Christena this just sounds incredible. there is no way doing join up in itself would destroy a horse as it is their language and they do it all the time themselves. Ever watdched what happens when a new horse is at first introduced to a herd of horses? The more passive ones will be chased away as in join up. The alpha horse will try to fight to find his place and he may well get badly injured if not removed in time. I am so sorry for you for knowing such a nasty lady. I will enjoy watching your videos and then I will comment again.

Thank you MaggieF. I can't see how I caused any damage to any horse doing join up. In face I have helped the horse I have worked with. The owner of the horse that I was working for is stuck in the old ways. Its sad but the horse in the videos was sent to a old cowboy for braking. :( and the little girls is not the same. :(

Hi Christena
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What exactly is the damage this lady says you have done to the horse? I too have had to defend my training methods at times, but with my own horses, not with anyone elses.
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I have been accused of confusing the horse and have been warned that my horses will "blow up" one day because I have used Monty's methods. In my opinion this is complete rubbish.
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Kind regards,
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Gen

She is saying that because of the training that I have done to the mare she will not accept a saddle and could never be ridden by anyone. She said that I don't know how to train horses at all. I damaged her horse so bad she had to pay a "Real Trainer" $900 to broke her horse to ride. She also said that I was teaching her to kick when being touched. The mare was only 18 months. I would did not feel right mounting her at that age and I told her that.

I understand Quarter horses are ridden a lot earlier than the European warmbloods, but at 18 months, any horse is still a baby (at least in MHO.) Why would she want to mount and ride such a young horse???
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This sounds very much like the actions of a person who can't accept and/or admit to her own failures/mistakes, and is desperately searching for someone else to blame.
There is usually no way of changing their mind or prove to them that they are wrong, because they just can't/won't. They will only get more aggressive in their own self-defence.
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I am really sorry you have become the target of one such person, Christena. I'm no expert, but from what I can see from your vids, you haven't done anything to cause a horse to become "impossible".
That you have taught her to kick is absolute rubbish! If you asked her owner why you would do such a thing - and put yourself in harms way - I doubt she could give a logical explanation.
It's too bad for the little filly, but I hope you can put this behind you and move on to let your good work speak for you.
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On a side note, I'm thinking that horse owners who are about to send their horse to be trained in Monty Roberts' (or similar) methods, need to be more informed and educated beforehand in how they work - and how to handle a horse trained with them - or they might well do a lot of damage to the horses, as well as the trainer's reputation, by sheer ignorance. (Not sure how this would be arranged, though! Just a thought.)

Hi again Christina
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Don't worry, from what I can see you have done the right thing with your horses. I love your videos. I don't think the lady understands the way you work with horses. I agree with you on mounting a horse at 18 months, but there are a lot of trainers who do start their horses at this age for futurities.
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Your videos say everything for you. Don't worry.
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I got told that I was making my horses sour due to sending them away for join up and that I was doing the wrong thing by allowing the horse to move while desensitizing (you know how you touch with the scary object and move it away when the horse chooses to stand still). But I smile when I go places with my horses and they willingly explore and cross bridges etc and theirs don't. I feel sorry for the horses though because I know I don't have to be rough to achieve what we need to do.
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Don't worry :-)
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Kind regards,
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Gen

Hi Christena - I have now watched a couple of your videos and I can't see that you could have done any damage. The problem does seem to be a matter of the lady not understanding what you were attempting to do. Perhaps you culd encourage her to watch some of the free 'horseandcounttry.tv'episodes with Monty and Kelly Marks as this would give her a better understanding. Most of those videos start with join up. It was a pity that the little filly seemed so distracted and that you really failed to successfully gain join up and follow up but I can't see that you did any damage. The second attempt seemed a little better. I would have moved the feed bins out of the round pen prior to commencing as these did tend to block the filly's flight path. It is hard to perfect join up but the more videos we watch with Monty or Kelly doing it the more we can perfect our own training and experiences - the body language is so important so try to follow Monty's movements as much as possible. Thanks for posting these videos - it was smart of you to keep a record of your training episodes. It is always difficult training someone else's horses. All the best and hopefully everything will sort itself out.

Christena,
After watching a few of your videos I would like to suggest that you work on your training techniques and get them perfected before taking on the roll of professional trainer. While I don't think that you did any harm to this horse, I also believe that you don't have a complete understanding of Monty's methods. Video #2, I didn't know what you were trying to do with the horse and I've never seen Monty use this method of training. I agree that this horse is far to young to be saddled and ridden and it's obvious the owner is uneducated about what's an appropriate age to do this. There is a huge responsibility in training someone else's horses and a comprehensive knowledge and extensive experience is essential for success, especially if people are paying for your services. It is not my intention to discourage you or to be overly critical, I only want to give you an honest opinion and help you gain a better understanding of how you can improve.
Good luck,
Kleinne

Hi Klienne - this was important to say. I do hope you can appreciate Klienne's honesty, Christena. It is hard to speak out when others have been so positive but you do need help and honest opinions. I felt similarly but found it too hard to put into words as I did not wish to offend you and I often put things badly. I gather you were helping out voluntarily but you really do need to improve your technique before posing as a trainer. It is also very important to include the owner and encourage them to look at some of Monty's videos so that they can understand what you are attempting. If the owner has some knowledge of Monty's training methods then they are in a better position to approve or disapprove of you handling their horses so that misunderstandings do not occur. I am very reluctant to allow someone else to touch my horses as it is so easy to do damage even with good intentions. Try to learn from this experience. Watch a lot more of Monty's videos with join up and the use of the dually so that you gain a better understanding of the join-up process before attempting it so mistakes are not made. The dually halter is an important accompaniment to join-up as it helps you gain the horses trust and respect both before and after the join-up session. Purchase or borrow a dually prior to attempting your next join-up. If you do wish to help someone else with their horses make sure that they are also aware of Monty and his training methods before you commence. As Monty says "if the horse doesn't join up then we are at fault as the horse knows the language" - we need to learn it!!

Hi Christena, do you have a youtube channell? I have tried to look at your videos but it cannot find them. Might be easier if i go to your youtube channell :-) Won't make a comment until i have a look at the videos
Janelle

Thank you all for your comments. I very much value all your opinions. Before working with the horses, I was the rider for her with her other horses. I am a exerciser for horses and would like to get more into training. Seeing how they go hand in hand. You can hear the owner in most of the videos talking giving me good comments. Wouldn't you think that if the owner was thinking that I was harming her horses she would have stopped me at any moment? And after working with the little filly when I told her we need to wait tel she is older to go any farther. She agreed and then had me work with her two colts.
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Yes in my videos I refer to my self as "trainer" that was only to not put my real name on there. I don't really want people to know that I am taking on training clients quite yet. I do hope to be taking on training jobs this time next year. As for my "training" education, I have a level three endorsement through Mr. Reise and working on my parelli games. Although most of my own methods are what I have developed of my own when I have worked with my own BLM Mustangs.
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Also I should have posted that I did not charge her for any of this work. I did it for my own education.
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Here is my URL to my youtube. http://www.youtube.com/user/CaptainTripps2010?feature=watch

Hi again Christena - You have had a couple of really positive comments here in addition to the not so positive ones so be pleased by that. I have watched your first two videos with the little filly a couple of times now and I still have a very reserved opinion of them. The most disappointing part is how you conducted the join up process - I could see little of Monty Robert's calm approach to join up in your video. Sadly too because you failed to gain an effective join up the little filly appeared confused and less trusting of you after the attempts than before hand. Once I went to a Pat Parelli week-end training session but as I did not see Pat perform a join up session I cannot comment if you are following his methods. I find Monty's methods suit me better as he has more repour with the horses and really gains their trust and love but I acknowledge that Pat is also a great horseman - each to his own here. However in your videos with this little filly you are supposedly trying to achieve join up as a Monty student so it is therefore important that you do follow Monty's methods and try to master his join up procedure. Just watch all those videos over and over and practise, practise, practise. Unless we are super experienced with many years of training and handling horses it seems inappropriate to try to develop our own methods. Initially we need to learn from others who are experts and focus on their methods prior to adopting our own. None of us can do it exactly as Monty does - he is the expert - but we can aspire to getting it as right as we can and our horses will tell us when we do. This little filly had no idea of the language you were using and was just confused and frightened. I think it is great that you are aspiring to be a trainer and to take on clients so why not enroll in one of Monty's Certificate Courses and really learn how to do it so that you can become a great trainer? On a positive note I totally agree with you that this little filly is too young to break-in and ride. She needs at least another 12 months to grow and develop.

Hi Christena - I have now watched more of your videos "Training Priscilla". She is such a sweet little filly and appears very tolerant. I share your concern and dismay that she is to be broken and ridden at such a young age. In some of these videos you are much better and on occasions appear to be quite the professional. I must ask where did you learn to put a saddle on a horse like that? It was awesome and dquite blew me apart.

MaggieF, Thanks for the comments what video are you referring to about me saddling?

It is the one where you initially did quite a bit of work with the lead rope around her legs which I liked. I think it was the first time you put the saddle on her.

Oh ok. I learned to saddle a horse like that when I was working with my mustang. I never really thought it was anything special. Its just how I carry my tack. With my mustang if you every tryed to saddle him like a normal horse he would blow up, due to past abuse. He would accept the pan (such as Priscilla did) But you show him a saddle and the rodeo was on. So I thought if he accepts the pad then lets act like the saddle is just another pad. Don't just throw it on and watch the fireworks but let it in place like a pad or blanket.

Thanks for the answer, Christena. The video provides a clear demonstration of the saddling and as I found your method quite unique it is good to have this explanation.

Hi Christena - I ended up watching all your videos so thank you for posting them. Because I was watching them critically to try to find out where you went wrong I learnt a lot from them. Do hope the situation has resolved itself by now and that you are able to move on. All the best with learning to be a professional trainer - I am sure it will all happen one day.

"where you went wrong" should read "IF you went wrong" my apologies!

Hi Christena, so far I've watched your first video and totally agree that that filly is to young to be ridden and that you are not harming her a bit. From what I could see she seemed to be nervous and whinnying for her friends. In some parts of the video I couldn't see Monty's calm assertiveness like Kleinne was saying. I don't believe you are harming her but I don't think you are getting the greatest benefits of Monty's methods. I was happy to see you are Parelli fan! I am too:) I like Pat's and Monty's methods and I pull from both to get the best benefits. I agree with both of their methods but I prefer Mont's method for starting young horses. It seems less stressful and makes more sense. I've been to a Parelli clinic before but have never been to one of Monty's. I hate that and really want to attend one but most are to far away. I think you are doing great learning the methods. They take time to perfect! I have by no means perfected them. You can never stop learning:) I suggest you watch Mont's new video this week about starting horses. I've had an incedent once where I didn't acheive join up with a friends horse because she free line lunged him alot. I don't think he could tell a difference. Good luck with you're training. You are doing great learning so far. I'm sorry that lady misunderstood your methods but NEVER GIVE UP! Sorry she sent the poor little filly to be broke. Theres always tomorrow. I hope to hear from you soon. Best wishes!

Madison

Hi Mel here and still a newbie myself to Monty's ways, I thought it was distracting for the school to have both water buckets and feed buckets I the round pen, this wouldn't give the pony the opportunity to just canter in a complete circle, it seemed to me that they were obstructing his path so interfered with his flight pattern?

I've not don't join up yet with our pony, he's just coming up to 2 years and we're building the round pen at the moment.

Will remember to record my attempts when it happens :D

Enjoyed the comments they were very helpful.

Mel x