Dear all,
I'm writing from Argentina (my apologies if my writing isn't correct enough) looking for some advice of those having experience with these beautiful animals. My dream has always been to have my own horse and twelve years ago, due to different life circumstances, a beautiful mare was given to me. They were, are and will be my passion, but I was unexperienced at that time...I began riding my mare, I did everything that I thought an owner should do, feeding, showering...and everything was fine. I knew that this mare had been terribly mistreated by the one who was "taking care" of her before, but she never had big problems with me "apparently"....until one day, after riding, I was giving her a shower as always...and she bit me very, very badly. Since then, I stood paralyzed with fear each time a horse was close to me so, I gave the mare to a friend which had a lot of space and other horses, in order to be sure that she was going to be fine with other horses, despite she was not going to be ridden any more at least, by me.
After that, I studied Petrochemical Engineering, began working in the oil & gas companies...and after almost three and a half years, on March 1st I resigned my position on the board because I really wanted a different kind of life. I came back to my home in Mendoza...with nothing. The only thing that made me feel happy was the idea of buying a horse and start again to make my dream come true.
I began searching options in order to improve my learning about horses and found Monty Roberts' Online University, ans I sucribed a month ago.
After a lot of searching, I found a beautiful and very powerfull 6 years old stallion, about 1,70 height, impressive. His owners were dumping him because he wasn't good enough to win a race. I drove 300 km to see the horse and when I arrived, the first thing that I could see was that he couldn't stand still with his front foot aligned, he was walking barefoot and without any kind of mainteinance of his foot. He was nervous, really nervous...but I could see my reflect in him. I brought this stallion home two weeks ago, I found a farrier who was able to stabilize his arms doing a correct work with his foot and Marx Boy (the stallion) began to feel better, he even rolls around the ground in the little paddock I could prepare in such a short time!
Now that he is feeling much better, the problems and his strong character are arising! The round pen I am about to construct is not going to be ready at least, for the next two weeks. I have to prepare the space, buy the wodd fence posts, the sand... I know that the first I should do is the Join-up thing, but I need this two weeks. Meanwhile, every morning I feed him in the box, then bring him to the paddock and in the afternoon, bring him back to the box, where he has his dinner. He has tried to bit me twice, always invades my personal space when I come with the food and he is really, really big. Sometimes I can send him away but sometimes he looks me in the eyes as saying "ooohhh...I'm a lot bigger, I don't trust you, If you do anything that dislikes me, I can bite you". I'm not afraid of him, he is not mean, I have ridden him twice for short periods, maybe 30 minutes each, in order to evaluate his response. He goes across forward, never straight, and begins going backwards as if he don't want to cooperate. After seeing this, I thought that the best thing to do before trying to mount him again is begin from the start point. He has been alone, without being ridden for the last year...so, we have to be partnerships first.
The other important thing is that I have to lead him to the paddock and to the box at the end of the day, and It takes all my strenght to do that...you can imagine that we haven't achieved a "sweet spot". He always wants to go ahead, he stays still for a while, stares at everything and suddenly wants to run in circles. It takes a minute to calm him down...but the path that should last 3 minutes it takes me 10 and my right shoulder arrives wreck to the end point (my left shoulder had a surgery last year)..:-( That's not the way It's supposed to be lead...I know.
After explaining all this, I would like to ask you for some advice in order not to get hurt before the round pen is ready. Is there any exercise I could begin practising with him to boost his trust? There are no Dually halters available in argentina, only common halters, so...that's a strike against me too.
Thank you all for your help!!
← back
Horse Behavior and Training
Asking for help not to ruin my dream
Rewards
Subscribe to Equus Online University and become a part of Monty's worldwide mission to leave the world a better place for horses and for people too.
Students automatically gain access to special rewards, such as exclusive discounts at the Monty Roberts Online Shop. Visit Monty Roberts Online Shop.
Hi
Probably you can buy a dually at the online shop here. Before having your dually, you can also try a rope halter, because It's easy to build your own if you can't find one.
http://www.naturalhorsesupply.com/tiehalter.shtml
The advantage to the rope halter is when a horse pulls the rope pulls behind the ears and is not comfortable. This means the horse will learn to give to pressure, instead of fighting against you, destroying your shoulder. A rope halter needs to be tied correctly, well adjusted to the horse.
I will advice not to ride him before you gain respect with groundwork.
However, a stallion is alway more difficult to manage than a gelding. Get some advice from a professional. If you don't need him for breeding, talk with your vet if he can geld him, although he is already 8 years old.
Stay safe
Thanks for your advise. I do not want to geld him because breeding was one of the reasons for searching a stallion. I will buy a dually at the shop online, be sure of that!! But meanwhile...I will try with a rope halter. Today he has been really calm, but I can't be sure that he is going to be every day like today because of what I told you before. I live in a retired area...and the culture here is really violent with the horses, most people don't believe in Monty's method. I'm really patient and I'm not afraid of him so...I will go step by step.
Cheers.
Hi May - what a fantastic story. I am so pleased that you have come back to horses and that you are now following your dream. However it sounds as if you have taken on a big challenge with this powerful big stallion to start with. I had to convert cm to 'hands' to work out how big your stallion was and if my calculations are correct with 4 inches or 10.16cm = 1 hand then he must be almost 17 hands high (16.7)so that is big and you say he is powerful as well so that to me means a big frame - wow!!. Is he the horse you are on in your photo? If so he is really cute and looks great. Good luck with buying your dually - you will need the blue one unless he has an unusually small head for his size. I ordered my first one from Montys' on line shop - they convert the currency but you will need a city address for it. Great you are building your own round yard but it does take time and it is such hard work - good luck with it. I am still trying to finish my small one for my shetland - only 13 metres in diameter. While you are waiting for you dually use the rope halter as suggested by cyril but with a long lead rope so that you can keep him back off you if he is playing up and you have more control. The long lead rope is also handy as you have some coiled in your hand to shake at him if you wish to send him off you or move him into a circle. Use the rope halter as Monty does with the dually - really correct him if he goes to nip. Unfrotunately the rope halter is not nearly as effective as the dually so try to buy one as soon as possible. Alternatively you may be able to improvise with a strap of leather across his nose through the rings of a conventional halter and then attach clips each end with a hole punch. Haven't tried this myself - just a thought. I know that they sell stallion chains which are like this and my sister who is a very horsey expert uses a chain like this but I have never liked that idea much. It will be great when you get your dually as you will notice an amazing difference with it. It should arrive as you finish the round yard so then you will be really ready to handle this fellow. I wouldn't do too much with him until then. Given that you are now looking after him correctly with worm dosing, trimming his hooves and feeding him correctly you can expect his character to change substantially as he will be feeling so good and very playful so do be careful. Watch his feed and convert back to grass hay only if he is becoming too boisterous. If he has been raced he will be used to a lot of exercise too so he will need as much as possible once you can organise it safely. Stallions are such a handful and need so much more discipline than mares and geldings but given he has been raced he should have had some good training in the past. You will need to re-enforce that before he starts taking advantage of you so lots of handling and disciplining with the halter and as much exercise as you can give him. You may consider buying a Pat Parelli type wand to help keep him off you and to discipline him with - not to hit him wih but to guide him and use as an extension of your arm to instruct him with if he does become at all dangerous and aggressive. When you are leading him try to keep him at the sweet spot if you can - it is very hard to do without the dually and he has obviously not been trained to lead in the sweet spot in the past. The fact that he goes into circles confirms this! It seems that he has been able to walk ahead of his handler out of control and then the handler has sent him in circles around him as a correction. That is why he is doing that with you - he has been trained to do it so you will now have to untrain him! I wouldn't attempt to correct this until you have the dually and the round yard - it is safer for you to let him do this at present as long as his circles are wide enough and he is keeping away from you. The circles themselves are a self imposed form of discipline for him and ard to correct without a dually. Once you have done join up with him it will be so much easier too. Good luck - you have taken on a huge challenge but I am sure you know that already!
Hi MaggieF! My apologies about placing his height that way, I completly forgot that you use inches... Taking into account the conversion from 170 cm to inches, yes, he is 67" height (almost 17 hands, that unit was unknown to me until today! Thank you for that). He seems to be smaller than that in the photo, right? That was the second time I rode him, it was pleasant for a while until he began steping backwards, but I was able to calm him down after 5 or 6 steps. I know he is a huge challenge, but I couldn't stand the idea that he was useless, it can't be possible...such a stallion? Secretariat's and Herberger's blood runs through his veins! But the racing world is cruel... he always started running 100 meters after the others because he didn't want to come out the gate, despite that, he arrived 3rd or 4th each time. After realizing that he has never been well farried, maybe the pain in all his body create that resistance. They made him go out with the wire system... His old owner told me "no, he was born that way, he walks like that but it doesn't hurt him"...my god, I couldn't believe it! I have seen his change in a few days after the farrier made an incredible work taking into account the F Balance.
What a coincidence...lots of my back pains were due to the way I tread, and nobody thought that was the cause... Suffering pain all the time changes our humour, and I was just like him some years ago! I practise show jumping with horses that are not mine...maybe some day we become a great binomial, and if not, he will live his life in a good place, with people that takes care of him and love him.
I'm going to start my work with him when the round pen is finished, and I will record the sessions in order to get more advice from you.
Thanks a lot!
May - the photo shows what a beautiful fellow your stallion is. It sounds as if he has had a rather horrific life so far so hopefully he will respond to your kind treatment. You were brave to ride him out initially and you look great on him. He will be so much fitter now so I would suggest stay with the ground work for awhile. I will really look forward to watching your videos with him. Not sure about my advice - it is somewhat limited as I am not a professional but just a novice with some experience. Take care and stay safe.
Hi May
You were very brave to buy a huge stallion! But there is always hope. One year and two months ago I got bucked off by a horse and I broke my back (T12 vertebra). I can walk but only very slowly. I love the outdoors and now after the accident my horse is taking me on trails were I can not walk by myself. O.K enough about myself. I would love to give you some advice. Remember advice is just that, advice. You decide what is going to work for you and what not.
Advice:
Never ever hand feed your horse!
Also while you have your horse on a halter lead or by the reigns of a bridle the horse should not be aloud to eat!
If you would like to feed him an apple, cut it up in pieces and put it in a container from where he can eat it.
Arange feeding time so that you do not walk into his pen/corral/pasture with his feed, it is asking for trouble.
When your horse is eating that is "me" time for the horse, do not touch him, do not bother him.
Always make your horse to move his feet even when you are brushing him. For example when you are cleaning the left side, make him move to the right, and then when you walk to the right side to brush that side make him move the left. Use this time to make your horse soft and responsive. If you would like to make him move his hindquarters to the right (away from you) use the soft at first approach. Do it as follows: point with your finger to his hindquarters if you are lucky he will move away. If not put your thumb very soft against his but. If he still does not move away push hard with your thumb. He still does not move away? While pushing hard with your thumb hit him with something simular to Monty' giddy up rope. (You do not need to hurt your horse, just make him jump away) After he jumped away, stroke him gently on the spot where you have pushed with your thumb and talk softly to your horse. Do this everytime both on the right and left side. Believe me after a week or so your horse will move his butt away from you when you are pointing your finger at his butt! (I am doing this with my horse, and it works like a charm!)
Is your horse walking into your space? Look him square into his eyes and point a finger at his breast. He does not move away? Put your thumb softly against his breast. He does not back up? Push hard with your thumb. He still does not back up, hit him with a "giddy up rope" on his breast so that he jump back. Soon after a week of this training if you look your horse square in the eyes he will not move into your space.
After my accident I was not aware of Monty Roberts and his online university. I managed to do with a rope halter what Monty does with the dually halter (I bought dually halter since) Because I have trouble walking and can do so only very slow I trained my horse to walk very slow with his head beside my right shoulder, when I am leading him. To do this you must be very persistant. If you are persistant then you are fair. It is unfair to allow something today but not tomorrow! The first day it took me ten minutes to lead my horse a hundred yards! Everytime he walked faster than me, I backed him up a few steps. After a week I could lead me horse any where and his nose will stay at me shoulder. Sometimes my horse forgets or he gets excited when there are other horses around and then a small reminder and a few steps backwards reminds him to walk slowly with me.
Further do a lot of desensitizing with your horse. I would go into his pen and start cracking a whip untill it does not bother him at all. I like me horse to stand still for a cracking whip while I am holding on to his halter lead. I crack the whip to his right and left side untill he is standing there with a low head and wanting to fall a sleap! But remember incremental training, do not hold on to his lead rope untill the cracking whip does not bother him anymore. I do this training untill I can circle my horse while cracking a whip and he just stands there with a low head and the cracking does not bother him at all. The next step is to let the whip fall on his neck (do not hurt your horse!) I do this both on the left and right side untill it does not bother him at all then I would do the same by letting the whip (you can also use your lead rope)fall over his back and then over his butt and then snake around his hind legs and finally around his front legs. Your horse should alowed all this while almost falling asleep! Then watch on the online university how Monty gets a horse to walk over a tarp. Do it untill it does not bother the horse to walk over a tarp. Then take the tarp and brush your horse with the tarp. Do it untill he stands deadstill with a lowered head while you brush him all over his body.
After this you will have a very quiet horse! Now you are ready to take the horse to all and every scary object in your neighbourhood. Ask teenagers to start up their motorbikes next to your horse's pen. Let them ride up and down in front of the pen untill it does not bother him one bit. Do you know somebody with a tractor? Do the same thing. Drive your car up and down in front of his pen! Open and close the doors. Do any thing that normally scares a horse untill it does not scare him any more. Of course while you are doing these things there is nobody on your horse' back so it is safe to do.
When I hose my horse down after a ride on a hot summers day I do it as follows: Begin with say his left front hoof. Spray the water directly on his hoof and immediately take the water away. Repeat untill it does not bother your horse. Then repeat with the other hoof. Then do the legs one by one and continue untill you can hose the horse down while he is standing still.
So you were bitten by a mare? It is very unfortunate. Monty might agree with me, but mares can sometimes (not always!) be unpredictable. Mares with their monthtly cycles and their hormonal fluctuations sometimes make them bite at you when you spray the water on a certain spot on their body or when you tighten up a cinch. (Since you gave your mare away you do not have this problem anymore) My best bet is that a stallion would be more prone to biting than a gelding, but if you keep in charge and never let your guard down you should be O.K. An animal trainer for sircus animals once said that horses are more dangerous than elephants and tigers! The reason for this is that while working with elephants and tigers and lions you will never let your guard down and you will expect trouble any moment and thus keeping it safe, but with horse we alowed ourselves to let our guards down and then sometimes the most trusted horse can take us by surprise.
My last piece of advise would be to watch Monty very carefully on the online university, his advice and methods are worth a million times more than the amount you are paying to be part of his university.
Keep it safe and take care
Lukas
Hi May
You were very brave to buy a huge stallion! But there is always hope. One year and two months ago I got bucked off by a horse and I broke my back (T12 vertebra). I can walk but only very slowly. I love the outdoors and now after the accident my horse is taking me on trails were I can not walk by myself. O.K enough about myself. I would love to give you some advice. Remember advice is just that, advice. You decide what is going to work for you and what not.
Advice:
Never ever hand feed your horse!
Also while you have your horse on a halter lead or by the reigns of a bridle the horse should not be aloud to eat!
If you would like to feed him an apple, cut it up in pieces and put it in a container from where he can eat it.
Arange feeding time so that you do not walk into his pen/corral/pasture with his feed, it is asking for trouble.
When your horse is eating that is "me" time for the horse, do not touch him, do not bother him.
Always make your horse to move his feet even when you are brushing him. For example when you are cleaning the left side, make him move to the right, and then when you walk to the right side to brush that side make him move the left. Use this time to make your horse soft and responsive. If you would like to make him move his hindquarters to the right (away from you) use the soft at first approach. Do it as follows: point with your finger to his hindquarters if you are lucky he will move away. If not put your thumb very soft against his but. If he still does not move away push hard with your thumb. He still does not move away? While pushing hard with your thumb hit him with something simular to Monty' giddy up rope. (You do not need to hurt your horse, just make him jump away) After he jumped away, stroke him gently on the spot where you have pushed with your thumb and talk softly to your horse. Do this everytime both on the right and left side. Believe me after a week or so your horse will move his butt away from you when you are pointing your finger at his butt! (I am doing this with my horse, and it works like a charm!)
Is your horse walking into your space? Look him square into his eyes and point a finger at his breast. He does not move away? Put your thumb softly against his breast. He does not back up? Push hard with your thumb. He still does not back up, hit him with a "giddy up rope" on his breast so that he jump back. Soon after a week of this training if you look your horse square in the eyes he will not move into your space.
After my accident I was not aware of Monty Roberts and his online university. I managed to do with a rope halter what Monty does with the dually halter (I bought dually halter since) Because I have trouble walking and can do so only very slow I trained my horse to walk very slow with his head beside my right shoulder, when I am leading him. To do this you must be very persistant. If you are persistant then you are fair. It is unfair to allow something today but not tomorrow! The first day it took me ten minutes to lead my horse a hundred yards! Everytime he walked faster than me, I backed him up a few steps. After a week I could lead me horse any where and his nose will stay at me shoulder. Sometimes my horse forgets or he gets excited when there are other horses around and then a small reminder and a few steps backwards reminds him to walk slowly with me.
Further do a lot of desensitizing with your horse. I would go into his pen and start cracking a whip untill it does not bother him at all. I like me horse to stand still for a cracking whip while I am holding on to his halter lead. I crack the whip to his right and left side untill he is standing there with a low head and wanting to fall a sleap! But remember incremental training, do not hold on to his lead rope untill the cracking whip does not bother him anymore. I do this training untill I can circle my horse while cracking a whip and he just stands there with a low head and the cracking does not bother him at all. The next step is to let the whip fall on his neck (do not hurt your horse!) I do this both on the left and right side untill it does not bother him at all then I would do the same by letting the whip (you can also use your lead rope)fall over his back and then over his butt and then snake around his hind legs and finally around his front legs. Your horse should alowed all this while almost falling asleep! Then watch on the online university how Monty gets a horse to walk over a tarp. Do it untill it does not bother the horse to walk over a tarp. Then take the tarp and brush your horse with the tarp. Do it untill he stands deadstill with a lowered head while you brush him all over his body.
After this you will have a very quiet horse! Now you are ready to take the horse to all and every scary object in your neighbourhood. Ask teenagers to start up their motorbikes next to your horse's pen. Let them ride up and down in front of the pen untill it does not bother him one bit. Do you know somebody with a tractor? Do the same thing. Drive your car up and down in front of his pen! Open and close the doors. Do any thing that normally scares a horse untill it does not scare him any more. Of course while you are doing these things there is nobody on your horse' back so it is safe to do.
When I hose my horse down after a ride on a hot summers day I do it as follows: Begin with say his left front hoof. Spray the water directly on his hoof and immediately take the water away. Repeat untill it does not bother your horse. Then repeat with the other hoof. Then do the legs one by one and continue untill you can hose the horse down while he is standing still.
So you were bitten by a mare? It is very unfortunate. Monty might agree with me, but mares can sometimes (not always!) be unpredictable. Mares with their monthtly cycles and their hormonal fluctuations sometimes make them bite at you when you spray the water on a certain spot on their body or when you tighten up a cinch. (Since you gave your mare away you do not have this problem anymore) My best bet is that a stallion would be more prone to biting than a gelding, but if you keep in charge and never let your guard down you should be O.K. An animal trainer for sircus animals once said that horses are more dangerous than elephants and tigers! The reason for this is that while working with elephants and tigers and lions you will never let your guard down and you will expect trouble any moment and thus keeping it safe, but with horse we alowed ourselves to let our guards down and then sometimes the most trusted horse can take us by surprise.
My last piece of advise would be to watch Monty very carefully on the online university, his advice and methods are worth a million times more than the amount you are paying to be part of his university.
Keep it safe and take care
Lukas