Hi. I've read your post carefully several times before responding. It's my belief that this horse has been frightened by someone, either whilst you were away for the weekend or you have progressed too quickly & got out of his comfort zone to where he cannot mentally cope. Your catching system says to me that you never had full co operation. In your situation I would go back to the start & begin again. Keep children away from him for now - he's not safe for them & they are excitable for him. Do join up & spend calm, quiet time just letting him know what a nice boy he is. Groom him, not to get him clean but to let him enjoy it. Spend time working on the areas of his body that he really enjoys. Show him you're his partner not his enemy. Nip this behaviour in the bud - with love & understanding, not violence. Your obligation is to not put yourself in the situation where you feel the need to slap him. You can make this horse relaxed & happy - you need to be relaxed & happy with him to do that. Good luck & keep in touch. Cheers, Jo.

Hiya, I have a recently gelded 2 year old thoroughbred who has not had a lot of handling. I have only had him for 5 weeks. He gets stroppy when he doesn't get his own way or when he has had enough of what is going on. When this happens, he likes to use his feet, front and back. His behavior is teaching me that I have to go slowly. I need to push him a little past his comfort zone but not too far or he reacts to say 'enough'. This could be the same with your horse. He is trying to tell you something. Listen, learn and he will respond. Easy for me to say but the more I watch people who can do this, the more I see how it works :)

Hi Jo
What I have done the last two days just so that I could get close to him is giving him grain in a bucket that I held in my hand and rubbing his forehead with the other hand at first he jumped away but now I can rub his head, neck and slip the lead on the halter without him fleeing, can lead and groom him, I will do this for a few days before I do the join up again, just one question on the join up and it coat my attention with the last join up, is it essential that he drops his head before I stop him for the join up if he does not drop his head what to do, most certainly I cannot keep on keeping him away from me for that long or do I, all the other signs are there except for the dropping of his head or are all Arabs heads always high as it is natural to them.

Hi. Yes, Arabs have beautiful heads held high. I believe your boy is stressed & so will be unlikely to put his nose right down by his feet. However, he should offer you a dip in his head carriage. You must push him away & be very observant for ANY cooperation, ensuring you react immediately & appropriately. Remember slow is faster. I've found ending each session with a familiar task, especially when it's been challenging, makes the horse more enthusiastic the next time round. I'm also an enthusiastic scratcher & my guys love it. I use food too with great results. Good luck & keep posting. Cheers, Jo

Hi Naude and all,
Arabs are very sensitive and easily stressed, they need a leader like any other horse.
High head carriage means they try to keep control of the situation, it's not a desirable and to me not even a beautiful way to hold their heads. I've seen Arabs relax and immediately lower their head, it's not a natural attitude to them to keep it high. They need their handler to show them they're safe, just like your horse shows you he's in distress. In my opinion he's had a bad experience during your weekend, but that's past now, take the situation as it is and work from that.
Be his natural leader, convince him that you're taking care of him and you'll see his neck relax and his head come lower. Is he a gelding?
Start anew with your training, giving him lots of praise and things to do he likes, build up a new and steady relationship, without asking too much of him.
Keep us posted,
Miriam

Hi
Yes he is a gelding, sins my last post he has not attacked me but yesterday my oldest son came in to the paddock wear I was cleaning up then he attacked him, I am getting the idea that it stresses him up when there are more than one person around him, this makes it difficult as I need someone to hold him when I tack him up and getting in to the saddle

Hi. In your situation I would be concentrating on building trust & confidence in this horse rather than progressing his training. This weeks news letter - the broken spirited pony suggested protocols are perfect for your situation. Cheers, Jo.

Interesting your last comment....why does someone have to hold him while you tack him up and get on him?

Hi Jo
Where do I find the newsletter I looked but cannot find it.
Do you have any suggestions on what I can do to build trust & confidence in him maybe you can tell me something’s that I have not thought of. Yesterday was a real downer for me, when I tried to pick up his front feet he would not let me at all but two weeks ago I could pick up his feet no problem.
I am starting to think that someone tried something with him while I was gone for the weekend messing up everything I tried to build, I not giving up even if I have to get step by step instructions from someone every single day until my horse is back to wear he was.
Thanks for your help

Hi
I work with both dogs and horses and the one thing I can tell you is that 4 weeks is not enough time for all their "quirks" and behaviours to show themselves so I fear there is more to come.
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Animals can be subdued for a while in a new home and then after about 4-6 weeks they start to show who they really are. I'm sorry yesterday was a bad day, it can be so disappointing. I agree with Jo that the relationship and ground manners must come first but I also wonder if this is the right horse....what do you think? This is a big project if he has never been trained before and you may have to think of him as an unhandled horse and start right from the very beginning, do you have the option to return him or have you fallen in love with him?

Hi. If you don't get the newsletter I'll pass on the essence of it. Give him a reason to want to come to you. Start with Join up & then work with plastic carrier bags on a garden cane. As he's young & inexperienced start with just a padded end on the cane & work up with a few bags rolled up in an elastic band. Keep looking for signs of relaxation, yawning, licking & chewing. Make sure he's comfortable before moving on to a cane with more plastic. Once he's accepting a lot of plastic being rubbed all over his body, take him out in the paddock & go back to the first cane. Work your way through the various levels of plastic again. Use a 30 ft line for all this type of training. When you feel his acceptance is high & he's relaxed take off the line & see if he will allow you to continue rubbing him with the cane without restraint. I would also suggest that, when you bring him in from the paddock, you put a bucket with a small quantity of grain or carrots where you are taking him to. Put the bucket in place before you fetch the horse & stand back while he eats. Then turn him loose back in the paddock. Replenish the bucket & repeat. You'll be amazed how quickly he will work out that being caught & brought in is a great thing. I'd do the bucket exercise first. To do both exercises together is probably too much for him to cope with just now. Allow yourself at least an hour for the plastic exercise. Go slow & get it right. Let us know how it goes. Cheers, Jo.

Hi Vicci I am not giving up just yet and if there is more to come I will deal with it as it pops up and yes I have fallen in love with him, I could return him but he was given to me as a present the day before he was going to be sold to the slaughterhouse so it has to go really bad and dangerous before I would even consider giving him back even then I would rather let him grow old with the other horse even if it means we could not get close to him.
Jo. This weekend went very well, Friday I brought up my leader horse and one of my really soft mares to be with him, Saturday we worked in and around the paddock while they were moving around us just grazing for the whole day, as the other horses were calm around us he was too, I did what you suggested on leading him to his bucket of grain, on Sunday afternoon I could catch him without treats in my hand, I did join up again and the stick with the plastics on after that I put the saddle on and let him run with it till he was okay with it and there I stopped for the day. I left him with the other horse after that so that he have friends later the day we went to give all the horse grain and again I could catch him easy by just walking up to him, will see what he does this afternoon.
Thanks a lot your help has given me lots of faith in him

Hi Naude. So pleased things are going in the right direction. You can register for the weekly news letter on the Dashboard page. On the right hand side, under Things To Do - Get free ..... I'm sure you'll find it. It's under your accreditations, about, half way down the list of possibilities. I had to email as a few arrived & then they stopped, twice - must have been some technical issue. The previous info is under Q & A so you can find it all here & won't have missed a thing. Keep in touch. Cheers, Jo.

I wish you well Naude, he is lucky to have found such a devoted home - keep us updated, I'm looking forward to hearing about his progress :-)

Hi Naude, and sorry for the lateness in getting involved. We've a Welsh D x Arab but he's rather more Arab than Welsh. He's 5 now. We have to take it very slowly and calmly with him all the time. Any raise in energy levels he interprets it as a challenge. We've had him 3 years now and even now we have to make sure our energy levels stay low with him. He was a rescue and we do not know what happened in his first 21 months of life, but we were his 5th owners. Even still with doing everything Monty has shown with his feet and the gentle methods used, he takes lots of time and patients to do his feet still. Deep rooted issues take time, but very well worth it. We wouldn't be without BamBam :D Keep Calm!!! xx

Hi All
The last three days have been going better and better I can again pick up his front feet, with the plastic bags he is starting to become more calm, can stand by his side rubbing all over his body without a line and he stands still, not behind him yet but moving more and more towards the back of him, putting up the saddle is getting better just the noise of the buckles still skiers him but he does not move just picks up his head and ears are logged on to the noise of the buckles, I even had him going into the trailer and backing out without any problems the last two days.
Going slow but at least going forward.
As Monty seas slow is faster
Thanks Naude

That's such good news Naude, I'm so glad it's going well, you still seem to think it's slow - it isn't!! Your progress has been great, it's been less than two months, you're doing fine :-)

Excellent Naude, the trust you two will build will bring amazing results!!!

x

Great news - keep it going. Did you find the newsletter? Cheers, Jo.

Hi All
This last week has been exceptional, I took him on a trail that went well, just one`s he spooked a lot because of a white rock behind a brush bucked ones but calmed down immediately and went on cantering, after that all was great, two days later we went on a another trail there everything was great, here and there was things that spooked him a little but nothing meagre, as all green horses spook in the start of their training with exception of some, I mount and dismount a lot on the trials to get him to stand still, now it is just the mount that still needs to be perfected dismount is perfect, tacking up is still slow so I don’t spook him but I do it alone now no one holding him anymore.
I am so so proud of him and foresee a great long relationship between Colby and me.
I would just like to thank all of you for the advice and encouragement the past weeks you were very helpful.
Godbless you all
Naude

Jo Sorry yes I did find the newsletter thanks

Congratulations Naude, I'm really pleased for you, nice to hear it's going so well.

Hi Naude - sounds like you're doing brilliantly! Just one little thought - how about just going to spend time with him when you don't do anything at all but just sit quietly near him? With my nervy boy I spent times where I just took a folding chair and a flask of tea and just sat nearby and did nothing with him. He would graze nearby by and eventually come over to say 'hello' and get a lovely scratch and some quiet words. Your little fella may just simply enjoy hanging out with you with no pressure on him every few days or so? All best wishes, Lizzie

Congrats to your progress, Naude! :)

Brilliant Naude :)

Necesito ayuda! tengo dos yeguas de 4 años. Siempre fueron asustadizas pero logre mucha confianza con ellas, me veian llegar, y venian a mi encuentro dabamos caminatas y me seguian las dos siempre. Desde hace un mes saludan y se acercan cuando llego pero a una distancia de unos metros y luego se van. Cuando las busco ya no quieren que las toque, bajan sus orejas y hasta me enfrenta una de ellas. Ya no puedo acariciarlas ni acercarme, tambien muestran violencia si las quiero llevar con una cuerda.Nunca fueron asi, han cambiado del dia a la noche. Estan bien de salud. Imagino un maltrato fuera de mi presencia, como puedo volver mi relacion con ellas como era antes?
muchas gracias!!!

I'm sorry, I don't speak Spanish. I used Google translate and this is what it showed, I hope it is right. Please forgive me if it is not accurate
:
I need help! I have two mares 4 years. They were always scary but achieved very confident with them , they saw me coming, and went to (find my thumb walks - this is clearly a mistranslation) and two always followed me . For a month greet and approach when I arrive but at a distance of a few meters and then leave. When I look and do not want to touch them , they lower their ears and faces up to me one of them. And I can not pet them or approach , also show violence if I want to take a rope. Never were so , changed from day to night. They are in good health. I imagine mistreatment out of my sight, as I can turn my relationship with them as it was before ?
thank you very much !!!
:
My understanding is that you have 2 mares who you have orked with to increase their confidence but you still cannot touch them. If ou try, they leave. They become aggressive when a rope is shown and you think they have been badly treated in the past. Is that right?
:
If I could have one wish it would be to be fluent in all languages....what a gift that would be.
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Lo siento por no comprender plenamente

Naude- Glad everything is going well for you. We had a situation once where kids were getting into the field and chasing the horses round and round. It really stressed them out. Your comments about him going for the kids make me wonder if there is anything going on that you are not seeing? Are there kids that hang around up there? It might not be the usual kids but their mates. Its the way the first signs of his agressive moments were aimed at kids that makes me wonder if he is trying to tell you something. Of course I may be totally wrong!!!
Sarah

Good point Sarah - we just don't know what's happening when our backs are turned! There is a public footpath alongside and through my field and I am sure someone is feeding my fat pony!!! if I catch them............. :-)

Hi I have an Andalusian and he just wont stop waiving his head around when im standing and leading him, he mussles me all the time and even nips, bends his head right down and nips my calves, I had him in the dually for two hours today and it took an hour just to establish some sense of order with him, he was full on. It is just the case I need to keep at him for a week or two with the dually? By the way i did get some improvement after two hours

Hi Greg
:
The Dually is a great tool for this, but like all tools, we have to learn to be really good with them :-) It sounds like you are correcting him a bit too late if it took 2 hours. Important to correct as soon as he is aiming for the unwanted behaviour and to release the correction the instance he retreats rather than trying to do it after. So, for example...there will be a pattern to the behaviour so watch closely for the patterns and signs and correct him straight away. Any sign of his head turning towards you for example to try and put his mouth on you, back him up straight away and then release and carry on as if nothing happened. He will soon get the message that you are being firm but fair.
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Couple of extra things to think about...make sure you are not holding him too tightly - very irritating for horses; loose line when leading and don't 'lean' on the halter when you are leading and especially not when standing still (not suggesting you do but many people do and as I can't see you....:
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Make sure there's no other physical cause - is he waving his head around anywhere else when not in halter?
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Ensure Dually is not too tight - again this can be irritating to him.
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Let us know how you get on

Hi Greg. Follow the lessons on the Uni, get a copy of From My Hands to Yours, be clear, consistent, calm & fair & you'll have no limits. However, I'm a bit concerned. You do not mention doing Join up, only working in the Dually. Monty's methods work! But like anything else in life you need to follow ALL the proven steps & not cherry pick. Riding a bicycle without handlebars is not recommended, especially if you've just stopped using your training wheels. Please use the whole package as that will ensure your success & the success of your horse. You'll both have such great fun. Cheers, Jo

Vicci - this is the translation of pauce's post:

I need help! I have 2 mares, 4 year-olds. they've always been spooky but I worked with them and they trusted me a lot, when they would see me they would come to me. We used to go for a walk and they always followed me. Since one month ago, they say hello, come near but stay at distance (couple of meters) and then go away. When I come to them, they don't want to be touched anymore, they put their ears flat and one of the mares confronts me. I can't rub them anymore or get near them. They also show signs of violence if I want to take them away with a rope. They've never been like this, they've changed from one day to another. They're both healthy. I imagine that someone treated them badly when I was not present, how can I get back relationship I once had with them? Thanks a lot!!

Both English and Spanish are not my mother tounge so I hope I translated well!

Pauce - traduci tu mensaje en ingles, espero que te vamos a ayudar. Si nececitas, puedo traducir sus respuestas en español para ti. Suerte!

Phew, thank you - I apologise to Pauce for my (or Google's!) poor attempt but I didn't want her/him to think the message was ignored.
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Pauce - could you tell us some more about these horses. How long have you had them? Are they living away from your home? Who else (horse and human) shares the space they are in? How often do you see them? Many thanks.