My husbands horse Emmett is a good cowhorse, but has a bad habit of tossing his head, and has nearly hit Jim in the face a few times. We started with a mild curb bit, he didnt like it, went to a snaffle, he didnt like it. Still the head tossing. He was trained with a snaffle, so we dont know what his problem is. When I bought the snaffle for him, I made sure it was the right size, also the curb. So they both fit right, he just doesnt like them. I am starting to think maybe we should take him to the store and let him pick his own. Any ideas? Jim rode him with the dually once and he didnt seem to toss his head as much, but still did. He doesnt complain about putting the bridle on, just doesnt like the bit once its in his mouth. He reaches for it with no problem at all. Also, one of the cowboys gave Jim a tom thumb bit yesterday, he hasnt tried it yet, but does anyone have any opinions on them?
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Hi, i don't know anything about a tom thumb bits but I know that Monty reccomends black iron bits with cooper, I've seen with my own eyes that horses love this bit... Maybe try with that one?
Have you tried the "PICNIC"-system? Correct the behaviour with the Dually and give him a big rub if he remains calm.
Rudi
Head tossing is a result of some discomfort. A stronger bit is seldom the answer.
In very many cases head shaking is caused by something in their mouths or nasal cavities (teething, infections etc) or allergies.
In the latter case some horses have been helped by a nose-net both in the field and when ridden.
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Here's a link to a very good site about it:
http://www.jadwin.net/horse/
Hi phantommustang - tend to agree with Kicki that the head tossing is due to some discomfort in his mouth particularly if it has only recently developed. I have used a tom thumb bit in the past - they are quite good for helping a young horse with direction but their big disadvantage is that the side bits/spokes(?) can get caught inside their mouth and do a lot of damage. It didn't happen to me but I stopped using mine as soon as I was told this. If he is tossing his head then I would suggest that you do not try it as it may be more likely to get caught.
Just another add on - I don't like putting a lot of extra equipment onto bridles but if there is nothing wrong physically with his mouth then perhaps a martingale may help to correct the problem and keep your husbands's head safe - particularly his nose - I have had a couple of broken noses this way!
What breed of horse is he my daughter has an Arab and he throws his head around when riding and it has nothing to do with the head gear
He is a mustang/quarterhorse. Thanks to everyone for the advice and suggestions. We will try them all and find out what the problem is. Maggie, we are rather thinking a martingale might be the answer, if its is not his teeth, which we will have checked. He has been doing this ever since we got him, so dont know how lokng it has been going on. Will see if we can get a black iron bit, too.
Something that I did with one of my horses is I rode with both the dually and a bridle over the top, then I connected side reins from the dually rings to the breast collar rings on the saddle. This helps a lot with head tossing and also a horse that wants to graze along the way, it solved my problem.
Head tossing can be a sign of nasal irritation (like hayfever) - I had a friend with an arab that used to suffer with this and she rode with a nose net attached to the bridle, which helped a lot. I do tend to agree that the behaviour is quite likely to be due to some discomfort - and it may not necessarily be related to the head area, some horses do this if the saddle or their back is the problem. I would rule out all these possibilities first before trying a different bit.
I agree with emlaw. It is vital to rule out everything before adding anything (like a martingale/different bit) else to the 'pot' - ony because if it turns out to be pain/allergy and you restrict his movement, you remove his coping mechanism and increase his discomfort and irritation and could lead to major problems. As you have observed that it is slightly less with the Dually I would keep working with just the Dually for now, and rule out all medical issues. There is a big difference between a head nodder/mover (habitual and/or occasional) and full blown headshaking. If it is so severe as to be constant/likely to hit your husband then he could be a 'headshaker' and 'strapping him down' would be extrememly distressing for him. Latest research (according to Gil Riley) suggests that 'headshaking' is 10% organic reason (teeth problems, sinus etc etc) and 90% neurological; possible links to trigeminal nerve leading from the optic nerve. There are several other possibilites too: I therefore suggest a really thorough medical investigation first. Good luck :-)
Jim got another saddle, the one he had was too narrow, that helped with other problems but not the head tossing. With trial and error, and advice from the ranch manager, foreman, and cowboy, we have solved all problems but the head tossing. Not that he had that many to start with. He is sound in all ways, but might need his teeth looked at, which we will do as soon as we can. He is 13 years old. All the other problems were caused by the equipment. Once we changed that, the problems went away.
Phantommustang - good comments here for you to consider. The martingale would only be a possible solution it you were sure nothing else was wrong. Have you checked his back as head tossing can also be associated with back pain which I think Vicchi has mentioned already. Nicky broke my nose when I first had her so I bought a martingale but it is still sitting in the shed brand new and unused after 10 years. I found that riding her with a loser rein was a better solution. Her back was also a bit of an issue. Now 10 years on she is learning dressage. accepting contact and working really well. Do hope you find a solution as head tossing is not pleasant or safe.
Just a quick comment (as I've just commented in the side reins forum question!) but if you've ruled out physical causes, try long lining with elastic side reins as they maintain their contact when he tosses his head, whereas even with a martingale he can still toss his head and pull the reins out of your hands, gaining release of pressure, and thus training himself to toss his head.
Just a side note, rather funny, really. The day Jim got the new saddle, he wanted to try it out. Emmett had come to the corral, but was outside of it. Jim went to get him, and Emmett decided to run around him several times,in circles, then came in nice as anything. Guess he had to do his lunging first, without a line or corral. He is quite a character.
I think the Tom Thumb bit is one of the worse, misused, pieces of equipment out there. It should only be used as a toilet paper holder. I would suggest you follow Kleinne's recommendations. I have gentled several mustangs and never had to use more than the dually for control while training. I then ride with just a halter with no control problems. Good luck!
Let me describe this bit, in case we are talking about different things, Im not sure. It looks like a snaffle, but instead of the side rings, it has rounded shanks, more like a curb, but as I said, rounded, and a little shorter. Maybe an inch or so. No sharp edges or spokes. Everything is rounded. I havent seen one like it before, the only tom thumb bits I ever saw were on Ebay and didnt pay much attention to them since that wasnt what I was after. Maybe its not a tom thumb, but thats what Rocky called it. Jim called it a pee wee when he told me about it, made me laugh because I was sure that wasnt what it was. I had never heard of one, but until I was browsing Ebay, I had never heard of a tom thumb either. All I knew about were curbs and snaffles.
Hi phantommustang - I think Emmet has obviously been trained in the past with join-up and he was just doing his own join-up Jim outside the corral. Uggs does this sometimes and it always puts a smile on my face.
Phantommustang - the vision of Emmett running in circles made me laugh, you've obviously got him well trained!
Yes, he is well trained, but it wasnt us that did it. It was Kyle, the guy we got him from, who is now our farrier. We still dont know what all he knows, but he has been in a drill team, parades, has been a trail horse, and is a wonderful cowhorse. And he would rather work than go for pleasure rides. Its obvious that he knows join up, he always insists on it before allowing Jim to put his halter on, but that was the first time he wasnt in the corral. Kyle did a good job training him.
Tom Thumb bits are Marketed as a mild bit that is good for the green horse or green rider. One reason they are marketed this way is because of the misbelief that they are a snaffle with shanks, making it a mild bit that works as a snaffle and a curb. But that is all incorrect. No snaffle can have shanks. A snaffle is a non leverage, direct pressure bit that can have any type of mouth piece, joint, chain, leather, solid even ported. Many believe that a Curb bit is a bit with a solid mouth piece and many call the port the curb but what a curb bit is, is a leverage bit that uses a curb strap that causes curb pressure on the curb area of the lower jaw...the reason for the name Curb bit. A curb bit can have any type of mouth piece, jointed, chain, leather, solid, etc.
So a Tom THumb is a curb bit. One of the biggest problems with it is that many think it is a snaffle because of the marketing and use it as a snaffle but that can cause many problems to the poor horse. That holds true for ANY jointed Curb bit, but...
Not all jointed Curb bits are Tom Thumbs. There are only three Tom Thumb bits. The English Tom Thumb which is a short(very short) shanked curb bit that has a Solid ported mouth piece. The Aussie Tom Thumb which IS a ture snaffle that looks much like the Full cheek but has the ends flattened like a thumb print instead of rounded. And then the Western Tom Thumb which is the bit most people are talking about when you see Tom Thumb. Of the three the first two are good bits, the third is best left on the wall for many reasons.
Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_Tom_thumb_bit#ixzz26wPdGU7T
Have you tried a bitless bridle? I use them and are fantastic, nothing in the mouth, so no discomfort. Good luck!
Update. Jim finally got a chance to try things. He has been really busy until today. He saddled up with his new used saddle, which fits both him and Emmett, and put on the bridle with the new bit the cowboy gave him, and went for a ride. Came back all smiles, and so did Emmett, no head tossing at all, no behavior problems at all, stopped when asked, and stood perfectly still, just a very happy horse. No bit chewing, no complaining at all. Problem apparently solved. When Jim first put the bridle on, Emmett rolled the bit around a little and decided it was fine. So guess I dont have to take him to the store after all. (wonder what they would say if I did?)
Congratulations! So glad you found your way through :-)
Sometimes it's just a case of trial and error, and it looks as though you've found what works - good news!
Congrats!! So happy for you all!
Great news Phantommustand. Emmett has obviously been ridden in a Tom Thumb in the past. So pleased he behaved himself - he sounds like a great horse.
He is. We just love him. We have a couple really nice horses and couldnt be happier with them. We are so glad we finally found something he likes and is happy with, we would do anything to keep both of them happy. When our horses are happy, we are too.