Hi Ronda,
Interestingly enough some "Natural Horsemanship"-trainers, including Dr.Robert Miller (the one with the imprinting of newborn foals) are in favor of hobbling.
I find it hard to see any positive side to it, although the argument of getting feet caught cannot be denied. Desensitizing the horse's legs seem a friendlier way of getting the horse used to having his foot restrained.
Thank for posting this interesting subject!
Miriam

Hi Ronda and Miriam
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I am in favour of hobbling for the reason of the horse getting their legs caught in wire etc. One of my friends has a really good barrel racing mare who got caught in barbed wire around her front pasterns. She had been hobbled, so she knew to give to the pressure therefore she stood there until someone saw her and let her out. She even stood while the other horses galloped past her at dinner time! My friend saw her still standing there and went up to see what was wrong, saw the wire and set her free. This mare sustained a couple of minor scratches and a few puncture wounds. She wasn't even lame from her ordeal.
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I have another friend who used to vehemently oppose hobbling until she very unfortuantely had one of her horses stuck in some plain wire. This horse panicked and basically de-gloved the lower left front leg completely from the knee down; and did some pretty major damage to the right fetlock and pastern. This horse was put down. Very, very sad.
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There is definately a process to follow when teaching a horse to hobble. And I can honestly say that I have never had a horse rear and fall over when I have put the hobbles on because I have been taught to do a lot of desensitising of the legs etc first. But I have seen some people who just put them on and let the horse jump around in panic - which I believe is VERY wrong.
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Miriam is probably right in that the desensitising of the legs would do the same thing, because as I said, I have never had a horse react badly to hobbling because I have put a lot of work into desensitising the legs first. So that's a good point Miriam.
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Also in the old cowboy and stockman days, they used to hobble their horses at night so that they could graze but not get too far away from the camp.
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I know after reading my response a lot of people will want to throw rocks at me, but I honestly believe that if done the right way, hobbling a horse is beneficial and does not have to be a painful or traumatic experience.
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Thanks for bringing up this topic Ronda, I have often wondered what other people on the Uni thought about hobbling. I have also wondered what Monty Roberts thinks of it too.
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Kind regards,
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Gen

Ronda
I have to agree with Gen on this. All our horses know how to be hobbled and it is used when breeding, horse that kick or strike out of frustration and have not learned to stand quietly. Also if you ever are on the trail and need to get off your horse and there is no place to tie him you can put hobbles on and he can walk around with our a problem but he will not wander too far. As far as teaching a horse to be hobbles you can start with a soft cotton rope that is just a little sorter that the horses stride and get him use to the feel of the rope then gradually decrease the length to the rope. The hobble should be loose enough that the horse can take a stride that is about half of what he normally takes at a walk. One other trick to desensitize the legs of the horse is to put shipping boots on him and let him walk around the arena or round pen to get use to the feel then start with the hobble training.

Cheers

I am with Gen and Dennis. IF, and thats a big if, the hobbles are used correctly I am for them. I however have seen them used in a crule way. My BLM Mustang that I rescued had hobbles on beacuse he would strike out at the old owners. By the time I came to take him home. He was in hobbles for 2 weeks. They were starting to rub into his legs. Also my paint mare was hobbles with wirehobbles on the back legs becasue she kicked a past trainer in the face so they hobbles her tell her owner could come get her. And now I have her trying to undo the mental damage that was doen do to that.

NOW I have also seen them used in responable way. My mom used hobbles when she was trail ridding and at shows. IF someone knows how to use them and also knows that if you miss use them you can hurt a horse. Then they know how to use them correctly. I myself have not used them becasue i know that if you use them incorrect you can casue pain to the horse and i do not want to do that to any of my horses.

Thank you all so much for responding to this post.
This trainer explains very carefully how to approach this and like you explains the benefits of the hobbles.
I guess I'm from the old school in my mind and all I see is someone tying front and back legs together and that sight is cruel for me.
I have been using a long whip and soft ropes to desensitize STAR to any objects around her feet for about two years now and she doees very well.
I'm sad to hear about that horse that had to be destroyed because of the wire.
I would love to hear Monty's view on this.
And I would like to know if STAR would allow this. I have no experience with using them and I am very concerned with her reaction to being restrained by anything.
I've always given her freedom, I guess I have a long way to come in my training adaptations to new ways.
Doing things Monty's way has been a big challenage when I'm from the old school, I was never cruel but didn't know his way.
Maybe there will be an email from he or his staff about this subject.
Any staff out there who could give us a viewpoint on this.
Thank you guys, I appreciate you responce,
Ronda

Hi all,
After reading what's written uptil now, I realise that the word "submissive" was never mentioned. I came upon this word several times, when trainers are in favor of hobbles.
Is submissiveness what we want to acchieve with our horses?
Miriam

Hi there all - I just found a Q&A where Monty was asked about hobbles. The bottom line seems to be that he has never used them and also says if they are ever to be used then only a very experienced horse person should be doing it. I've never heard of it so this was an interesting topic to read - thanks Ronda.

If anyone is interested it is the Q&A from:
11.19.08

Best to all, Lizzie

Hi all
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Ronda, I would definately NOT try hobbling with STAR unless you have someone you could absolutely trust to do the right thing guiding you through the process. It would be terrible to see all your good work undone by something going wrong - and things can definately go wrong with hobbling if you don't follow the process and read your horse all the way through. Keep up your desensitising work with her though. Because after really thinking about this since your post and Miriam's first response, I think the desensitising work is really the key to keeping the horse calm should it become tangled or restrained in something.
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Hi Miriam, I don't think that hobbling or horse training in general should be used with the intention of creating a "submissive" horse; however that's what most trainers want - but not me. I think hobbling is more about desensitising than dominating to create submission.
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Hi Lizzie, I will look up the Q&A you mention here. Thanks for pointing it out to us :-)
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Also, no one should ever feel like they HAVE to do something just because someone else does. Each one of us needs to read and understand the nature of our horses and train accordingly.
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Kind regards,
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Gen

Miriam
Submissive is a very interesting term. I guess it depends on how you view submissive. The dictionary uses terms like obedient, which is what we really want from our horse but obedient in a willing manner. "I will do what you ask because I trust that you is take care of me" I guess willingly submissive is what I would like to see as a reason for hobbles, bits, saddles, anything that the horse would not do if he were on his own.
I certainly have seen many instances were people and animals were forced into submission and that is definitely the wrong approach for any situation.

I have seen cross hobbles used to keep horse from kicking and striking. Cross hobble is where the left front foot is connected to the rear right foot and the front right foot is connected to the rear left foot using a cotton rope or leather cuffs and cotton rope. The horse can move freely but it cannot strike or kick. There is always a reason why horses kick or strike and to be able to work through the reason and retrain the horse while protecting yourself, the horse and other horses around him is the reason to use the hobble. The way a trainer actually trains the horse to modify its behavior is the problem in most cases, not the hobbles. I think of the hobble like the giddy up rope. It appears to be harsh but is not at all.

Cheers

Thank you so much for that site Lizzie,
After reading futher comments and watching Monty's video I will choose to never hobble any horse for any reason.
I will continue to desensitize them to anything around their feet.
Star can stand still for a very long time and not get anxious, plus she is trained for land tied.
This is where I drop a lead rope or her reins to the ground and walk away. She stays there until I give her permission to come, leave or go.
I basicially started this training because of my seizures, when I have had them inside her stall, pen or pasture she stands very still and I am not in danger.
For me no hobbles.
Plus they are illegal in most places. Good on the protection and well being of our horse.
If we can just continue to spread Monty's method we'll be fine and so will our horses !!!!
Thanks guys, I appreciate this,
Ronda

Ronda
I am sorry you feel so strongly that hobbles are some how bad for horses. If used incorrectly they most certainly are not only bad for horses but dangerous for all. One trainer wrote one how to train a horse to hobbles and said it is quite easy if done correctly. Desensitizing the legs was the first step and that training a horse to hobbles gives them a better chance of survival if their legs get trapped. He also felt that in many cases the owner should be sent for training not the horse!

In my personal view a hobble is just another tool to be used correctly using the same principals as teaching a horse to accept a saddle or bridle. Do either of them incorrectly and you harm the horse.

Interestingly the tack for a Peruvian Paso includes wooden box stirrups that are shaped like pyramid and the stirrup is buried on the ground at night and the horse is tied to the stirrup with a long rawhide lead so he is tethered for the night and cannot wander away but can graze or lie down and sleep. Much easier than using a hobble.

Cheers

I have used Hobbles on a Trail Ride. Because there was no place to tie the horse and we both needed some "Me Time". The horse was always willing to put them on, except when there was a Predator in the area. In that case that the horse was not willing to wear hobble I was not willing to stay in that place of danger. My horses have always wanted me to set boundaries for them to know what is expected.

Ronda, I've seen alot of trainers. Some of them do some techniques that I like and others do things that really makes me mad.

i think it is very important to get horses familiar with you handling their feet and legs, but you should not have to use anything more than the end of their lead ropes and your hands. I think hobbles are unacceptable.
i think you should use a picket or high-line to put up horses over night, or bring some electric fencing if you have a pack horse.

Hi Ronda & Gen - glad you found the Q & A helpful.

If you have time would anyone tell me how you desensitise around the feet area? Smokey got caught in some wire in his field and panicked. It was so lucky that me and my husband were around and fortunate he didn't end up really hurting himself. He really panicked about it and yanked his leg out of the wire. I was really cross as we rent the field from someone and I felt it was negligent of them not to have cleared the field of such dangers. We hadn't seen this bit of wire and I felt terrible about what could have happened.

I know I have my hands full with him already with his training but some idea on how you go about desensitising their feet would be really useful.

Ronda, I hope you're not feeling so tired today.

Best to all, Lizzie

Lizzie
Soft cotton rope to start with Tie a 3 foot piece on one foot and let your horse walk around. You will see a very high stepping horse at first but they usually adapt quickly. Do that to all four feet one at a time. I would then tie the rope around both front feet with enough slack so your horse can walk. You can also tie plastic bags or even plastic water bottles to the rope. Your horse will blowup on you but eventually just stop and stand that is the time to praise them. I would do this type of work in a round pen. You don't want your horse to be able to run very far. Also picking up their feet and holding them will also help
I read an arrival in Western Horseman about a horse that got his foot trapped in a cattle guard and because the horse was use to hobbles he did not struggle even when they had to use a fork lift to free his foot the man is a rancher and travels long distances with his horse and has to hobble him at night while they are away from the ranch

Hi Lizzie
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Glad Smokey wasn't hurt and that you were there to help him!
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Given your circumstances with your horses, I would talk to your Trainer about it and do whatever they say.
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You can desensitise with plastic bags on a stick - rubbing them all over the body including the legs or running/rubbing a soft rope around the legs - all kinds of things. You are pretty much only limited by your imagination byt the things you can use :-)
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But with your babies, I would take the advice of the Trainer on this one.
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Kind regards,
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Gen

Hi Dennis - thanks for your description. I definately don't think I feel confident to attempt what you suggested on my own. I think I agree with Gen that I am probably best getting the trainer to work with me on this.

Also, we don't have a round pen - the horses are in a big field.

Your story of the horse whose foot got trapped in a cattle guard was really interesting Dennis. It just shows what can be achieved with the right training.

Thanks for the advice Gen, really appreciate it. I may be able to get to the plastic bags on a stick routine in the future, It is so useful to read what to do to desensitise the horses - great stuff!

Best wishes, Lizzie