I have a 5mo old rescue filly, which we've now had for almost 2 months. She was pretty thin when we got her, and she lost her mom very early. We handle her every day. She's overall a really nice girl, except when it comes to feeding grain. She will invade the feeder's space, hover over the feed can, nod her head up-and-down with impatience. Real pushy behavior for such a youngster as I foresee it getting worse as she grows older if I don't solve the problem. She's not kept in the stall but that is where she is fed her grain. The feed can is just outside her stall. I've tried to avoid the behavior (hoping it will be 'forgotten') by keeping a scoop of food elsewhere and, basically sneaking it into her bucket. I also try feeding her hay elsewhere first to distract her, but often if she sees me heading for the stall she comes over and starts her 'invasion'. A trainer told me I should whack her near her underside with a piece of pvc. I don't know if that kind of correction is appropriate. I'd rather she make the decision to behave herself. Avoidance does not seem appropriate either. I'd love to receive input, as I've never raised a youngster and I'd really like to know, from experienced people, what I am doing wrong and how to correctly address this situation.
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Hi. NO WHACKING! I've got a yearling colt & a 7 month old filly, both home bred & neither have ever been hit with anything. They trust me & are a joy. Because your filly lost her mother early she is bound to have food issues, especially as she was under weight when you got her. You need to separate the food preparation & the foal. Even if you need to put up a fence - so she waits to be released to where her food is waiting for her. You could make yourself a preparation paddock. Then give her access to the food & leave her to finish it. If you need more help please ask; that's what we're here for. Cheers, Jo.
Thanks for the input! I also used my crop this morning. When she got in my space (she often hovers at the chicken coop gate), I used the handle end to push her away to create distance between us, accompanied with a "No". As hungry as she was, she complied and I told her she was a good girl. I'm trying to figure out the actual feeding ritual. My question on separating her from the food prep...should her paddock be located where she cannot see me put the food in her stall? She certainly knows what everyone's grain sounds like when it is placed in the feeder! Ha ha! Then again, I wonder if I increase the frequency of her feedings (decreasing the qty) if that might help as well. I guess I need to do some experimenting.
If the goal is to teach her to respect your space then that is separate. And yes please no wacking...she is young and you have a clean slate to work with. I would suggest preparing the feed into buckets ahead of time, placing in the areas and feed/turn in the impatient one last. I actually have found over the fence buckets which allow me to take the feed out to those in pasture and space them out nicely along the fences reducing the habit that they rush to enter the barn strictly for feeding. My gelding who was often without feed before I purchased him off kijiji is much better now that he has access to a round bale consistently - it's not my favourite way of feeding but works for him. he is eager for his grain but not aggressive as he once was. I believe in Montys book from my hands to yours or in the questions and Answers section Monty also suggests horses should be left alone while they eat.
Found it! 9/14/2011: What do you do with a horse that pins her ears when you feed her?
Monty’s Answer: If a horse should own any part of the day, it’s when they’re eating. When you feed a horse, leave them alone. Get the feed to them as easily as you can without mixing in at all, then leave them alone. Give them plenty of time to eat. This is not a time when they ought to be pleased with having you in their lives. Horses that are cranky when they’re fed are cranky because they want you out of their life and they want the tranquility of being able to eat without being bothered by a human being. You wouldn’t want them coming and hanging their head over your table when you’re having lunch, and they feel the same way. So, it is best to leave your horse alone when you feed them.
Hi. I was leading my pony, Max, back from the arena a couple of weeks ago - he's on his holidays due to a vetinary hair cut & witnessed the following. Large, hungry cob mare called Molly in stable, owner trying to put bucket of food in to her. Molly trying to push the door open to reach food & owner shouting & slapping at her head in an effort to back her up. I called to owner to stop shouting/slapping but was ignored & what followed was exactly what I was expecting. Molly got so agitated she burst through the door, her owner was nearly trampled, which on concrete could easily have been serious. Molly didn't go very far & it all ended up ok but that is a perfect example of how 'not to do it'. The trouble is that kind of misunderstanding, if repeated, will result in Molly developing undesirable behaviours at feeding time. Withholding food is not going to improve matters. It would have been better if the owner had simply swung the stable door open, let Molly loose & walked into the stable with the bucket of food. Molly would have followed her & the owner could have put the bucket down & safely exited. Cheers, Jo.
Hi imagoddessleo, I wanted to add something. For the most part no horse will ever get the meaning of "NO". Horses (for the purpose of this discussion) don't vocalize there wants and needs. The language of Equis is "body language".
Your idea of feeding as often as possible is good. Horses are grazers. But horses also need and demand structure. A routine if you will. So try not to mix up feeding times and frequency to much. You don't want to be having the horse eating during turnout, workout or training times.
Also, this horse if indeed needs to fattened up with lots of extra feeding. Try to keep the feeding area away from other horses. This is typically true in a boarding, pipe corral situation. Feeding your horse will pressure all the other horses. Just you driving up will set everyone off. Why? Because horses use their eyes, ears and sense of smell. They will hear you (and know the vehicle you drive) and see you long before you ever get to your horses stall. And they know exactly what you are doing: It's feeding time again!. Good luck to you, Greg
Imagoddessleo, let me add this as well. You mentioned you used the crop handle to push your filly out of you space. This is my suggestion:
Stand tall, chest out, head high, EYES-ON-EYES. If this doesn't make the filly step back. Then reach out to her face (but don't touch or strike) with a big open hand as fast as you can. Hold your hand right in her face. If this does make her back out of your space. Reach down to the nose at the bone/cartilage intersect. With the thumb, forefinger on eitherside and crux of the thumb right over top. Push her muzzle down and pinch the cheek bones while pushing her backwards. You might even want to say back,back,back. This will imitate the unconformable pressure applied by a Dully Halter. If she steps back remove you hand as quickly as possible. But still applying body language the you want her out of you space. As soon as she is out of you space relax and rub her head. If she moves back in aggressively. Repeat the exercise. If she tentatively moves back into your space let it go and move on to your new feeding practices. The next time she gets into you space repeat the exercise but become a little less tolerant of inattentive movements into your space. To the point she will not even think of moving in on you or hovering in your area. Baby steps. Maybe a week or so. Also get a Dully Halter as soon as possible and start schooling her. Again good luck you, Greg
Hi Jo and Greg, interesting how different barn setups vary and impact how we manage the challenge but with the same principles. Since I am working with horses primarily on turnout 24/7 here in Canada and young or special needs feeding horses would be separated out in similar groups or adjacent paddocks or brought in as necessary to feed. the order of feeding and anticipation is managed by that process. In the boarding barns I worked at where horses were stabled at night routinely we would feed in order along the barn and not make any special accommodations to feed the door bangers or weavers first since this would only reinforce their response... Nothing would be withheld... just a calm steady routine. Definitely agree with Greg on the Dually and backing up learning as well...Enjoy the filly imagodessleo!
All great advice but I am going to throw one cat amongst the proverbial pigeons :-) I constantly hear"...they like routine and should be fed at the same time each day etc" Well, I like chocolate, doesn't mean it's good for me and you only need to see the size of my rear end to know this..... :-). My point it, just because they like it does not mean it's the right thing to do/good for them. Routinised feeding times set up expectations and irritations when there is a delay - this can lead to distress and behavioural issues in the horses and anxiety in the human because they know that the horse "is waiting for his tea!". I see nothing wrong with variable feeding schedules - it eliminates the routine of inappropriate behaviour and the horse is not "clock watching" and making associations that lead to feeding time.
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Door bangers: I worked with one as follows: approach with feed, she kicked the door, I walked away with the food, hid round the corner and waited for one minute/till she stopped kicking. Came back with the food, she kicked, I walked away. She very quickly learnt that kicking sent the food away. After four attempts she stopped and I walked in, put the food down, closed the door, walked away and left her to eat. She never kicked again. She is an exceptionally smart horse and others may need more goes at it but it does work.
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Weavers is a different issue. This is a stable vice with lots of reasons linked to confinement but I do take your point LMS. However, while you may not think you were responding to the kickers and weavers I respectfully suggest that you were without realising it; it clearly worked for them as they got their tea in the end. If it didn't work, they wouldn't keep doing it. Animals work by association: if I do this, that happens.
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Kelly Marks has a great saying. If your horse is displaying a negative behaviour, imagine that you had decided to train him to do that, what would you do. When you work out how to do it you realise how it happened and can then UNdo it!
I absolutely agree with Ms. Vicci, 100%. I hope and am sorry if my suggestion about routine of work and feeding got thrown together. Feeding can be anytime 24 hours a day. Provided it's not all at once and it's the right amount of feed over a 24 hour period. By all means, mix it up when it comes to feeding. Horses remember and learn faster than Pavlov's dogs.
Hi there,
I teach all the horses at my barn to back away with a cue (shaking my index finger, saying "back up" while looking them in the eye)and wait for them to back away from their food bowl before I dump the feed in each time.(I found that this actually teaches more personal respect even when they aren't in a stall as well so I suggest that everyone try it)
When starting just give the backup cue, and wait until they move away from their bowl, (sometimes it can take longer than 15 minutes, that happened once with a really big rude horse) then dump the food. Just ignore any rude behavior like striking the stall wall, butting their head at you, and keep giving the cue until they turn or back far enough away that you can safely dump the food. If you start to dump it and they rush back, just step back and begin cueing to back away again until they do. Make sure that you're out of their reach so they can't yank the bucket or knock it out of your hands though. After a few days they figure it out and turn their head away without even being asked. Hope this helps everyone out, it certainly has improved my work days at the barn :) -Lily
Forgot to mention, we always let the horses come inside before putting feed in their buckets, for reasons of environment (feed room is outside and opens into pasture, barn opens directly to pasture also)