So glad to hear you're happy and Shilo's doing great, can't wait to read more about your future rides together when he's back home ! :)
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About the bit, you didn't say whether it was always the same person being less patient with Shilo. Is it possible if it's just one person that they're just less patient than the others ? Or that they were having a bad day/week? or is that wth everyone because it doesn't sound like everything else you've talked to us about their way of doing things over there.
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I know sometimes when i'm preparing Dayka, some days she will take the bit right away, some days i'll have to keep my hand cupping her lips with the bit in my hand until she opens her mouth. Sometimes it can take quite a bit of time. I imagine it's the same thing for you ? you need to keep calm, stay patient and show Shilo that whatever bad memory he's associating the bit with, that's in the past and from now it will be alright because you'll wait for him.
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Idk just my humble opinion, more experienced members will surely help here :)
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Shilo is a lucky horse to have you for his owner !

Hi, like Lucie I'm very happy for you, it feels like you're going to do many new things with Shilo now!

I agree with you too, it doesn't sound like the right way to deal with the bit. The good news is, Monty has videos on this uni on how to teach a horse to accept the bit, so you can watch them and I'm sure you'll succeed! Stay patient and you can put some honey on the bit ^^

Looking forward to your future stories!

The team at the mustang farm consists of Henrik, his wife Marianne and their daughter Trine. The business actually belongs to the daughter who is a very experienced spring and dressage rider, she has also worked at a place called Blue Horse her in Denmark which is a very prestigious stud farm. I have talked to Marianne about it, but the general opinion is that Shilo is a very mentally strong horse, along with his fysical strength this combination could lead to disaster- which I already have experienced.
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They seem to say to me " give Shilo an inch, and he will take a mile" so I have always got to be on top of him, and not let him "win".
When I try to give him the bit he refuses, (wins) when Trine gives him the bit, he backs and lifts his head, but she won't stop and forces him into a corner and eventually wins the battle.
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She says that he will stop this behavior - she says that she has tried this with a thousand horses and they do eventually 'give in', but it means fighting with him .....
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This type of human behavior is against what I have learned here at the Uni, and when I look at the CENTAUR/ Abigail videos I know that there is another way. The trainer used 10 minuites a day for 8 days and the horse Abigail ended up seeking the bit herself.
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It does seem odd that the Mustang team choose this path, after all of their good work this seems to muddy the water a little.
I don't know if the Mustang horse needs a different approach due to their nature? Maybe someone else knows the answer to this, but my little welsh cob Shilo doesn't need this kind of attack!!!!!
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I will get him home and take the Monty path as it sits better with me.

No iea about the mustangs, i'll let the others answer that :)
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The way you're describing Shilo with the bit is exactly where i was at the beginning of the summer with Dayka. Maybe i can tell you how i did with mine if it could help you with yours (the more i read shilo's stories the more i think yours and mine would just get along so so well... haha).
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First i stopped keeping her tied when trying to get the bit on. Instead I keep my line on the floor and put my arm under it so that if she goes forward my arm stops her, if she goes backwards my hand is right by the line to grab it. with my right hand i hold the bridle on between her eyes, putting her head in a lower position already, then with my left hand i lay the bit flat against my fingers and place my hand on her lips (as if i were feeding her the bit). I don't put any pressure at all against the lips, i just sort of "hold" her lips in my hand. After a while she just opens her mouth and i can gently slide the bit using both of my hands, never pulling from the top because that could bang her teeth but rather using my index finger to sort of puch in the middle of the bit to pass the teeth faster. Sometimes when she doesn't want to cooperate insteadof waiting i'll bit the bit just past her lips, on her front teeth just touching, not pressing and that helps.
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When we're just "hanging out" i've noticed that this was soothing to her, holding her mouth like that, when she's relaxed or very stressed out she'll look for that contact and lean on my hand if i stay there. I encourage you to ty it on Shilo when you're not trying to get the bit on to see if maybe that'd be something he responds to.
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I've also noticed a huge difference if you hold your bridle between the horse's ears with your arm above his head rather than keeping one hand on each side because that prevents you from banging the teeth when pulling the bit up into the mouth.
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I practiced this for 2/3 weeks with Dayka and we really started from a point where she would run backwards to avoid it so hoepfully this helps you too :) (and as a bonus, putting the bit on this way has taught her to bing her head by the ground when i'm putting the halter on as well and/or the fly mask, so that's very convienient for your daily handling.
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Sorry for the long answer, it's hard to explain, i shoudl have just videotaped it ! haha

Thank you Lucie for your help.....but I figured it out.
I have posted the story..

Hello Dionne and Lucie; my compliments to you both; a very nice discussion about a problem that 80%, of the riders, have to deal with. Why????? Because they don`t take the time to help the horse understand that the bit is part of their riding connection with the horse. As a consequence, they continue on the battle the horse to accept the bit on their terms; NOT HIS.
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Dionne, you were so right to call attention to the folks running the operation of the training farm to a problem you saw with the training of your horse. It really doesn`t make any difference how much experience that a trainer has in years if they are missing something as large as getting a horse to accept the bit; especially when it was their idea in the first place to start him in the bit. I believe they used, as a reason for the bit, that Shilo was so hard wired in his behavior and needed extra leverage to bring him under control; so as to make him more compliant and accepting to the rider`s direction. These folks need to know that they missed a vital component in Shilo`s training. That is really too bad, because you are so happy with most of what was done with Shilo at that ranch. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY THAT THEY CAN GET BETTER in what they do.
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Lucie, your words describing how you helped Dayka accept the the bit were well stated. I, especially, like how you described holding the bridle between Dayka`s ears while your hand was resting on his poll prior to asking him to receive the bit. This, in my pinion, sets up the horse for compliance to what we ask of him.
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Dionne, there are just NO SHORT CUTS when asking a horse to understand what we are asking to do at the time. I am happy that you had the confidence to speak out. We, as trainers, have to find a way to communicate what we want from the horse.
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You really sound like you are ready for the challenge of taking Shilo to next step in his training. You are well on your journey to make that happen. I look forward to the next chapter with you and Shilo. KNOW, THAT WE ARE ALL HERE TO HELP, TALK, OR TO SUPPORT IN ANY WAY. That`s what good horse people do for each other.
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Happy trails my friend
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Bud

Hi All.
When i started the desensitizing of the bit 2 days ago I had rope halter on Shilo, I used the line attached to the halter and made a bridle shape from it , I got Shilo's head nice and low and put my right hand up between his ears holding the fake bridle, when this was hanging between his eyes I used a little of the rope and tickled his mouth , after a couple of try's he mouthed the rope and allowed it in his mouth.
From that I used the honey stick as Monty did, it took several attempts before he allowed it in at the side of his mouth, he just wanted to take it from the front and hold it himself like a cigar.!!
When he took a break, I took off the rope halter and let him just do what he wanted in the round pen, he continued to take to honey stick in his mouth and play with it in his break time !.
After this I took a loose bit, just the bit and no straps and again made a fake bridle from the rope halter, holding it the same way between his ears so it dangled down between his eyes, then I took the bit in my left hand and touched his lips with it, each time holding it a little longer before removing, followed by lots of praise and a short walk around.
So the first session went from violent head tossing and backing up, to a horse who will stand still and allow the bit to touch his mouth.
The second session took place 2 days later, this time in his stall.
I asked Henrik to help me as this stage would require a tall person to hold the bit at the mouth if Shilo raised his head.
So with Henrik on Shilo's left side and me on his right side holding him in a rope halter we began.
Henrik held the loose bit with his right hand in one ring at the side of Shilo's mouth, he had his thumb tucked under the rope halter allowing his hand to stay in place is Shilo raised his head.
The first two times shilo tossed his head very hard up, but the bit stayed in place at his lips.
When Shilo discovered that this reaction would not get the bit to go away he stopped tossing his head and allowed Henrik to hold the bit at his lips, Henrik then placed a finger inside Shilo's mouth on the left side and when Shilo opened his mouth Henrik gently moved the bit inside, after two head tosses more with the bit in his mouth, he stopped this reaction allowing Henrik to hold the bit in place for longer periods.
After gently removing the bit Shilo immediately was rewarded with lots of praise and a treat.
Henrik continued this maybe 6-7 times, with Shilo now lowering his head and searching for the bit.
Then Henrik and I swapped places and I did the same, though I did t need to place a finger in Shilo's mouth as he opened up himself.
We took maybe 3-4 ten minute breaks throughout this session.
Then I went alone into the stall and offered Shilo the loose bit which he took everytime.
I think I did this about 15 times and then swapped the loose bit for Shilo's full bridle, with the same result.
After a break, I bridled and saddled Shilo with no fighting, fuss or bother and we went outside into the round pen where I rode Shilo for about 7 minutes only, as I could see that he was finished for the day, but I thought it important to finish the session with a complete result.
I did ask Henrik if I should ride him after all of this work and Henrik said that as it was a different thing we would be doing he thought it to be ok, and that Shilo needed to anyway come out into the fresh air after the session.
So after riding time for this short time, I took him immediately out to his friends in the big paddock where he stayed for the rest of the day.
It was a hard work for Shilo, a very intense hour for him, but a very important hour.
If like me you are not very tall, I would suggest getting the help of a taller person and show them the centaur/ Abigail video first.
What a great day I have had.!!

Thanks for the re-cap, Dionne! :) Great work!!!
Great team work too. I'm very happy to hear that Henrik has such an open mind to new(?) things.
I hope Trine will have a chance at testing this new method too so she and Shilo won't just remember the argument they have had, and it reverts back to that soon as she enters the stall.