Hey guys,
some of you asked for more stories about my business with horse training, so, here we go:
There's a young mare, she will turn 4 in April. She was born where she lives, and last year her owners could do anything with her: walk her over plastic, cover her whole body in plastic, put the saddle on and lean over her. So, she doesn't know a rider yet, but that's no big deal. But, the problem is, that she started kicking towards people. As soon as there is something she seems not to like, she will kick.
Here the situation I found myself in on tuesday this week:
We did double long lining. It was the first time in her life. At the beginning she always coiled up within the lines, but as soon as she understood what she was asked to do, she was quite fine. At some point in training I noticed that she needed a small break. So I went to the owners, talked to them for a while. She was right next to me, everything was fine. Suddenly she nearly ran me over, and I schooled here to back up on the dually halter. She did not like that, took a few steps back and then reared up striking with her front legs. She nearly hit my arm. So, I schooled here again. That's when she started striking forward with her front legs again while standing. I put her to work once again with the long lines, wanted her to do some turns for me. But instead she started backing up into my direction kicking out the whole time. I put lots of pressure on her and eventually got her to move forward. After two more rounds I quit the training for that day.
So, training her was not too much fun for me that day. I wonder, if I should advice kicking rings? What would you do?
Cheers,
Jasmin
Hi Jasmin
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Ok, I feel i need to give you a little bit of overall advice. Try not to be too solution focused with these problem horses - I work with dogs, horses, and I work in child protection and I can tell you that the most crucial thing in all these situations is to go from the causal end not the solution end. I hope I am not coming over as patronising, if I am I sincerely apologise, it's hard to convey feeling in written form sometime.
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If you leap into a solution ("should I use kicking rings") all you are doing is addressing a symptom. If you cure that symptom another one will erupt because you suppressed the first one but didn't deal with the root cause.
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Horses never do anything for no reason; it makes no sense to them in terms of survival strategies and energy wastage. If she never used to kick and now she does, something has happened to make her kick and she learnt that the kicking was effective i.e. what she kicked went away :-)
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I have worked with many clients and if there's one thing I have learnt is that you do not get the whole story without a lot of digging and what you think is happening is not always what is really happening!! So get your shovel out Jasmin and really dig into what is going on - get your clients to tell you EVERYTHING (bad and good!)
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So, on to the long lining and a few questions please. (1)How long had you been working her when you decided she needed a small break? (2)Is there a particular reason for you going back after that to work her some more? (3) "She was right next to me, everything was fine. Suddenly she nearly ran me over,..." I respectfully suggest that if you were talking to the owners you were not concentrating on what the horse was doing so you may not have seen/sensed whatever it was that has clearly frightened her. Was she still 'wearing' the longlines while she was stood next to you? How long from the very beginning to the very end did this episode last?
Good morning Jasmine. Vicci is right -on with her questions; And as you write the answers, my hope would be that your answers would provide you some clarity to the episode you described.
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.The only question that I have is; is the mare at your facility? If so; how long? Sorry, that`s two questions. If she is at your facility, [assumption on my part] then you have a RESPECT issue. You describe a conversation that took place between you and her owners with the mare standing at your side after successfully working her; she bolted toward you, almost running you over, caused by WHO KNOWS WHAT JUST HAPPENED????
The mare made a choice as to which direction to flee and you drew the short straw. My question, sorry another question, is why do you think she took flight in your direction? This really predictable for a young horse in a new facility, with a new director-general, when faced with the reality of "WHERE IS MY SAFETY NET?" This mare is probably confused, to say the least, while being emotionally stretched with her new environment.
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.If you think that my assumptions have merit, then what I would suggest is for you to contact the owners and ask the to give some time [week] for their mare to be away from them and for her to bond with her. Then start at the beginning as you see fit. Try to forget her outbursts and leave them in the past. I hope this will help you.
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Respectfully Bud
sorry," meant to say bond with you".
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.Bud
Perhaps as well if it's sudden is she in season? Sorry such a dopey question! My mare is a total lazy girl until her season when she becomes a raging bull in the china shop and will kick out at the sight of her saddle/anything work related and her rugs. She'll also strike with her front legs and hop/buck down hills tail swishing for what seems like 'kicks'. End of season... end of problems... She is 4 rising 5 and the worst of the issues were last year when she was 3 1/2. lots of the mares I work with have in these last couple of weeks become lunatics (in the kindest most understanding way) and have all come into the first obviously 'displayed' season of the year. Perhaps suggest they get the vet/physio out so tick all the boxes then don the safety gear and go gently forward? Only you know what the mare is trying to say. Would love to hear how you get on with her!
Ah, yes good point Becky - looking for seasonal correlations is essential in mares
Hi Jasmin
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Just adding to the above comments, just to try and help you think what happened around the event.
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How were your energy levels when you schooled her when she struck out?
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If your energy levels went up as you schooled her rather than keeping your breathing in check and keeping calm, she could have interpretated your schooling as a challenge and something you did at first when she struck out could have told her you were not the leader. Stepping back when the strike out, flinching are all signs in Equus that move you down the hierarchy status. Regaining that status as a leader needs correct breathing and a low heart rate.
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I agree that if this is a sudden change of behaviour something has happened to cause it, or being a mare ;)
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Our BamBam when we first got him suddenly became aggressive in the stable and we didn't know why until one of the girls at the stables said he tried to jump over the stable door so to keep him in their they filled bottles with stones and shook it in his face. I could quite understand his behavior change then.
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Think back over the first event when she struck out, who was near you, were there any changes in the school, yard etc. It might not have been anything you did, but someone nearby. Remember the horse sees everything around them too.
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Hi Jasmine. If I understand the situation correctly, what you have here is a youngster, of nearly 4 years, who has been brought up by caring, gentle owners. However, this youngster feels the need to communicate with her feet when out of her comfort zone. Believe me, if she was trying to hurt people she would have done so - she is expressing herself in the only way she has found to be effective. In short, someone has caused her to behave this way, not recognised the error was theirs, not hers & so she continues to be misunderstood.
When my filly was 6 months old she loaded into my trailer next to her 14 month older brother. In fact, she beat me up the ramp, had a lovely, short, slow, unstressing journey, off loaded perfectly. The next time she saw the trailer, 4 months later, she absolutely refused to even entertain the idea of loading - striking out with her front feet, rearing up & throwing herself into her Dually again & again. We changed lots but in the end my 10 month old walked the less than 2 miles, down a busy country road - a much tougher ask but she was brilliant! 7 months later we needed to move to the winter field. I thought long & hard & my solution worked. Days before the move I put the trailer in the field, opened it all up, front & back & left her to explore. She was naked. She was not separated from her herd. She gave the trailer a thorough investigation, walking through again & again, often from front to back. A few days later we repeated this experience, stopping her with a mint & gently putting the breast & bum bars across, letting her free again & finally upping to full enclosure. When the move came, she loaded without hesitation, naked.
Your filly has an issue. There is a chink in her trust. You need to work on building her confidence. Short sessions - maybe she reacts to being out of her herd for what she thinks is too long. Maybe she feels she's being asked too many questions all at once & blows her cool. Concentrate on having her successes, go baby steps with lots of praise. In the long run, slow is fast. Cheers, Jo.
Hi Jo; very well stated with a great story with a better ending.
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.Sharing these stories makes us all better with our horses. Thank you!
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.Bud
Hi Jasmin! Just got around to this thread. Love what every one has been writing already, so here are my two cents.
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I like to chip in with Becky there about the mare being in season.
That was my first thought when I read your initial post about her turning four in April and has started recently to kick out. I see no surprises there!
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It's a young mare and possibly experiencing her first "real" hormonal changes.
In my experience, most mares between say 2,5 and 4,5 can turn into "monsters" at this age.
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The extra dose of hormones also tend to make them antsy and not in the mood to tolerate being "told off" (or told anything, really) by anyone. (Compare with teenage girls throwing temper tantrums!) Some are possibly in pain or made uncomfortable by the ovulation etc. which also makes them "predictably unpredictable" with sudden anger management issues out of the blue.
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After that period in their lives most of them seem to adapt and calm down again - provided they are "handled with care" during this period, of course.
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My advice: Just go easy with her and try to assess her mood from day to day. If she kicks because of season related troubles, kick rings won't make thing better, I think. It's just more things that are uncomfortable for her "back there". (I want to kick out too when I get cramps!)
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That kind of kicking is often a reflex reaction rather than aimed at some thing, so not always a conscious act. Correcting it can be hard because she won't connect the dots if that is so, which can give rise to insecurity and more "bad" behavior.
Stay calm, turn her head towards you and at the same time ask her to move her hind legs away from you.
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If she kicks at things (having learned that they go away then) use a carrot stick or whatever that you can *safely* touch her with and don't remove unless she is still, so she teaches the stick to go away by standing still.
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I am sure this will ebb out eventually. Just hang in there!
I agree! Maybe just stay in the comfort zone for a while? Do stuff she likes and can do easily. I have just stuck to hacking about with my 'monster' and when I say monster I mean MONSTER. She has no respect for electric fencing and has trashed it all to smithereens multiple times. She just leans on it absorbs the 12V bolts and lets it snap under her weight. She then tears around everyone elses grazing ruining it. She kicks out at every other horse, presses her face into the bars of her stall when a 'boy' comes near and grunts at him. All this with no signs of 'flashing' and although shes not in season now shes still on the come down so has been a monster for about 3 weeks with the peak being last week. It's tiring.. but I know next week she may be meek as a lamb. I hope!
How did she go Becky? Any change in mood?
Mel
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Hi everybody,
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wow, these are lots of good advices, thank you!
I am sorry that I was not able to answer earlier, but due to some health problems I have been to hospital for several days. Sadly, this period of time was to long for the owner of my little filly, and she decided that I should no longer come and work with her, she already found somebody else to do what I was supposed to do.
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So, thank you all a lot for these many answers, I will keep them in my memory palace and use it, as soon as I get another chance to do so.
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Big hugs,
Jasmin
Yey you're the first one Jasmin I've met that works with a memory palace. Me too, just takes a while to remember where I put it :)
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Hope you're feeling better now and such a shame about the filly. Another will come your way!!.
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Are you attending one on Monty's demos in Germany??
Mel
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Yes I do, Mel :) I am just a beginner with this, but I like the idea of it and noticed that I can learn more concentrated with it. Another thing that helps me quite a lot is to do meditations.
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I am still ill and it will take several months from now on, but I will keep working during this time, I am pretty sure that the worst is over now.
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Sadly, this year I won't be able to do so, but I hope I will be able to attend one of his demos next year. Last year I have been part of his local crew here together with a friend, who became my boyfriend in the same night - so that's why I love attending Monty's demos even more! :D
Brilliant on everything Jasmin, you meet a great crowd at the events and we've all go the one thing in common, we want better and kinder for the horses. Shame you'll miss this tour, but fingers crossed for you it all goes to plan for next year.
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Get better soon!
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