - he unlocked the door and enabled us to start doing things with the ponies.

It really sounds like you need a Monty trainer to come and start things off. I know from our experience how much danger we were in by trying to do things we weren't experienced enough to deal with. It sounds like this horse needs very very slow work done before trying anything too ambitious. Maybe just spend time being with him so he understands you mean him no harm?

I wish you lots of luck and really hope things work out. I'm sure everyone who has replied to you will be interested in how things go so do update us? Regards, Lizzie

You should get help if you can afford it. Things will go much faster that way.
When we brought our Abused Horse home, he had his space that we did not invade. His safe place to hang out. Then we did all sorts of things outside of his corral. The more he got use to us doing normal everyday things the curiouser he became. Eventually he came over to the fence to get a closer look. We were building him a shelter, He saw us carry ladders, climb ladders, drill screws in the wood. Many different noises and motions, But Nothing was ever directed at him. We would look at the horse and talk to him as we walked be his fence to get supplies. We ate lunch a safe distance from his fence, yet close enough he could come smell us but not touch. He learned that he was part of our lives and we were not going to hurt him. I never tried to desensitize him with plastic bags etc until he trusted me and I trusted him! An abused horse can Hurt You beyond all understanding in a blink of an eye.
Good Luck, Please Find a Monty Roberts Instructor like the others said. Enjoy the horse and let him get used to your quiet daily chores from a safe distance. If he want to Flee or lash out he can and that is OK. He is in his safety of his corral learning that these new people are Ok.
BTW My guy is now enjoying the company of strangers including my grandchildren. It has been a very long year and a half. But we were also dealing with his health and pain issues.

Great comments, Amberpony. It is so good to read your update here - I remember the problems you had over a year ago. So pleased that your guy has made such great progress.

Hi jkula

I have nothing new to add really other than to offer support and agreement with everyone else. It sounds like you are moving too quickly; this horse has, from his experience, no reason to trust anyone. Take it very very slowly and accept his terror and let him learn trust before anything else. I wish you well, its not an easy thing to do and as everyone else says, keep yourself safe and get as much help as is available to you. Good luck!

I have a situation that's the same, but NOT the same. My daughter got a horse a year ago and he was VERY people friendly. We went to visit him at the farm and he was very comfortable with people. Loading him on the trailer was a breeze even though it was his first time ever on one. Once we got him home, we began to discover little flaws. The main one being, that he was never approached in a field and caught. He was "rounded up" into a barn. Once in the security of the barn, he was fine. So, every time we went to get him away he would go! So, we began just ignoring him. Going in, visiting the other horses and COMPLETELY ignoring him unless, he approached us. Then we would talk to him, let him smell us. I would hold out my hand, and leave it HIS choice whether he wanted to touch my hand. After a few months, he began to realize, that just because we came into the field, didn't mean that he was going to be chased. We progressed to being able to touch his nose, then worked our way to his neck and so on. It took a LONG time to get to this point. Once he was comfortable being touched, we progressed to getting a halter on him and just holding onto him, and letting go. So, the situation is a bit different but it takes LOTS of time to change an issue.