Hi there - is that Ronda who posted above?

Just wanted to say from a novice's point of view - I've definately seen how in the early days when I'd bring treats to the ponies what happened is that they got 'nudgy' with me. Also, when I arrived to see them they'd get hyped up and agitated and start bickering among themselves because they knew food was around.

Then, when I started reading about Monty's methods and what he had to say about treats I completely changed how I did things. Now, I no longer feed them treats and on average they hardly try to nip or nudge half as much. In fact, it is only one of the ponies that still perhaps remembers getting treats or it is that passers-by to the field sometimes have brought them carrots so it could be that that makes him still do a little nudge sometimes when he sees me!

Also, your list of the 'fundamentals' is bang on the money as far as I'm concerned. I neither have the experience nor set up to do join-up. Add to that that I've been told by the trainer that you don't necessarily have to do the traditional join-up to achieve a very similar result as well as the fact that one of the ponies is very sensitive and 'sending him away' might not be good for him.

She has taught me to do the very 3 things you list above and it's made a huge difference to how the ponies react to being handled. The first thing I do is very gently and with low energy, back them up, then get them to yield their hindquarters and the then forequarters. An additional move has been to teach me to do mirrowing with them which we've started doing only last week. All of this done with the dually halter and long rein.

I think the idea is that by you directing their feet it is replicating what the leader horse does with the rest of the herd. In other words, the horse that gets other horses to move is in charge of that horse. So the human who does the same, basically shows themselves to be 'leader'. I have to say it has made a big difference to our ponies. They understand what you are asking of them and it seems to give them more calmness - perhaps the horsey experts might say it is because they are then understanding that you being herd leader means they can relax and know someone is in charge?

Thanks for bringing this up - I had wanted to write a post on whether the traditional join-up was the only way and describe how I've been learning with the above methods and it would be really interesting to read what other people think too.

All I can say is that adopting the above listed 'fundementals' has made the difference between me not having the experience to do the traditional join-up but enabled me to make gentle, incremental progress for both me and the ponies and I can highly recomend it.

Lizzie

Yea lizzie it's me.
I didn't state those "fundementals" to REPLACE the roundpen join-up. And I'm happy it is working for you.
It is after the official join-up is done and we can only do so many(with the same horse) and then the horse becomes sour.
Training goes on for the rest of a horses life and we have to remember moving a horse's feet keeps him thinking.
That is what Monty is doing when he does join-up, the horse's feet are moving switching his brain over to the thinking side, co-operating side.
Remember Monty has been doing this for a very long time and has perfected it for himself.
Keep an open mind and learn from the best there is to offer.
Learn the join-up, it will be part of your growing as a horsewoman and add to your experience.
Remember you do not need a round pen to do join-up, people have proven it can be done even in a large pasture, this will be the test of a truly skilled horseperson and take confidence in yourself.

Thanks Ronda. I didn't mean to replace the round pen join-up necessarily - it was just something I was taught by the trainer that would achieve a good result. I would LOVE to do join-up when I'm more experienced. By babies are still so sensitive and having to put up with me being inexperienced I think I'd only let an RA do it on them.

I have read that one musn't overdo join-up to more than approx. 4 times so I can see how the fundementals would be useful after doing the full quota of join-up.

You can be sure that I'll post on the forum when the time comes for mine to experience join-up - it is something I dream of doing with them at some point.

Nice to talk to you Ronda
Best wishes, Lizzie

Hi I'm back I just want to add something else that may be of interest to you all.
In the video lessons here on the UNI: lesson standing still Monty says very clearly, contol the feet, contol the relationship.
It's pretty simple and he shows how to do that very easily.
So after join-up we learn to control the feet, very important.
Happy day,
Ronda

Ha Ronda i thought it may be you! Nice to see you back :-)I have now done join up 4 times with Buster and it has been great for our relationship and the saddle starting process. Now i am working on those 3 fundamentals to continue the good start that join up has made. Thanks for pointing out thr right/left brain aswell. This is a very interesting thing!
Janelle

Ronsa, glad you're back.

Hey guys, I received an email telling me that we are going to have a lesson on turning our horses. I'm so glad.
I have been working with Star on yeilding and she seems to resent it afterwards, little monkey.
She use to do it great but since that colic she has been so out of it.
It doesn't help that everything is covered in ice and she has no way of getting her excess energy out, jumping and running.
I am very interested on how Monty will approach this subject and I look forward to it.
Some have asked why I changed my header name. Most know Star by her short name, Star. Her full name is My Star Mejestic. Also, I had my computer overhauled and downloaded my pictures onto a stick and have no pictures in my computer at present.
I have been going over the lessons again, for the upteenth time and it is surprising the things I missed the many times I watched them before, it's great having short term memory loss, everything is always new !!!! :)....
So there you go,
Ronda

I would just like to add my experience with treats. I to start with didn't use treats wiv my wild yearling. But I failed terribly, join up was no good as this taught him to always run away, so that didn't work either. I then was introduced to 'clicker' training, now being an avid Monty fan I was all against this idea to start, but then very quickly after giving it a trail realised how successful it was for my boy. I eventually after many weeks was allowed near him, and have since moved onto building his confidence with humans and realising we're not all here to beat him! I'm now at a stage where I can catch walk up to him in the field and stroke him without a treat - which is amazing. I must point out he always had to work for his treat and give me something first before I rewarded him. Now I'm withdrawing the treats altogether and now moving towards halter training. Without the clicker training I think I wld still be admiring him from a distance!

Whatever works best for you I think is the right way. And Ronda, sorry about misspelling your name.