I've seen parrelli training being done, but I've never done it. I've also seen other techniques like Clinton Anderson training done, but I prefer Monty's methods, since they seem gentler.

I guess the stick is an extension of the trainer's arm when giving a que. I am not totally against parelli, but I am not completely sold on the techniques either. We can learn something from everyone, but I prefer Monty Roberts too :-)

umm.... what is Parelli?
Abi x

EquiAbi,
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Pat Parelli is another horsetrainer who makes Natural Horsemanship, but his techniques are way different than Monty's. Maybe have a look on Youtube for him.
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All in all I prefer Monty's techniques, the seem to be more related to the horse's own language.
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Jasmin

I have learnt Pat Parelli's methods and studied Linda Parellis riding instructions. Pat is undoubtedly a talented horseman and a great showman (in my opinion) however like many training methods, when they are adopted by "lay" people (I'm sorry I can't think of a better word at the moment!) they get 'corrupted', misused and misunderstood. Yes, the carrot stick is an arm extension and is painless unless used very very aggressively (if its a properly made one) but I have seen awful practice by people who swear "that's what you are supposed to do" (no it's not!). For example, the Parelli ropes have a heavy clip on them and a leather 'thong' at the end (which is why I'm not keen on them). I have seen people use the heavy clip to slap horses under the chin with it to make them back up (watch for reversers that throw their heads back and then ask if they are "Parelli trained horses!") and the leather thong at the end can cause a vicious sting. The Parellis do not in any way advocate these practices but it goes on. I like to study, learn different methods so I can make a fair comparison and understand and explain why I like/don't like certain things rather than just blindly follow someone I like. There are aspects of the Parelli work that I like and there are large parts of it I don't like (I won't bore everyone with it all here but if anyone wants a fuller description I am happy to expand!!). I have written before about Pat and Monty getting together to compare and contrast in order to help their respective followers to understand the different points of view/methods. I have watched Clinton and what I do love is his commitment to non pompous, non elitist language e.g. it's the 'rear right leg' rather than 'offside hind' blah blah. However, I feel he can be, in my opinion, overbearing with the horses and has an impatient streak that 'sneaks' out sometimes. I once saw him just catch himself from swearing at a horse when he remembered he was on camera! All in all, I am a "Monty-ite" as it is based on logic and the horses point of view without having to deal with the over commercialised aspect of some of the Parelli training and learn lots of different techniques and routines. I am not awfully impressed with Lindas Horseanality stuff as many horses turn out to be, for example, "Left Brain Introverts with Right Brain Extrovert Traits" or variations thereof i.e. it s horse with its own personality! The concept was derived from the (human based) Myers-Briggs personality traits assessments which have a LOT of questions and cross matching to come up with a "Type". I do, however, like her riding DVD lessons, it helped me a lot. Having said all the above - and I am passionate about this belief - EVERYONE has something to offer even if it is an example of how NOT to do something! Nothing should be dismissed without giving it considered thought.

Well said Viccihh! I really enjoyed reading your comments here. I went to a couple of Pat Parelli demonstration days once and like you I think he is a great horseman and has made a big contribution but I prefer the Monty approach. I think Pat is more of a showman than Monty and his methods tend to be more abrupt and somewhat more forceful. I purchased his carrot stick and have found that it is a fabulous aid with young horses if used gently and correctly. Most of the horsey people in my area are Pat Parelli off shoots and I think they often get it wrong so I share your sentiments here too. There seems to be a lot of fairly rough discipline methods attribued to Pat but I doubt if that is where they originated. Many of these rider/trainers will discipline their horses by sending them in tight circles around them with forceful body language and usually at least a dressage whip in their hands. Doesn't sit well with me.

Thankyou Maggie, thats very kind of you :-)

I saw a youtube clip of a Parelli training gone wrong, when the horse didn't respond to their normal tecniques, they changed to force, tying ropes to the horses legs. When the horse fought, they put a twictch on to control him. The video stated that this force went on for 2 hours, the person who recorded it left before the end of the show.

I've never seen Monty use force in any of his shows, always the horses language, which the horses then respond in kind and accept us.

no violence :D

I think Parelli's groundwork seems effective, and I think it's fun to try different methods, however I was a bit disappointed in the DVD I watched where it gives an overview on an already trained horse, and then the methods are shown person to person, however it doesn't show training a horse that doesn't know the methods, it just then spends ages recommending Parelli courses, so I found it wasn't a very helpful learning tool.
I would be quite open to doing a Parelli course, however I feel what the Parelli system really misses most, is simply Join-Up. If Parelli did Join-Up and then went on to the groundwork exercises, I think it would be a much more effective system.
I also think Monty's methods of float/trailer loading are by far an easier and more effective method, and I don't know where I would be without long-lining!
So in summary, I think it's good to see what other trainers have to offer, and I take what I like from them, but I think that I would struggle with them were it not for my base of Join-Up, as that builds such a strong platform of trust from which to work on everything else. Yay for Monty!

I've been a mamber of Parelli for 3 years- I rescued 5 horses- 2 of whom were completely unhandled-after being away from horses for 30 years, and every horse I'd ever been around before this was dead broke. The program is all about horse psychology and very effective for us, but I read all the other natural/intelligent/progressive trainers too, and think they all want to help horses and humans

thanks everyone for your response to my question, i really like montys ways and have followed his methods for backing, long lining just now riding my youngster and saw a dvd of parrelli which i was curious on the riding side of things but its great to hear what other people think thanks again

Dear viccihh1.
You are in a very good position having experience with both methods, Monty's and Parelli's. Tell me what is common...
Example:
extended arm (Monty: rope, Pat: stick)
training halter (different types, same idea)
...
Rudi

Again, I would prefer Monty over Pat. By the way, I've been talking to a former student here at the UNI named Ronda, she says hello to everyone.

Rudi - first of all, thanks for making me think this through, its been very useful. I have just written out my thooughts and accidentally deleted it!!!! (I could cry!). I will try again soon but let me finish screaming first!

...and hi Rhonda :-)

Pat Parelli is a very good horseman. If you saw anything on Utube using brutality - I would question the source. I have never seen or heard of them using or condoning any such tactics in their training. They have a lot to offer us all. As do alot of other professionals. The Horseanality is genius and you cannot gain much from it by just briefing over it. You must study and apply to really get the full benefit of what they are teaching (as with anything). We should all be supportive and positive of anyone these days using nonabusive methods and putting the horse first.