My 8 year old warmblood mare got some issues with her ground manners. She has a dominant and "pushing" personality. She is generally ok to catch, ties up but rarely stand still when being groomed and often tries to walk right over me (this often happens when she can't see the other horses in the paddocks which seem to make her anxious). Things are worsened when putting a bridle where she pulls back and lifts her head. If I take the halter off and put around her neck to bridle her she tries to pull back and walk off.
Once the bridle is on she changes and becomes much more co-operative. I should add though that when lunging her she sometimes try to control the gait or will pull back and stop. I have had an instructor here to help me with the mare and we have made some improvements but the problems seem to still be there even though I have learnt to control them better. I have learnt that I have to appear "bigger" than her to get her respect and she temporarily accepts me as a "leader" but will every time try to test me as a leader.
The instructor thought of the mare as "anxious" with a strong herd instinct (being an Alfa mare) but that she is also is very frightened, and that her way of "survival" is to try to appear bigger.
I should add that she is lovely to ride but I have not ridden her for a while now as I recently had a baby. I have dome some groundwork with her though (lunging etc) with mixed results.
I love this mare and she is sweet as anything in the paddock but her pushing and crowding behaviour is worrying and I like to get in control of her behaviour.
I have ridden most of my life but must apparently my horsemanship skills are not the best.
I have just joined the online university so have not tried join up with her yet (assume that is part of the answer). I also should add that I have owned the mare for a bit more than 1 year. The previous owner had her since foal but was very humble and didn't have much time for her.
I would welcome any advice about how to train this horse.
Regards,
Maria
I would welcome some advice about this horse.
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Horse Behavior and Training
Dominant mare with behavioural issues
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Hi Maria, welcome to the Uni :-) I'm sure you will get a lot of support and advice but I will start the ball rolling with a couple of thoughts! I think you need to go right back to the beginning and start as if today is the first day you have your horse. First, buy a Dually, with that, get some of her basic ground manners established (Monty does this BEFORE doing Join Up as you will see in the videos). Second, yes do Join Up if you have the facilities. Third, concentrate on establishing the ground manners and trust between you (don't worry about riding her, leave that for later - no harm will come from not riding her. Fourth, focus on desensitising her to hear head being handled and to standing still. Fifth, use the Dually for longlining (NOT single line lunging). For all these actions there is a corresponding video on here which will explain in detail how to do all these things. I think that when you have all that in place you will see a big difference. A couple of extra things particular to your mare (1) Some warmbloods are very skin sensitive and hate being groomed - especially if they are in season, they can become even more sensitive - grooming is one of those things that we think we have to do and when we do it we think we have to do it with gusto!! Think about WHY you are grooming (is it really necessary?) and if so think about HOW you groom (are your movements long and smooth and even or are they short and 'scrappy' for example). Some "lead" mares are very distracted beause they are keeping an eye out for danger all the time (it's their job!) - she needs to hand over that leadership to you but you have to be 'worthy' of it - all the above will help that and if she is distracted and looking elsewhere when 'in hadn' just quietly use the Dually to bring her focus back to you. Good luck and keep us posted! :-)
Hi Maria -Welcome to the uni. Vicci's. advice is excellent as always. Sounds like you may not have purchased a dually yet so do so first up. All these problems that you have mentioned can be corrected with join up and the correct use of the dually. Watch as many of the videos as you can first so that you use the dually correctly and effectively - the early ones on how to use the dually plus the later ones - Training a Young Horse, Training to Load are essential watching. Plus you may care to do a search on forum as we have often helped others solve similar problems to yours on forum in the past - you will find some very detailed posts on how to use the dually most effectively to solve the types of problems you are experiencing. Good luck with it . I am confident that with the effective use of the dually, consistency and patience you will solve all the problems you mentioned. With the bridling try honey on the bit as Monty does - just use a loose headstall of the bridle initially and pop it over a halter so that you can hold her while you do it - again check out Monty's video. Have fun!
Hi Maria,
I Highly suggest that the first thing you do is buy a dually halter. They aren't that costly and they work wonders with pushy or behavioural horses. This situation is easy to fix so long you use the dually halter and do the exercises effectively and properly. With consistency and patience, you will find that the dually halter will do most of the work. My older mare used to be very pushy, the broodmare type, the whole bossy and moodiness. I did one session with her just leading and backing with the dually and it fixed it all. If you find on the website, there are loads of helpful videos in which will help you and your mare solve the problem. Good luck with her and remember to keep us posted! :)
Welcome to the uni & welcome to owning a sensitive mare! I agree with all the excellent advice above. The Dually is an exceptional tool when used correctly & consistently, it'll help you no end.
If i'd not been lucky enough to see one of Monty's demos about 2 weeks after i got my mare, i'd have never have handled her as well as i have; she's a sweetheart BUT, she's always testing me to see if i'm worthy of being a leader.
A couple of things to think about are:
Being a leader means keeping your emotions under control.
if a correction is needed, do it immediately & calmly then move on.
Strong Mares will regularly test you, but if you are consistent with your handling & which behaviours are acceptable & which aren't, they will respect you.
If she's worried, reassure her & remember, praise is much better than constant telling off, so be very quick to praise.
Mine was constantly throwing her legs at me & her teeth, she was a bit of a monster at 3 1/2, but i tried not to be constantly having a go at her, instead the second she made the slightest hint of doing what i'd asked for, i really praised her up, instantly the ears would go up & she'd think about it & gradually she became trusting & accepting of me.
Best of luck with her & do make sure you have fun while you're learning together.
Thanks all for your helpful advice. I will definitely go ahead and buy a dually halter after hearing your hints. I have been using rope halters for quite some time which have worked ok but obviously not fully:-)
I have had some success with her but it's generally two step forwards and then one step backwards. She is a real sweetheart at the same time and has come a long way as when I got her she didn't even like to get scratched. Now she loves it! I agree with you Vicci, she is very sensitive to being groomed although I do need to brush her. She is a grey mare and easily gets very dirty even wearing rugs.
Beryl, your horse sounds very similar to my mare and I have had experience like yours. You can't punish her when she does things wrong as that makes things even worse and lead to more anxiety etc. Praising her when she does things right though makes her calm and willing.
I will keep you all posted on how she goes...Thanks again.
Looking forward to hearing about your progress Maria, we've all benn through it so we're with you ;-)
yes, i do have to step back with mine sometimes & look at my behaviour as if i get into the mode of constantly correcting, she does get worse, if i lighten the mood, & ignore some, not all naughtiness, it usually lessens, BUT, when coming out of season especially, she will push it too far like on Sunday morning; i tacked her up with her grumping about it, ignoring her telling me she'd like to nip me, then i stretched her legs when the girth was fully done up & the minx bit my ribs, she is a brat sometimes, she got a telling off! I then made her work in canter for her cheek!
The reason she didn't want to be ridden is cos she's got 1/2" of winter coat grown & it was pretty warm & she can't be bothered!!!
Hi again Maria - do purchase your dually as soon as you can as you will find it makes an amazing difference. So much of Monty's teaching needs the dually as a compliment. Rope haters are more effective than the traditional halter but the dually is better again and excellent for controlling and disciplining pushy, bossy mares. Given you use the rope haters you may find it easier to put the rope halter on first then put the dually on loosely over the top and then slip the rope halter off from under the dually prior to tightening the dually up so that it fits snuggly as in the demonstration video. The dually is just a little bit heavy and awkward when you first start to use it And some horses are a little worried about it initially. I used the rope halter and then the dually for a number of years with my young bossy mare and have only recently started catching her with the dually if I need it. Once they have been trained to be trusting and respectful with the dually then you can revert to the rope halter or even a tradional halter.
Oops missed a few ls in halter here IPad!
Beryl, while I respect your knowledge of your own horse I am a little concerned about some of what you are saying - it may be just colloquialisms that don't travel well across cultures and continents so forgive me if I am misunderstanding! But your comments such as "she got a telling off.I then made her work in canter for her cheek! " - what does that mean? How did you 'tell her off' - do you think she really and truly understands that running her round in canter was a 'punishment' for trying to bite you? Corrections have to be instant - after that they have no meaning other than to cause confusion. "The reason she didn't want to be ridden is cos she's got 1/2" of winter coat grown & it was pretty warm & she can't be bothered!!!" - is that the reason? Or is she trying to tell you something else about girth/saddle discomfort? As I said, I may be reading too much into a causal chat/comment but my curiosity got the better of me and I had to ask! :-)
yes vicci, it was casual chat, i do know my horse very well & she'll often decide she doesn't want to work BUT once she starts working, she listens very well to me. she is a very dominant mare & can be very idle. I told her off but using her bitless bridle to correct her in exactly the same way as using the Dually halter as she did bite me in the ribs!!! not by shouting or any means of violence.
Regarding the fit of her saddle, I've been fitting saddles for about 19 years or so & i make bridles & repair saddles, i don't make saddles. My mare had significant saddle fitting problems as a youngster & it took me & my saddler Steve Hartill of Pennwood saddlery 5 years ( with me observing, feeling contently & taking many photos of the saddle on her back & of her back after work showing how it sits to work out how best to adjust things to suit her) to get her saddle fitting perfectly - it still does, a lot of it was down to my work on straightening her up; the last time he saw her he didn't believe it was the same horse!
Girth: http://www.bforrestsaddlery.co.uk/girth_saddle_9.html
You may not believe we have that close a bond that i know why she's behaving as she is, but i do - she won't put in any more effort than she has to if it's too warm, that is normal behaviour for her.
i also didn't mean that i got on her a straight away made her canter for hours, again, idle chat, i schooled & when warmed up i worked on canter transitions. admittedly, i was pretty annoyed that she'd gone as far as biting me quite hard in the ribs & DECIDED to make her work, NO, it wasn't a punishment!!
No problem in asking vicci, it was a bit of joviality, the one thing we need around horses, is a sense of humor, that is what makes us keep out temper.
Incidentally, Steve Hartill is a Consultant Saddler who helps other saddlers who are having problems with fitting certain horses.
Hi Beryl, thanks for being so gracious about me asking, written word is hard to interpret sometimes and I am fully aware that one of my least appealing traits is to disappear up my own backside about issues sometimes!! I try hard to curb it and one of the ways is by asking for clarity haha I don't doubt your bond Beryl and what an amazing commitment to saddle fitting! Thanks again :-)
Hi vicci, i couldn't possibly comment!!! haa haa haa!!!
The commitment is to the horse, my horses are my family.