Hi Unicorn,
I'm not completely certain what you mean about the ears with your horse, but in the lesson, Mouse is certainly listening and I can see her ears are definately inolved in all her thinking and processing of her surroundings and the new things being asked of her. Perhaps this is what your Oscar is doing? Is that what you meant?
As for "nicely" telling people how to behave around your horse, You just have to tell them :-) Obviously you would be polite and do it with love, but if they need to be told, they need to be told, so they and the horse can be safe. If it were my child, I'd say something, so the same thing should apply with your horse.
I have no idea if I have been helpful lol, but best of luck :-)

Hi unicorn - do hope the new trainer works out well i.e. hopefully he is familiar with Monty's methods. If I were you I would just not allow anyone other than myself and/or a qualified trainer near my horse until I was confident that he/she was trained - even then I would be careful! Someone asked it she could ride Tricka the other day. My response was not at present. She is still suffering from her fall over 12 months ago and I am only riding her spasmodically and very gently. So tell those people to butt out and keep away from Oscar!

Hi maggie and rahni and all where to begin im really confused i now have a horse on my hands that double barrels you rears and lashs out? the two trainers i had have their own methods and oscar has a real stubborn streak he will work well for a bit but when his had enough thats it ! their are no trainers it seems that do not use a natural way they all use whips I feel like i have really stuffed up Oscars training I now relise I dont have the tools and im going to have to send myself on a course just so i can build my confidance and knowledge base. When oscar turns now he relises by lashing out and that he is stronger I now have to undo this damage and to be honest he scares me as im not that fast on my feet .Oscar is fine and gentle when your not asking to much of him but as soon as he thinks his had enough he gets grumpy and I am only talking ten fifteen minutes into a training session! Am i right in thinking that he needs to do as i ask until i feel a win and i dont mean exhaustion oscar has it that he gets to make the descion Im going to do join up again for a few days but i am concernd about his kicking any advise will be greatly received

I totally agree with Maggie! It sounds like the only thing that other people have done is to confuse you and cause Oscar pain, so now it sounds like he has become dangerous. I'm really sorry that this has happend :(
My only advise would be to find a Monty instructor in your area and go to them for help with Oscar. If you are at the point where you are feeling nervous and not confident around him, he will sence that and dominate you, which could end up with you getting hurt or worse. You need to stay safe. It's not worth risking yourself if he is likely to strike out or double barrel you.
IF you think a join up is worth a try, wear a helmet, vest and have some one near by who can be there incase of an emergency. Video your session too.
That is fantastic you are going to do one of Monty's courses!! That sounds like a really positive step for you and for Oscar! Keep us updated :)
Stay safe xx

I'm really concerned to hear that Oscar has become really dangerous.
I urge you to find a Monty instructor ASAP. I don't know how experienced you are at doing Join-up but unless you are very good at it, I would strongly recommend you NOT to try it unless you have an experienced instructor beside you.
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I think part of the problem with Oscar is that while he is a good boy at times, he is a good boy *on his terms*. When you ask him to be good on your terms, that's when he doesn't want to play anymore.
I think your basic idea of asking until you "win", is sound, but you need to be sure you are asking no more than he is able to give and give him a break soon as he is a god boy on your terms.
He has found a great method of not having to submit and I'm guessing he has also become quite confused, so he is sticking with his way because that is what he understands.
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You could try going back to very basic ground training in the Dually. Just asking for going forward and backward. Take a couple of steps in each direction, and reward with a pat and leaving him alone before repeating.
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Another good exercise that serves to relax the horse while you take control over its feet, is to bend his head towards you and ask him to move around his forehand on a small circle. It's important that the inner hind cross underneath and in front of the outer hind - that means he is yielding to your aids and relax - not just runs away from your touch.
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You can also try to grab his tail and use it (carefully!!)as a "brake" or resistance to help stretch his muscles.
Soon as the inner hind crosses, stop and reward. In the end you should be able to do at least a full turn in both direction.
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You can also push his front away from you and the near fore should then cross in front of the outer fore. This can be harder, but very useful on a horse that barges into you.
The goos thing with theses exercises is that you can always use them whenever your horse gets agitated or nervous, for example when you are about to mount him for the first time, or something spooks him, because it is something he recognizes, knows he can do, and will feel safe in.
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Do be careful and stay safe!

thankyou beautful peoples today we did go back to basics and i wore a helmet we tried a join up he is being stubborrn and dosent want to play after he decides weather it be 5 min in or 10 oscar is not moving away as well as he did i think because others used whips . so we went in i showed him the points i released and he went of for a feed with much zest i got him moving with lots of animation he will go around on the right a few times maybe three then stops at the gate and trys to turn or stands and looks at me i have to push him we diid then few good rounds so i turnd him well hole other issue going to the left stopd kicks stomps bucks faces me i even gave in and let him walk at least one lap then i relaxed and he came to me we did some backing and i took him back brushed fed and loved im going to try again tomorrow even just back to leading all this whipiing has just made him defensive and very reactive he spooked in the paddock and lpt into me like a baby and stood close he just dosent relise that he is a big boy . thanks kiki im going to try what you said about moving him and where just going back to building our confidence again unfortunatly in perth their are no monty trained people there is one parelli lady i may go down this avenue im not giving up and the poem on one of the other feeds has filled me full again of inspiration im just going to bond with oscar again and go and get some help to train me as monty says its the hands that hold thankyou for all your good thoughts jules/ oscar

Hi again :) I'm pretty sure Lynn Mitchell has been over your way to run courses, perhaps if you get in contact with her, she might be planning another trip? Even to just email her about Oscar might be helpful for you. This is her website: http://www.schoolofequus.com.au/

Hi Unicorn - I am so sorry to hear about Oscar! He sounds to be similar but not as damaged as Banjo the horse I have recently been involved in. It is really hard when they start playing up like this. Oscar does need to learn to respect you and trust you again and you him which is the really hard one. Banjo's owner ended up being nervous of him and I think once you are nervous you do lose the plot as the horse realises he has it over you. Kicki has given you great advise. Oscar sounds dangerous now so take care and take everything slowly but try not to let him put it over you. When I was working with Banjo last Monday he did act dangerously towards me - the first time he has shown any aggression to me and I have pushed him hard in the past but he has learnt to really disrespect people lately. I would have liked to try join up again with him but there was really no where suitable at the agistment property where he was being kept. After working with him with the dually on the ground I decided that I would lunge him again. I had lunged him successfully once before but the owner had warned that Banjo would not lunge so she hadn't tried to lunge him at all since she bought him. I was a little stupid as I chose to use just a long lead rope - about 12 metres long and not the lunge rope but I had my Pat Parelly wand with me. It was really hard to move him out away from me but I finally got him out with the dually and he walked fine for me and then trotted nicely until suddenly swung his head under the lunge rope so that it was now on the off side so had cleverly put himself into a position where he could back into me and double barrel me and he thought about it!! I managed to quickly jump to the outside and swing his head back towards me but it was pretty scary! After that he was super hard to send out but I am very stubborn too and got him going again and this time he was fine. Just got him to walk and trot for me and then finished with lots of praise and pats which he really didn't care for. Oscar is not like Banjo as he is untrained and so far has not been 'broken' but he has become distrustful of humans and seems to know he has the upper hand so he is also potentially dangerous. I am not sure how I would handle a horse that is striking out with its front legs as I have always felt safer having a young naughty horse facing me! Tricka was naughty at one stage too and had the potential to strike and bite but the dually really helped me solve this. It is hard but you do need to stand your ground and win and if you do not feel able to do this then do try to get a natural type professional to help. It is difficult to find a Monty type trainer here in Victoria. Lynn Mitchell will help owners and horses do join up and learn dually techniques but she did indicate to me that she does not train young horses. Emlaw suggested a Pat Parelli trainer www.kayethomas.com.au/ and I would have tried her for Banjo if I had taken him on. I am not at all regretful that I wasn't given him - relieved but I am sad for him. Kaye Thomas my have made the difference but the traditional trainer he has gone to will probably re-train him effectively and he is used to that type of training. Take care with Oscar and stay safe.

Hi how you describe banjo geting the rope over him and try to back at you is exactly the trick oscar learnt with the last trainer they are so clever . glad you were safe Today i went back to oscar right back to the start gentle and full of praise and on with the dually we just walked around the paddock trying to find our sweet spot again today i found my oscar again we worked quietly and displining firm with the dually i got the oscar back that when i just lift my hands and say back he went back i loved him up he put his head in my arms and i have to say i nearly cried . He responded to me today giving me respect and answering my requests he did swing his head but i did a few tugs on the dually and it was enough Today i feel like if i just continue and undo what has been done we may be okay i have just emailed a parelli instructor who is not far from me so hopefully i can get some help .I also got oscar to move around me again but bringing his head in and pushing his bottom out his still a bit spooky he got a fright and leapt into me again not sure about training this one out of a horse but will do some research it really just proves to me with in a few hours of using the dually and montys methods how we can move forward and get a little win thanks lovelys and stay safe !!!