I have a 14 year-old 16.3hh paint gelding with a heart of gold who has one very bad ground habit which has caused him to be passed around to numerous owners before I bought him almost 2 years ago.
He takes off under halter. 80% of the time he's beautifully behaved but when he goes it's spontaneous and he's off regardless of whose leading him. It's not a spook thing, there's no trigger, it's not malicious (although it's disrespectful) and apparently it's something he's done since he was 3 years old.
He's stabled at an equestrian centre and is used as a school horse so obviously it's frightening for the riders as he's a big guy and of course if those leading him are already anxious he's more likely to do it.
I believe that he was probably never properly halter-trained and a friend told me just today about the Dually Halter. Tonight I've watched all the videos, read all the reviews, joined the forum and am looking forward to getting one - after I measure "Bobby's" head to make sure I size it properly.
My question is ..... can this type of lifetime habit be corrected in a horse? Or is it now so deeply ingrained in his personality that the Dually will become a deterrent but never a cure?
(BTW, it's scary for me sometimes too. He's my first horse and was my 60th birthday present after not riding for 45 years. Everything else about him is perfect and he's the only other "man" in my life who makes my husband jealous!)
Hi Alison.
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Bolting is, as you have discovered, dangerous and scary! When he bolted at three years old there was probably (from his point of view) a really good reason; he needed to run away from something. After that, every time something similar happened he bolted. All in all (from his point of view) it was effective. Now, 11 years on it has become a ritualised/habitual behaviour that continues to bring him some relief.
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When you say there is no trigger I would respectfully suggest that there is a trigger but you've not yet identified it:-0 Some triggers are easy to spot. I worked with one where it was situational i.e. every time she came to a certain part of the path she took off, ran past the scary bit (it had spooked her once) got to the end, turned round and waited for her owner to catch up! This became a habit, even when there was nothing there, "It's what I do...I get to here, I run". It's harder to spot when it's an internal trigger but I'm guessing it'w when stress levels reach a certain point that the adrenaline begins to surge and that is the cue to bolt; horse bolts, gets relief, serotonin floods system, horse feels better - it happens to us, dogs, horses etc. it's a normal process, however, when it becomes ritualised and habitual it can become dysfunctional in that it no longer serves the purpose (becuase there was nothing scary there) or, there is some evidence in dogs, that it can become addictive in itself.
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So...after all my waffling! Can it be 'cured'? Yes...just about.... Monty calls it (someone correct me if I get the phrase wrong!) "a self reinforcing behaviour" i.e. the more he does it, the more he will do it. So, how to change it...
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1)Yes, get a Dually; watch the videos on how to use it over and over again so that you feel very fluid. (2) Learn his body language in the minutest of details (essential with bolters) and watch for ANY little signs that suggest his anxiety goes up. (3) You are right; if those that lead him are anxious, he will be (4) Have somebody with you when you lead him, in hand bolting is dangerous. (5) ALWAYS lead with a long line (at least 20 foot) and learn how to disengage him when taking off. Kelly Marks teaches this but it's hard to describe in words; I'll see if I can find a clip about it.
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Now the bad news...(1) This will never be fully cured and will take A LONG TIME to even begin to feel safe; it has become a coping strategy and will always be there, we can only bury it deeper and deeper and not allow him to rehearse the behaviour (2) What the hell are the riding school doing allowing him to be used on students; it could frighten someone for life (3) I'm sorry, I have to ask, did you know about this habit when you got him? If so, what made you get him? If not, how long have you had him, is it too late to return him or are you too fond of him now ;-) (4) Does he bolt under saddle? If so, this is even more worrying and you may need to get a MR Instructor in. Whereabouts in the world are you located?
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My final word (I promise haha) is that AT ALL TIMES you must be focused, wear gloves, boots, and hat and NEVER allow yourself to be distracted but at the same time be relaxed - really hard to do when anticipating a bolt I know - and work in small areas to start with until you are very clear what the triggers are. Good luck, I know you will get lots of support but hope that helps as a starter.
Thank you so much for all your wonderful advice, Vicci.
To answer some of your questions, no we didn't know when we bought him and it didn't show up until a few months later. FYI, he was bought for a Therapeutic Riding Program (very carefully checked out - both for them and for me - as you can imagine) and turned out to be brilliant, becoming a big favourite with the kids. We took him out after 8 months because they moved facilities and changed the rules about owner riding times.
It may have originally started as a fear/flight reaction, but it's now more a case of impulse "(sigh) I don't really want to go that way, I think I'll just go and play" and off he goes to a patch of green grass, or to a buddy's paddock or to a hay bale.
I think it comes down to the fact that, whatever the reason, he got away with it as a youngster, it's fun and now - as you say - it has become ritualistic. He is easy to catch afterwards and often will just walk back to me with his head down.
He is a lamb under saddle, everybody enjoys riding him and he has NEVER bolted with a rider, nor bucked, reared, bitten, cribbed, weaved or anything else.
He was very green, unfocused and distractible when we got him so he is schooled and ridden constantly and has come so far. He's learned to jump and loves that so I know that boredom is his enemy.
We are extremely safety-conscious at the barn and because spring is here, he is very happy and has upped the frequency over the past month which is why I need to figure out a solution.
Obviously we have to use a chain on him, which he respects, and I was contemplating a Chiffney (yes, yes, I know that makes me a terrible person!) until I heard about the Dually.
In response to your question about giving him back - not in a million years. We'll figure it out together. I'd probably give my husband away before letting go of the Bobster!
Thank you again for taking the time to help out. Off to measure his nose now!
Hi. You are going to have FUN! The lessons are fantastic & we on the forum support you throughout. However, I anticipate a problem. If he is used for clients, will the equestrian centre accept that you will not tolerate ANY VIOLENCE to your horse. No whips - ever. Monty says violence is never the answer (so now you all know the significance of VINTA in my email address). I think you may be in for a shock because the dually halter can work miracles. This type of horse tend to be kindly souls & I wouldn't be at all surprised if, having launched himself into the dually - assuming there is a fairly fit, savvy person on the longline who can spin him around in his tracks, he never repeats the behaviour, at least while wearing the dually. You see no one has ever used the right equipment that when he bolts they can hold him - he'll be absolutely flabbergasted. Non loaders who bolt from the trailer ramp or lorry are cured by becoming confident to load with calm, consistent handlers. Once he knows there is nothing to be gained from this bolting, he'll stop it. I bet the first time he did it he was punished for it, convincing him he had run from something scary.
The biggest dually, the blue one, measuring from just under the cheek bone, over the top of his head to just under the other cheek bone, covers a range of 30 to 40 inches. There is massive nose adjustment with both front & back buckles. If that's too big, intended for Shires & Clydesdale types, then the next size down is the black dually.
Keep us posted on what happens. Beware where you buy your dually from. In Britain we buy from Kelly Marks ( Intelligent Horsemanship ) but on EBay they are more expensive & not necessarily the genuine product. You can order from Monty direct - using this web site but if you're not in the USA you may be charged an import duty. Good luck. Cheers, Jo.
Hi. I've just read your further post. No, you're not a bad person using a chain or considering other options but I guarantee a dually, used properly, is the answer. Causing pain & chains & the like do - it's how they work, will only serve to cement the behaviour. Bobby shows the intent to bolt & then gets pain - the reason to bolt is confirmed. Eventually, the chain won't work because the nerves will be destroyed & he'll be numb to it. We all do what we need to do but that's inexcusable once we find a better way. Watch "Walter Won't Go Forward". It's the opposite problem to Bobbys & Walter has made a career out of rooting his feet to the floor. But the cure worked so quickly even Monty was in disbelief! Cheers, Jo.
Hi Alison, he does sound a lovely boy and I was pretty sure you wouldn't give hi back but I had to ask :-) So glad he hasn't bolted under saddle, great news - makes it easier if it's a very isolated issue.
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Jo is right about the Dually - no chains/Chifney needed but vital you learn how to use the Dually correctly. Looking forward to hearing how it goes
Thanks so much to both of you! Your positive support and invaluable advice have confirmed to me that the Dually could well be the answer.
I'm in Canada so luckily I can order it directly from Monty's store.
Everybody at the barn wants to see the process succeed so they will cooperate completely - in fact they're all quite intrigued.
I'll keep you posted, and thanks again.
Alison
So ..... my Dually Halter and 17ft line arrived today and Bobby had his first session this afternoon, supervised by a friend who bred Suffolk Punches in UK and has used the halters for years.
Firstly, I must admit that over the past week of watching the training videos and working with Bobby, I now realize that the ground bolting is not just an isolated issue, but is one symptom of his disrespect for ground handling.
He clearly has never been asked to toe the line (no pun intended) and when he was faced with boundaries today, he was not only "flabbergasted" as Jo predicted ... he was furious!
My beautiful, kind-hearted, perfect steed would comply with a few tasks and then would decide he'd had enough and would try to bite me (WHAT???), chew the line (never before!), throw his head off to the opposite side, bend it to the ground to avoid backing and even tried donuts around me. Boy, did he do a lot of backing up today!
Having said that, there were several times - before and after the round pen work - when I knew he wanted to take off and couldn't; which just made him madder.
Everything was a distraction and trying to keep him focused on me was a real challenge.
We did a Join-Up at the beginning and then when I lost his attention I did another half-way through the session. He's great at the Join-ups, btw.
I think this is going to take some time.
Hi Alison. You're doing great - keep up the good work. Sure, he's going to throw a strop. Who wouldn't when his perfect arrangement with humans gets mucked up. He doesn't fully trust any human. I know that's hard to hear but it gets better. Bobby has developed his stratergy to cope with all this human stuff, satisfying his instinctive needs, including fleeing. The dually is asking to change that status quo so, yes, he will get really cross - who are you to change the ground rules that work so well for him after all these years? Keep your cool. Be calm, clear & consistent. You'll see an improvement very soon & once the penny drops & you get trust, prepare yourself for an avalanche of co operation. Let's be clear, I don't mean that Bobby will become some spineless dope. He'll still have his opinions but he will learn respect for your ideas & develop trust enough to try them before throwing a strop, bolting off or acting out. Yes, it may take some time - but how much progress was using the chain gaining you? Truthfully, this is a life journey you are on. Not just to change Bobbys life for the better but to make yours so much more too. You could say it's a gift from Bobby - one that all his ancestors have been trying to share with us humans over thousands of years. Stick with the plan, be fair with Bobby & the journey may well be much shorter than you think. Trouble is, once you start there are so many new destinations to explore & enjoy. Keep us posted - we're here for you ( & Bobby ). Cheers, Jo.
Thanks SO much, Jo.
You have no idea how reassuring your words are for me. To be honest, I was feeling pretty discouraged after discovering my darling boy is not only a control-freak egomaniac but has anger management issues, to boot!
On the positive side, while I stayed calm during our training time, I'm actually pretty ticked off with him right now.
So, tomorrow's session will have a bit less of the little engine's "I think I can" and a whole bunch more of "I can, I will and he'll want to by the time we're done!"
Stay tuned and thank you again for your wonderful encouragement. Grannies are supposed to know it all, but this one is learning every day.
Cheerio,
Alison
Hi Alison. Can I suggest something? Horse trainers demand the horse complies & the traditionalists use punishment to achieve this. Using a dually is different & requires a different human mindset. Now I don't mean weak or ineffective, just different. The dually allows the horse to decide what to do. The handler arranges circumstances so that it is easier for the horse to comply than do anything else. In this way the horse teaches itself, the handler is generous with praise & a partnership is formed based on trust. One of the most crucial factors is PICNIC ( positive, immediate consequence / negative, immediate consequence ). In your case, leading Bobby needs you to leave slack line between his head & your hand. If he makes to bolt off let him. You don't care if he does that - he'll run into the dually head collar. You drop some loops of line, put your weight on your back foot & as he reaches the end of the line given you pull - hard ( you might want someone else on the very end too as he's a big lad ). Bobby is spun round! The dually got smaller & twisted. That's NEVER happened to him before. You loosen the soft ropes & rub his head in praise as he's stopped. You walk on ensuring you allow the same slack between his head & your hand. Yes, that's an invitation for him to try it again. If he accepts that invite you stay calm & happy & react the same way as the first time. He'll soon work it out. Allowing Bobby to make mistakes is vital as that's how he will learn. Get it out of your mindset that these are failures, they are learning opportunities. You have no cause to be 'ticked off' with Bobby - none of this is his fault. You can be ticked off with all the humans who have failed Bobby throughout his life & angry, that we both belong to a species who dare to call themselves enlightened when clearly so many of us just are not, but don't blame the one who has never been given any choice in the matter, until now.
I feel you are sceptical. Get your long line. Hand the clip end to a person of physical substance & in an appropriate place get them to run off. Then pull them up. You'll be amazed how well this works. However, a word of warning. Let them know what you plan to do & make sure they have a really good grip on the clip - I speak as one who was happily demonstrating exactly this & my 'victim' spun round & let go of the line. I watched as the clip arched through the air towards me & whacked me just above my glasses, leaving a minor wound on my forehead - which bleed impressively! Have fun. Cheers, Jo.
Thanks Jo, all very important advice and I won't let my frustration show. Yesterday we were just walking and he was leaving me behind at his shoulder so I would correct and back him up; then he would do it again and again. It was as if he wanted to keep testing the dually and accept the discomfort rather than comply.
Smart, stubborn and ADHD ..... gee, sounds just like me so don't know why I'm surprised!
quick question .... why hold the clip end?
Lol, Alison, you may have hit the nail on the head there...
sounds just like me so don't know why I'm surprised!
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When your working with him, take a moment to stop and feel what your energy levels are saying. If your energy levels are up, then so will your horse. When you're trying to get him to walk in the sweet spot, before you even get walking stand still and breath long and slow until you start to feel in time with your horse, when you feel the sensation of relax come over both of you, ask for him to walk forwards in the sweet spot.
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Keep your shoulders relaxed, don't look back at him that tells him something totally different. Look ahead like a leader and relax. If he's pushing ahead of you he might not fully understand where you are going so use your head exactly the same as you would when you're riding jumps, always looking to the next jump as you come over. The horse knows where you're going next even before you give any other aid because your head has already told him. Try it on the ground, look forwards for going forwards, left and right when you're turning. He won't then have to push past you to see where you're going.
Mel
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Thanks Mel, I've done a lot of Yoga so belly-breathing and energy checks are 2nd nature to me ... and there was a lot of it today.
He absolutely understands where we are going, he just wants to go at the pace he chooses! He was much better today - although still very angry with me which made everybody laugh as usually I'm the good cop.
His habit is to get ahead, then when he feels the pressure from the Dually instead of stopping he bends his head towards me and blocks my path to circle around me. Very rude.
Having said that, he really was much better than yesterday and hopefully tomorrow will be even better.
Hi Alison. Why hold the clip end? There are 2 ways to coil a long line. Coil it correctly & you only need to relax your fingers slightly for the coils to freely fall from your hand. Coil it the other way & they won't fall freely which is dangerous! You could be dragged & seriously injured. The right way is clip end leaving from the centre & tail end towards your body - so if someone hands you a coiled line you always know which way round to hold it! If I were there to help Bobby I would two line drive him. Then he doesn't have a human to bend his head round. Put his saddle on & tie the stirrups under his belly to guide your lines. Ordinary lunge lines are ok - but not as comfortable for you to use as Montys 30 footers. Having said that I don't want to come over as being one of Montys pushy sales people! I'd work him in circles - giving him a different challenge. If he didn't go generously forwards I'd use LOTS of plastic on a long cane to encourage him - I think sometimes people are scared to apply pressure in this way but if the plastic is very big & stringy you wave it from further away - simple. Have you done more than your initial 2 join ups? Up to about 6 is ok otherwise they get bored with the same conversation. You can use traffic cones or those plastic jump wings or weighted cardboard boxes or anything really to vary the pattern & add extra interest to the exercises. Working away from his side will help Bobby listen to the dually, forwards & backwards. Good luck & keep us posted. Cheers, Jo.
Hi all, great to read through all the excellent advise...sorry Jo but I had to chuckle at the clip end story:) proof we learn by our mistakes/experiences for sure. what stood out to me as I read The posts was many attempts to interpret the horses behaviour through our own human brain thoughts such as he is being rude, knows what he is doing etc., he is angry... It may be easier for the handler to deal with his issues if we learn to see that he is simply responding to the situations the way we have taught him to or allowed him to by instinct in the past. He is then trying his known bank of alternatives to see what is acceptable and will achieve the desired relief of pressure. We need to provide him with opportunities for both doing the right thing, the correction and the release as Jo said about PICNIC it's as much about positives as negatives. At a point of anger or frustration as a trainer is the time when we should walk away and take a breather and ask ourselves what we are not teaching the horse correctly so they can understand what we want brings positive response. the horse is being honest in his or her communication. With the right techniques we can create a willingness to learn and take leadership and partnership to a new level. It concerns me that this horse is being used in a riding school setting with this level of resistance and challenge to leadership on the ground that is a potentially dangerous situation for student safety. Work throughout the steps of join up, follow up etc., and if it escalates please seek out professional assistance to help identify the risks and resolve the issues quicker for you. he sounds like a great horse who is simply unsure if he can trust the humans he has in his life to be the leaders .. Montys methods and the Dually will certainly help!
Just a quick note to add that I believe you are doing a great job working through this and keep on with the Dually work. It's simply that his experiences with many people have left him confused as to what our expectations are for his role in the partnership with humans. good luck!
Hi. Glad you saw the funny side! Bobby has a number of issues, all based on a lack of understanding of what people expect of him BECAUSE no one has taken the time & trouble to show him. Alison is now taking the time & trouble but to be successful she needs to go back to the beginning of a horses training & rebuild from there - as though Bobby was a baby & was learning from scratch, except he will bring all the baggage of human misunderstanding & mistreatment he's had over the years. This is why I suggested working him from 2 lines rather than concentrating solely on leading. Firstly, leading is only 1 of his problems & secondly, a broader approach will help him to understand that the change to trust & partnership is for everything they do together & not just leading. It sounds daunting I know but once the wheels of change start rolling it will all happen quite quickly. Alison has a challenge - to keep her learning ahead of Bobby's. However, the rewards for her efforts will be immense & well worth it. Cheers, Jo.
...it doesn't sound daunting to me at all...it inspires me. I was simply providing some insight on what was written when reading the entire string of comments by Alison and others which, if taken into consideration, could improve the success.
Sorry I haven't acknowledged your insights over the past few days but we were at our first horse show of the season which proved to be an excellent testing ground for Bobby and his new Dually.
Before I tell you how Bobby did, I must tell you what this halter has done for me. Frankly, it has changed my life.
Because it absolutely stops him in his tracks, I now have the confidence to focus on his learning process without personal anxiety. WOW!
Like any show, it was busy with lots of noise, tents and flags fluttering in high winds, horses everywhere and if there's one thing Bob doesn't like, it's change, so he was all over the place.
Temporary stalls are very small and he prefers the outdoors anyway so lots of walking was necessary. It would've been very difficult without the halter.
I must confess that I set him up to bolt when putting him back in his stall at one point and he performed brilliantly. Straight out the door then got to the end of the line and whipped around to look at me with a (pardon my language) "WTF" look of sheer amazement.
He still tries to circle me, instead of halting, and I have to block him with my body to bring him to a halt before I back him up at least 10 paces to get his attention and respect. He's a smart chap and is getting the message but there's lots more work to be done and I have no doubt that we will get there sooner than later.
Jo, I will watch the training videos to learn how to work him with 2 lines and you're absolutely right - we are going right back to basic training with him.
To LMSedgwick, I really appreciate your reminder about not "humanizing" his responses. Sometimes I forget he's a horse because he tests and I must remember that he's not consciously plotting! Please don't worry about him being used as a school horse as I must remind you of one of my original posts where I mention that 80% of the time he is the perfect gentleman on the ground - it's the other 20% that's the problem and usually only when handled by a person of "gentle" personality. We are extremely safety-conscious at our barn and all of his riders are instructed on how to deal with the situation if it should happen.
He's smart enough to know who will let him get away with it and who will not so it's a learning process for both the riders and Bobby.
I am the only one using the Dually with him right now as it only arrived last week and show prep has made it impossible to properly instruct others on its use. He started taking off on somebody this week-end when being led with his regular halter. He stopped, turned and looked at her before getting to the end of the short lead line ..... that's progress!
I really would've been very intimidated and quite at a loss without the caring and marvellous advice from you lot out there. Thank you so much.
Tomorrow is our day off to recover from the excitement of the week-end, but on Tuesday we'll get back to work and I'll let you know how we're doing as the days pass.
Horse hugs all round.
Hi Alison. I am so proud of you & Bobby! Clearly, he's telling you he likes the way things are going - not missing the chain one little bit. Your improved confidence is beyond value. Anyone who thinks a dually is an expensive head collar needs to discover, as you have, just what a magic bit of kit it is when used right. Once you've mastered two line working you'll NEVER single line lunge again, I promise you, because you won't want to. Your mind & body will easily adapt & then, instead of having training sessions, it'll be a case of "Bobby, let's go & play" because it's fun. He'll enjoy it because learning increases confidence & you'll enjoy the pleasure of your successes & the challenges to rework an idea that didn't quite go as you planned. Make no mistake, there will be challenges but these are to be valued as they allow you to expand your understanding. I'm looking forward to the day when you can come on the forum & tell us how many converts at your barn you've inspired. I'm sure that won't be too far in the future. After all, many of them will have seen the problems you had over some considerable time & can see how quickly, safely & enjoyably you're finding solutions. Keep us posted & we'll do all we can to help. Cheers, Jo.
Brilliant progress Alison, lovely to hear!
Hi Alison. Hope all going well. I'm on a mission this week. Max, my 12 year old Welsh A, spent a couple of months away from home & returned with a massive sinus infection. However, he also has an issue with giving me his feet - something he's always been really comfortable with. So, with some help, Max & I are re confirming confident foot handling. His off fore hoof has something of a unique bulge on the outside edge. Despite having arranged, I thought, for a local farrier to give him a trim whilst he was away & making the 80 mile round trip to visit him regularly ( 1 to 3 times a week ) it looked like his toes had been clubbed back rather than a conventional foot balancing trim. Come Wednesday Max will be ready for a proper pedicure. Just goes to show that, even with the best will in the world & even when you do everything you think you need to protect your horses best interests, it can still go pear shaped. Cheers, Jo.
Poor Max - and how upsetting (and expensive, no doubt) for you. I'm certainly learning about the challenges of being a horse-owner and the constant decision-making involved.
Bob's ground manners are improving daily and he's a really willing learner. When I was at the barn yesterday, he was standing peacefully in the cross-ties (a top flight area) having walked in quite calmly with one of the teenage students. She said she had dropped the bridle when tacking him and for a few minutes he was untethered and still stood perfectly still. So everybody is seeing the difference already.
It seems that all he's ever needed is somebody to show him a different, more polite, way of doing things.
Hope Max's mani-pedi goes well on Wednesday.
Take care,
Alison
Hi Alison. I hope all is well with you. Max was impeccable today, as was Humphrey. However I have my work cut out with my rescue pony Bo, who had a blood sample taken by the vet yesterday - I'm not convinced he's been fully gelded. We should have the results in a few days but Bo put up considerable resistance & was in no mood to have any more interventions today. In February this pony was so head shy if you touched his ears he ran at least 75 yards away so we've come some distance already. He will be 4 years old in August. So much abuse in so short a life. Compared to my two home bred babies, Kirk & Moley, Bo is a wreck. However, I see progress on a daily basis. Take care. Cheers, Jo.
Hi Alison. You've been absent for a while so I'm just wondering if everything is ok. Don't feel obligated to post - I don't want you to feel you have to, but you seemed enthusiastic & I thought you were really pleased with the way Bobby was progressing. Cheers, Jo.
Thanks so much for your concern, Jo. Sorry I've been off the grid for a few weeks. A few traumas to handle. Husband's knee surgery; people visiting; family crises; typical life stuff ..... BUT in amongst all of this I found it necessary to move Bobby to a new boarding facility last week. All a bit stressful - plus I quit smoking 6 weeks ago after 45 years, so it's been challenging to say the least.
Bobby is still settling into his new lifestyle, introduction to pasture and nightly stall confinement. I am absolutely flabbergasted at how quickly he has adapted.
He is in a much calmer environment with fewer horses, less chaos and a regular daily routine on a beautiful property with loads of trails and a huge indoor arena.
We are getting back to work already and he's doing great. I've learned that I need to remain assertive with him all the time otherwise he loses respect and takes advantage. It's a classic case of give him an inch and he'll take a mile.
I was chatting with my vet yesterday and she made a comment that totally shocked me. She said "You do realize that if you hadn't taken him on 2 years ago, he would've been euthanized, right?"
I'm going to continue working with him and creating programs to develop both his confidence and my own.
Here's my email address in case I forget to check the forum for updates ...... alison@bico.ca
Is there a way to get notifications of forum updates or does one keep checking when life doesn't get in the way?!
How are your lot doing? Did Bo's bloodwork show anything amiss?
Yours-a-shambles,
Alison
Hi Alison. Lots of change in your life! As far as I'm aware you just have to check, no alerts. My herd Is back to 4. Bo has his own thread on the forum & a new home. It's left me out of pocket but serenity has been restored, in less than 24 hours! Your vet's comment doesn't surprise me - people often take the path of least resistance. Monty says people often tell him they don't have time to use his methods - having spent months using harsh methods to no advantage. I'm really pleased to hear that Bobby is doing well & enjoying life as well as giving you the pleasure you deserve, in what sounds like a beautiful environment. Cheers, Jo.