During Monty's visit in Bern I had the opportunity to see horses in training that did not go to the show. There was a "spooky" horse that had to learn to stand still despite stimulation with a plastic bag. In this particular case I realized, that the approach is different to a horse that is afraid and one that is disobedient. The first will need a desensibilization with PIC, the other one will need predominantly NIC. To use NIC in the first case would be wrong. How can we separate the two situations? The heart frequency may help (high in the first situation)?
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Can you explain PIC and NIC
raybay pic-positive instant consequences and nic- negative instant consequences In the desensitizing Monty use touch and release and in disobedience he makes the wrong behavior uncomfortable and the right behavior comfortable.Physical signs of fear eyes wide,nostrils flared and tensed muscles.
i have a pony mare who was badly treated, so frightened she would rather die than be near humans! I started with PIC, we got on quite well she stopped trembling when i went in the pen with her, however she has taken the release or back off to become aggresive and lunges to bite me so i find myself resorting to NIC just by waving her off or stomping my foot to stop her from getting too close. things are not getting better now and she is constantly warning me to stay away by shaking her head at me and charging. i know i need to have many plans, so any ideas are welcome, i cant catch her, managed a headcollar, but it fell off as i cant get close enough to do the buckle
Dear spdltd
I saw your comment only now an realized that nobody has answered. You might need the help of a professional. My (non professional) opinion: I think this animal is afraid of humans, no disobedience. Trying the Join-Up on a free field where the horse can decide to flee. This may take one ore two weeks. Go just as close to the horse as he tolerates it. You must win the game being always the one who is going away first. You will gradually be able to reduce the distance to the horse and finally touch him. The most important thing (as Monty says) is going away. (... and patience).
Rudi
Today I discovered another situation of fear / disobedience. I was riding out a horse that does perfectly well in the roundpen. We came near a place where cows were grazing and cowbells were ringing. In this situation the horse decided to turn around and I could not pass with him. We went a little distance away. When I managed to keep the horse completely still I got off and we passed by foot without any problem and the next cows we met (riding again) were less impressive. The owner says it was disobedience because he passes without problems with other horses. My interpretation: fear, overcome if somebody goes ahead taking the respionsibility for the situation. Might also be that the horse has confidence in the trainer on the ground but not as a rider.
dear spdltd
with wild horses and mistreated horses like that i used to have them in a good sized paddock and go sit near the gate on a stool and ignore them for 1/2 hr to an hr every day (facing away from them. even if they walk up to you front on. just move either you're hole body or just head. with you're eyes always looking down at the ground, keeping her in the corner of you're sight). they will eventually start to get inquisitive about you and why you don't want anything from them. also because you're not pushing the boundaries the horse won't feel pressured in anyway and it will be on her terms whether she comes close or not. always remember to take it slowly you can't undo a bad judgement on the handlers part, due to her past experiences.
once you have her trust that you won't bite put things like a headcoller out in the field hanging on a post whilst you're not in there so she can go have a sniff and a look without her thinking that somebody will put it on her. Also if you have a very well behaved horse that loves human attention. turn it out with her, and do you're normal everyday stuff with that horse so she starts to see that the other horse enjoys it. also if you put some chaff in a bowl and whilst sitting down on the stool put it out of touching reach then move it in a bit more each time gradually once she starts to eat from it. and if you have put another horse in with her make sure its not bossy with her. so she's not afraid of it. and when feeding the mare have the other horse either tied up or you holding on to it and feeding right beside you so if that horse finishes first it won't chase her off.
hopefully that makes sense and works as well as it does for me.