Hi Julie
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I understand how you must be feeling. There have been a couple of times where I have allowed another person to 'train' a horse that belongs to me and similar things have happened, and I didn't say anything and I felt terrible. It takes a lot of courage to stand up to people with different ideas at times.
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Just recently I took my now 10 month old colt to a show preparathion clinic. I only spend 15 minutes a day with my babies so that I don't overload them. Anyway, the lady taking the clinic took Chicka from me to show me how to do something and she started hitting him with the whip. I do use a whip in some circumstances, but ONLY as an extension of my arm - no hitting. I didn't like it and I walked up to her and took the whip from her and told her that I don't do that kind of thing. Well my heart was racing and I couldn't believe I'd done it. I was shaking like a leaf.
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I was worried about any damage that may have been done, but I realized that Monty Roberts works with horses who have dealt with far worse, and the horses come round. I think I read in one of his recent news letters that 'horses are forgiving' and I believe him.
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If you act normal with Oscar when you wirk with him, he will respond normal and soon settle down to what he was again.
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As for your lack of experience doing him a disservice, well you have to start somewhere, and you are certainly in a good place for learning here on the Uni. You will do your horse a disservice if you don't recognize your shortcomings; but you do and are willng to learn to overcome them from what I can see.
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When you work with Oscar, make sure you are clear in what you are asking him to do and ensure there are immediate consequences for his behavior eg. negative when he steps into your space and positive when he does what you ask.
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Even though I don't agree with what the lady did, Oscar did not step into her space because he clearly knew it was not acceptable.
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Watch the online videos over and over again to learn the techniques. The one thing I will mention that I was doing wrong, is when you school with the Dually halter, when he gets in your space, give one good 'tug' (for want of a better word) not a heap of little ones. The Dually and using it correctly will help Oscar understand where your space is.
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Good luck, and I hope you are feeling better by the time you read this post.
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Kind regards,
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Gen

Hey Julie,
Don't beat yourself up, you're learning and so is your horse. Monty tells us we should always have fun with our horse, if we're not having fun we're doing something wrong. You're horse is trying to dominate you, if he barges into you and invades your space and can get you to move your feet then he controls the relationship. Learn how to use the dually effectively to move him back. My neighbor dropped off a 5 year old paint gelding 2 days ago to be trained. When she unloaded him off of the trailer he practically ran her over, stepping on her and barging into her. She said he has really bad ground manners. I asked her why she wasn't using her dually, I put my dually on him and worked with him for a few minutes. He was very difficult to move back but eventually he started to respect the dually and was walking very politely. I had to be very aggressive with the dually at first to move him but it worked and he realized he couldn't dominate me. Remember when working with a horse they're into pressure if you try to push him back with the dually he will push back on you, you have to use short quick bursts to move him back, be as aggressive as is required to get him to move and then go lightly. If he moves back with light pressure great, if not, aggressive again until he moves. As you work with your horse and you learn, the small victories will pay off.
If you get frustrated walk away, come back when you are calm but even perceived failures are not failures as long as you learn from them.
Good luck,
Kleinne

Hey Julie,

I agree with Gen/Kleinne remember that Oscar is only 1yr14mos. I believe young horses need shorter lessons. So maybe just work ten/fifteen mins. at a time. I have a 2 yr old 16 hands spotted draft that does some of the same stuff. Just stay calm and focused when working with him. And locks of head rubs when he does do good.

Good Luck,
Julie

Hi Julie
Good advice given here. I too have been in the position where supposedly experienced trainers have done things that didn't sit well with me, and I feel bad that I didn't step in and do something. Since deciding to adopt Monty's methods I have made a conscious decision that they are MY horses and that I should go with my gut instinct. That doesn't mean that I cannot ask for help when I need it, but that the final decision is mine and if a particular method makes me uneasy then I don't allow it. I am constantly having people tell me that I need to use a whip to "sort out' my spooky gelding, that I should whack him when he spooks or runs away. My neighbour who is an experienced eventer often hangs over my fence shouting unwanted and unhelpful advice. I just tell him 'thanks for the advice but I prefer to do it my way'. It's hard to do when they probably believe that they are just trying to be helpful, but don't let anyone bully you.

Hi Kleinne,

I agree about being very firm when needed with a horse.
Last night my husband was helping with Star. We are determined to get that saddle back on that horse.
She will allow me to do this but the saddle is too heavy for me now so I asked my husband to lift it for me.
I was holding the lead line, we used the dually, and as Paul was approaching her with the saddle she tried to run over me.
NO WAY !!! I grabbed the lead line and jerked the dually back several times and backed her until I was almost dizzy.
It worked, she calmed down and learned respect.
That is the one thing I will not allow, lack of respect in a horse, it's too dangerous.
Paul, kept the saddle nice and close to him as Ann suggested. We ended on a positive note and will attempt again today.
Thank you for your experience with the dually. It came to mind last night as soon as it was needed.
Thank you, we could have gotten into trouble.
The dually is a whole new peice of equipment for me and I just can't seem to get the hang of it but I will now after your instruction.
Thank you again.

Hi Julie, You have been given some great advice :-) I do not believe you are doing Oscar a diservice! You are offering him a home free of violence. Yes you sill have a great deal to learn about him and about training but hey we all do!! We all have problems with our horses that we ned to overcome. Notice i say WE need to overcome! It is usually down to us and something we are doing wrong. Go into your lessons with Oscar with confidence. If you are nervous then take some time to calm yourself by taking some nice deep breaths and slowing your heart rate down. It is very hard to think clearly and be on the ball when we are nervous. Definitely keep your lessons short. I find 30 minutes is max for Buster and he is 2 so maybe 15 to 20 minutes as someone else suggested. I have my watch on and i keep a check on the time. Also have an idea of what you want to accomplish in your lesson. At this young age what are you wanting him to do? Maybe have some fun doing the yielding exercises in Florian's video's or the standing still one....i did this with Buster yesterday :-) Alao make sure your Dually fits well. My Dually does not fit Buster very well. It is too long in the face, even on the tightest hole, but the red one does not go round his fat neck so i use a rope halter and lead for my groundwork and just get the Dually out if he needs schooling in a particular area. It is a pity they dont make one for short heads, fat necks lol!

Keep on keeping on, chin up and believe in yourself! You can do it

Janelle

Thanks for the advice feeling your thoughts and taking your advice!we practiced again im going back to the basics and i figure that its usaly the things we struggle with that we spend the most time on so they end being the things we become best at. Im taking back the power love my boy and thats what motivates me to do the best by him ive been watching florians lessons as well so all reinspired thanks feels good to know theres a support network with the love of horse at its heart julie

You're welcome Ronda I'm glad I could help, sometimes I wonder if everyone's already heard this stuff a million times but if so I guess we learn best by repetition. I'm glad Star responded well to the dually and it kept you safe. Good luck today, let us know how it goes.
Kleinne

Hi again,

The dually was always a bit big for Stars very small nose. So my ingenius husband cut the rope part, shortened it a bit and put it back together.
Oh boy, what a difference. I was just out with her using it.
Ann said that Star does not have good manners and I agree 100%.
I watched Monty's videos again with the haulter and kept what you said in mind and it WORKED.
I was able to put a hoolahoop on Star's back and she did not move a foot.
It took a few trys but she understood. I am so happy.
Maybe things will be easier now.
She didn't seem to even mind having it on and that made me very happy.

Good for you Ronda, it's so exciting when we're making progress with our horses. It's amazing what they're willing to do when they understand what we're asking of them. I just spent 2 hours working in the round pen with this little paint horse I'm training for the neighbors. He's such a quiet little thing and very quick, I was long lining him with a saddle and my dummy rider, wow can he turn on a dime. I'm afraid if a real rider was on him when he changed directions they'd have a hard time hanging on. We worked on all kinds of things today, about 30 minutes long lining then standing still and not moving, then we worked on teaching him to move over to a mounting block (his owner is an older man with a bad back). It's so much fun to see their progress. I'm so glad things are going well and you're right it makes a huge difference when the dually halter fits properly.
Keep up the good work,
Kleinne

Ronda i so need to do that with my Dually!! That's my main problem, the nose rope is way too long. I'll see if my dad - who is able to turn his hand to anything!- can make my rope shorter and i'm sure my dually will be better then....thanks for the idea!!
Janelle

The advice given here about being firm with your horse is so true - like children horses need to know the boundaries. Once they understand that and respect your space then it becomes so much eaasier to train and teach them. Unfortunately some trainers confuse firmness with instilling fear. However, if you continue to work through Monty's methods and use your Dually correctly you will be fine, so many people on the forum have great stories about how it has helped them and their horses in a humane and safe way. Truly, it is the one piece of equipment I would not be without. It has taught my spooky gelding to trust, and my other bolshy gelding to respect, all without fear or pain or force.

So very true.

I was so upset just a little while ago. We put one of Star's pastures close to the road on purpose, so she would get use to sound of trucks and things.
We have lots of walkers here in the east coast of Canada.
Regis decided to come see Star while he was walking by.
The pasture is at least 50 feet or so off the road so I thought no one will come up our hill to bother her.
He is a very nice man and very calm, he had grass in his hand and didn't that little monkey, Star, go for it.
I was just looking out the window when I saw this happening.
I ran out and said NO. He froze and didn't understand. The grass he was about to give her had some weeds in it and they would have made Star very sick.
They were from the other side of the road.
It made me wonder how many others have stopped to "visit" her.
She has become very friendly this year and follows people as they walk by.
Now I think I'll have Paul move the fence up more.
I was shaking.
How do we prevent this, I wonder?

Ronda - oh dear, this is not an uncommon problem. We had an issue locally with people tipping lawnmower grass cuttings into a horses paddock. They didn't know that they can contain lawnmower oil or that the finely chopped and mashed up grass cuttings can ferment and cause colic. They were well meaning but their ignorance could have had serious consequences. As a result the owners had to put up a polite sign on the fence asking people not to feed the horses, not even grass! Perhaps you could do the same? Thank goodness you managed to stop Star eating the weeds.

Thank you emlaw,
I didn't think about the cut grass and I was afraid to put up a sign thinking it might encourage some even more.
But I'm going to.
It will say, "PLEASE REFRAIN FROM FEEDING MY BEAUTIFUL HORSE SHE IS ON A STRICT DIET. PLEASE NOT EVEN GRASS. THANK YOU."
How does that sound?

Sounds good. Anyone who would ignore that is an idiot. Polite and to the point. I saw a sign like that at one place I used to pass all the time, and it seemed to work.

Ronda - that sounds fine and to the point, I wouldn't hesitate to put it up, better be safe than sorry!

I would put up a sign like that too, Ronda.
It's a real problem with people thinking it is OK to feed grazing horses grass and what not.
Even zoological gardens feel the need to have signs up about not feeding their animals.

hello every one i wonder if any of you have come accross your horse giving you a present, let me explane she picked up a peice of branch that had been lying on the ground with her teeth n put it over the fence to me what does it mean pls

Hi cindylou740,
What you describe seems a very sweet gesture of your horse, but it made me think of what Monty wrote in July 2012 about "Sand Colic in horses" especially Part II. If you search in Q&A at that date you might find some information that explains about your horse's behavior.
If it's not the case nothing is lost, you'll have read an interesting article.
I'm very curious to read the outcome! Let us know, please...
Miriam

I think that the horse has learned somehow that "giving a present" is followed by a treat or another positive consequence. You may try to reinforce the behaviour, could be a nice game.
Rudi