What bothers me the most with this video - which obviously is edited and taken out of context - is that a lot of people sees this and immediately take the standpoint that alternate methods in general and Parelli methods in particular, are bad for horses or - at best - no good trying out.
Whatever the poster intended with it, it's not helpful to horses at all.
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I don't feel I'm competent enough in Parelli methods to discuss what Linda Parelli was doing/should have done in this obviously very special situation, but discussing the natural aspects of herd behavior would be very interesting, though.

I havent seen the video yet, but I agree with Kicki that discussing herd behaviour would be intersting and might just give us humans some insight into the world of our horses, or atleast us new/learning horse owners.

If I would have been the horse I would not have understood what the trainer wanted me to do. Comparing different methods of training I am always trying to find the common way first and then the differencies. The common idea would be the sending away. The difference is that the horse will understand it more easily when done it in 45 degrees angle.

I just watched it and felt so sorry for the horse. I'm sure Monty would be horrified..

i have seen this before on the parelli level 1 dvd and was concerned about the way in witch that horse was treated, it actualy turned me off the parelli methods. i think this method just an validates people taking out their frustrations on the horse, the main thing that i love about Monty is that he always seems so calm when he is around these beutiful animals and that is something that i strive for, to have his level of serenity when things arnt going my way.

My opinion is she is being too abrupt and too forceful. The horse's breathing and tense head-up posture say it all. I've seen some of the best horsemen in the world (dressage) and they get incredible results without that kind of forcefulness. Monty, too. Asking a horse to pay attention and to move over isn't new and can be done much differently than she is demonstrating.

Shepet: I'm so glad you have seen the entire dvd. The 400-500-some comments on the Linda Parelli blog site have many people explaining that the horse was in an active dangerous behavior state, necessitating "high energy" from Linda, and "getting through" to the horse more or less "now", more or less "whatever it was going to take" (paraphrased). In addition comments state that not enough of the video was made available to show how the horse became calm and responsive after Linda's handling, which the commenters assert would prove the means to the end were "justified." Would you share what you see in the video, the 'before' and 'after' of the section on YouTube? Actually, does anyone know if the entire video is now available anywhere? (Many people asked that it be made public to get the complete picture available and to help calm people down.) Rudi: Commenters say the horse did *not* know what Linda wanted because he was not paying attention and even railroading over her, so that she had to "get" his attention. Now back to the issues of herd behavior: Linda visibly and repeatedly slaps the line on the horses face, legs, and other parts of his body, and the slapping does not appear to me to be just attention-getting, but to inflict ("just enough") pain to induce him to do what she wants. Those actions are partly what people are defending when they say that in normal herd behavior, horses inflict pain to get what they want. If I have this right, we of the Join-Up persuasion (among others) talk about training horses and control over them in terms of influencing their movements or non-movements, but we specifically do not include inflicting pain as the mechanism. I certainly know horses will kick and bite each other, but can anyone comment, or point to articles or information on, how those behaviors relate or don't relate to controlling another horse's behavior?

Endospink,(youtube Hybrid Horsemanship),would calmly T.A.P or half TAP a horse like him.Temporary attitude persuader.Had there been a heart rate monitor attached to this horse ,it wd probably have been around 200,high head,high adrenaline.Plus the Parelli halter system does tend to put the nose up and it's tough on the poll, the chunky clip bangs the chin and corners of the mouth when you forceably wave that weighty rope about.
When Tapped the heart rate is around 130.I think that is interesting! What does Mr. Roberts think of the TAP as used by Paul Williams.What exactly would Mr Roberts have done in this very situation,with no round pen facility.Would the Dually halter have made a better impression on the horse? What length of lead rope would he have employed ?

Disregarding the fact that the video is obviously edited, these are my thoughts:
-It is in no way clear what she is asking. As a human being with a much greater mental capacity than a horse I was getting confused at what she wanted. It is COMPLETELY unrealistic to expect a horse to understand what she is asking- telling by all that slapping, jerking, and hitting.
-How is this horse a candidate for needing this sort of forceful behavior? He does not appear to be aggressive at all, rather he looks to be sensitive which would be why he is distractable. By raising his adrenaline levels, all she is doing is aggravating the problem.
-Did anyone else notice that she is creating a head shy horse that is only concerned with escaping from her? Even when she is "praising" him, he shies away from her and shows signs of stress. This is not training, but breaking, and is the sort of thing that many of the "trainers" I know use. It is amusing to me that all these same people have no luck at all with arabians- and subsequently hate them, due to their sensitive personalities. Not that this horse is an arabian, I am just pointing out the similarities in personality.
-All in all, no matter what was edited out, the video was disgusting. To me, it matters not what is added to those moments because they were wrong the moment that she caused this poor horse confusion and pain.

I once toyed with the idea of Parelli but when I loaned a beautiful part bred Arab (thoroughbred), I was told he had been used to Kelly Marks methods, I went at my computer like a woman posessed. I joined the university, bought Monts' books bought a dually halter. I loved the methods as they could not get closer to nature. When my nervous, intelligent boy arrived at the livery\place I vowed to keep up this method with him. The dually is a god send, he knows how it works and accepts it fine. There is absolutely no need for any slapping with anything at all. My boy is now being ridden in the dually. All he knows from me is sweet rewards when he does well, (which is all the time) of stroking and telling him he is a good boy. He has gone from jelly legs and spooking at everything to a gentle teacher. Love can acheive so much and as for join up and Montys' way it is nothing short of a miracle for us, I would never deviate from it. Whatever Linda was doing it does not seem to sit right in my own mind. Had it been my boy I reckon he would have turned to jelly again.

i also feel really bad for the horse because all he is doing is running around in circles. The poor thing doesn't know what in the world the lady is trying to tell him to do. I bet that all he will remember from this experience is the random pulling tugging and that weird wiggle of the line.

I felt so sorry when I saw the video that I almost could not watch it to the end. I totally agree with Kim: no matter what was edited out, it does not justify the way she treated the horse. He looks completely confused and overstressed. Makes me sick.

OMG! Firstly this horse starts out calm, senses her impending domination of him and tries to leave by walking past her. She talks about keeping his eyes on her, eyes on eyes means go away! not Back Up! If in fact that is what she was trying to do. She got in over her head and when he did not do what she said she did what a someone who violates does, she upped the addren, and subzero'd any possible learning. Yeh thats natural horsmanship right, just whip some sense in to him, if that doesn't work lets yank him around some more, if that doesn't work lets whip his legs, lets edit so that we skip to where the horse is lathered up, panting and so shut down and she still starts to whack its head with her hand! This horse has one eye, of course it is gonna watch all around it for danger more then another horse, its not being disrespectful its doing what 50 million years of evolution has taught it to do, compensate, look more often! This is her EGO being bruised and the horse being Abused, sickening

Firstly I am NOT one to normally post my thoughts on things as we all have our own free will . But this was absolutly horrendous , whether it has been edited is irrelevent ,this is NOT the way to handle any horse .

Not only is it sickening but very very distressing in so many ways .... All I can say is thank goodness we have Monty to show us all another way .

My first day at University brought me to this sight. Before I joined here-I was wavering between dumping a ton of $$ to buy Parelli videos or join Monty U. Wow I am now confident my choice with Monty is the correct one for me. As the raising your energy to meet horses, I have heard a few of well known trainers say it's more effective to actually lower your energy when horse's is raised in oreder to create a balance and calm them. Also, I quit shaking the lead rope at may mare as it seems to scare her.

I am not a fan of Parelli methods. To me it is just all about $$$ and not about the horses. When you have to shell out that much $$ to buy all the "necessary" equipment to train your horse properly is just highway robbery. Parelli's methods are either you love him or you don't. The people who are so brainwashed because of the big Parelli name don't realize there are lots of REAL natural trainers out there.

Here is a video about an expensive jumping stallion named Catwalk. At this demo Catwalks only remedial problem is a hard bridler. Tell me why a leg rope is used to get a bridle on a horse. That is NOT natural horsemanship, that is Abuse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gf7w_1ifus&feature=player_embedded

Here is a great video of real natural horsemanship for a distracted horse. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OP6WdKZLv0U&feature=related

Thanks for posting this last link. What a great study to compare the 2. The difference I see is the use of reward/positive reinforcement when the horse makes even a small effort to make the right choice-so he is able to learn in small steps the correct behavior or what the handler wants. No snap on lead rope either to inflict pain.

I haven't watched the video...and by all the comments I don't want to! I don't know much about Parelli either besides what I've seen on his website and the fact that many people I've met know of him. I'm very lucky that I was introduced to Monty from the very beginning of my work with horses. I'm still considered a beginner, but I wanted to make a comment about herd behavior. I don't know much about it--but I would LOVE to hear Monty comment on herd behavior..but this is my sense of understanding why the herd behavior mentality might not even apply here. It is my understanding that horses know we humans are predatorial. So it wouldn't make any sense for us to consider ourselves a member of their "herd" and act like another horse would in their herd. A horse fighting another horse seems like it would be better understood and communicated about "why" there is biting, kicking, violence going on. We as humans/predators can't expect that a horse will understand us as another one of their herd when acting violent...even if they have experienced violence from another horse before. It is extremely different. We are a different species, different communicators and have different intentions. When I work with my horse, I don't expect her to understand me as a horse. I expect her to understand me as another species trying to communicate with her that she can trust me and I love her. Violence would never get me there!

i have watched the video clip and it really doesn't look very natural to me, i see no freedom of choice for the horse in this one, only a confused and frightened animal. I am even more convinced that montys way is the right one, and i am continually grateful to monty for discovering and sharing the language of equines with us all, and only hope that through his methods, we can continue to improve the lives of our equine friends (and humans).

I notice the original video clip is no longer available on YouTube due to "copyright claim" by Parelli. Very convenient !!

Well, my only comment is one of Monty's - "Adrenaline Up, Learning Down; Adrenaline Down, Learning Up". I have never seen Monty's adrenaline up, either live or in any video.

I haven't been able to see the you tube video, but I have seen Linda's technique's when working with a horse, and my conclusion is, I think everyone has a different way of training a horse, but I prefer Monty's techniques the nest over anyone else's since he gives the horse more freedom of choice.

I am not going to comment on the video as I don't feel qualifed to pass an opinion either way.

I am a member of both Monty and Parelli and I (like others) take from each one what makes sense or works for us.

No system is perfect and its still early days as far as Natural horsemanship is concerned and working out how to teach us what is decades of experience from them cannot be easy. I am just grateful they are trying and raising awareness about handling horses and both are helping us make the world a better place for them.

Ive seen the video and agree, that horse had no idea what the heck he was supposed to do. He just escalted into hysteria. There is another video of Linda out there riding a dressage horse with an excellent trainer, it was horrible she couldn't ride one side of the horse. The look on the horses face says it all. Not a Parelli fan, don't need to play with big bouncing balls.
On another note, I've been starting horses under saddle for 20 years. Have my own system which works very well. Bit more traditional than Montys way, as in I do alot more ground work. Two years ago after following Montys work I decided to start three of my own babies his way. Just for kicks really to see if it worked. Well it went nearly text book. In four days all were riding full school around my indoor like stars. Only went back to my way once since then. That horse a TB. was just really high energy and his answer to every noise or distraction was a bucking fit. I recoginized very quikly that he was the type that would use that against you. God forbid he ever bucked me off because he would have played that game forever. So he long lined till he got his brain about him. Intresting note, he got very educated on the lines and as soon as the work got a bit challenging for him he settled right down and boom we were riding. He'll never be the horse for anyone but he is a very sucessfully eventing now and loves it.I think Monty would agree with me, that horse just needed more time. As soon as he got fit enough to ask more demanding dressage work on the long lines his brain just switched on. Love Montys ways and so do my horses !!

Although the video is no longer available, I am a member of Parelli"s online learning site and have been to two events. I have watched all 4 levels of the learning DVD's and have never thought that they were doing anything abusive. However, there are things that I have seen at their live events that I thought were ineffective, confusing, harsh, and old-school. Perhaps this is what was observed in that video clip. The wild-horse taming event that just happened in Reno last month was ridiculous! They were using roping methods that are so old-school and harsh. They had very little success getting the horses to be able to allow a single human approach at the end of an 8 hour day! All I could think to myself is, "wow, they know nothing about the language of Equus!" Needless to say, I haven't logged into the Parelli sight since. He does not know near as much as Monty. Also, If we truly listen to Monty, he will actually guide you to develop your own training style following the principles of the language of the horse! It's not so Monkey see Monkey do like other training gurus!

Well guys I was a member of the Parelli University and I learnt a lot.
There were things I just didn't agree with. The continuous connection with a rope, no feedom of choice for the horse.
Linda is the first one to admit that she will never be the horseperson that her husband is.
I saw the taming of an Arabian by Pat and there was no harshness at all.
He took that young mare and put his hands around her and loved her, he was so patient.
Also, Monty, in his book says that he admires Pat very much, along with other great horsemen.
Monty's ways are great and very successful or I wouldn't be here on this forum. It was and is exactly what I have been looking for a long time.
I take a lot longer than Monty does to saddle my horse simply because she is young and I want her to be a safe ride for anyone, no shortcts for me, I'm too old.
Also, I'm sure that the tape was edited, I have seen Linda with other horses and she is kind and very knowledgeable, so take it for what it's worth.
Degrading one for another is not what Monty would want, it's what is best for the horse and he is helping us with that, right !!!!

Wow! This one certainly brought us all out to join in the discussion which is fantastic to see. Great to have all those new contributors to Forum sharing views! I haven't seen either of the two videos being discussed here but will try to do so. Like some others I did attend a few Pat Parelli demonstrations and am fairly familiar with his techniques. I have used his rope halter but not the big clip which clunks on the horses chin - didn't like that idea. I have also used his wand which I value for early training. However I didn't find myself drawn to Pat Parelli's training methods as I have to Monty's. Now when watching others using Parelli methods I do question them more as the horses appear less responsive. If the first video was clipped then I agree with many others here that we should be wary of reaching conclusions from it. Pat Parelli and Monty are undoubtedly both great horsemen with much they can teach us but which one we favour more will depend on us as individuals. I guess on this Forum we are mostly Monty converts so it is easy for us to be critical of alternative methods. My comment here is to respond to the idea that because horses are rough with each other in the herd then it follows that we should be rough with them. As far as I am concerned this just doesn't make any sense at all unless we wish our horses to try to fight back. The most submissive horse in the herd does not fight but just moves away when confronted. My Pie was treated as cruelly as any horse could be treated and her response was to fight back and try to kill any aggressive looking human. The trainer could not break Pie's spirit as is often the case when these cruel methods are successful. If I am at all rough with Tricka(Pie's foal) then she too will put her ears back and say "If you wont to fight then I am ready". One instructor at Adult Riders once took Tricka off me for a demonstration and started treating her roughly. Tricka quickly responded with ears back etc. It took me some time to get her over this. She still puts her ears back at that instructor if she sees her at Adult Riders. If I used Pat Parelli methods on Tricka she would fight back and then the whole learning session would be much harder and take much longer. Monty's methods and the dually halter have really worked on Tricka and she is now a very placid beautiful horse. That is proof enough for me.

NB When referring to Pie's cruel re-training above I am referring to the aggressive, cruel, traditional methods of training and NOT Pat Parelli methods which I do not regard as cruel. They are just somewhat less effective than Monty's in my view.

Greetings All
As usual the Parelli's have had all the clips showing the abuse removed from YouTube. This is not the first time that the Parelli's have lost their cool and became overly aggressing with a horse. Last year Pat Parelli was so aggressive with a show horse by the name of Catwalk that half the audiance left the event. This was in England and the Brits do not take kindly to people that abuse horse.

Everyone is capable of loosing their tempers and loosing sight of what they want to accomplish with their horse. I have been guilty of it and I would think that if you are honest with yourself you too have lost your temper and became frustrated with your horse. That being said, There is NO EXCUSE for mistreating an animal and more to the point Parelli's are not honest enough to admit they were wrong and appolgize for their behavior. Instead they get the owners of the horse that was mistreated to say what a great job the Parelli's did and everyone else misunderstood what was happening. They are such bold faced liars they should be in Politics!

You will never see trainers like Chris Cox or Clinton Anderson doing things like the Prelli's have been guilty of and we all know that Monty's training to to prevent any type of abuse to both animals and humans. If you can't walk the walk then you shouldn't talk the talk. Parelli's need to find a new occupation

Dennis

Tried to check out these videos but both are now removed from youtube for copyright reasons.

Wow Dennis,
I guess I never saw any of this. It's too bad my bubble has been broken.
I have seen the video's and that was why ( the whole thing) I defended them.
I know Monty says in his book he admires Pat.
I just don't know how to respond to all of this, having not seen these type of actions from either one of them leaves me speechless.

My Star
I don't have a problem with the fact that the Parelli's have made mistakes in their work. The problem for me is that they try to justify it by saying that the views are mistaken and did not understand what was going on. I think one of the greatest dangers for a trainer that demonstrates their techniques in public on horses that they have never met is that if it starts to go wrong or the horse does not respond a certain way they think it makes them look bad and people will think that they are phonies. To me it is just the opposite. I would rather see them admit that the horse is not going to do what they ask at that point in time and that it will take more than 15 or 20 minutes to train them correctly

Cheers

You've got that right!!! With spades.
My daughter and I both say if anyone says they can "TRAIN" a horse, even in one day is full of balony.
Just to give you an idea, last summer I had MY Star all ready accepting the saddle readily but my husband refused for me to be her first rider so I hired a women who called herself a natural horsewoman and claimed she could ride anything with four feet.
She came highly recommended and cost the sky but I thought I'd give her a try.
She came and did such crazy things to the horse including scaring the poor thing to death.
That didn't last long. I told her to get out of the corral, now. Poor Star was covered in sweat, running in circles and in a total panic, with the saddle hanging around her legs.
When I went in the middle of the corral and started to use hand signals with her she calmed down enough for me to approach her and relize it was me and I put a lead rope on her and lead her to her stall, cooled her down and bedded her for the night.
Meanwhile the girl was looking a bit afraid, I was breathing fire, I'll tell you.
She said the horse was crazy and should be shot. I'm thinking you're the one that should be shot. She too was to proud to admit she couldn't handle STAR and badly damaged my horse.
The next morning I went out to see STAR and her poor little head was almost to the ground, she was so downhearted, I took her out and started to play with her and in no time she was running around like crazy BUT to this day she is frightened of her saddle.
My husband and I are just getting her to accept it again.
So yea it takes a long time to gain a horse's trust that has been used badly.
One thing I will give Pat Parelli on his uni. courses he constantly says you have to do a lot of ground work, sometimes years before you have a safe horse, so take the time.
As you said before we all make mistakes the key is admitting it.
Pride can be the downfall of any human.

Poor My Star! I completely sympathise here. It continues to amaze me how much damage so called "trained experts" can do to a horse in a very short time. It takes some time for horses and humans to get to know and trust each other. I took Tricka to a couple of one day clinics with experts but these just totally confused her. I guess we all learn to be less trusting of "experts" if they do not know our horse's history. Perhaps a younger person who is a good rider and knows horses but who will listen to you would be the best for My Star when she is trusting enough to be ridden. "Experts" just want to take over and this is where the damage is done. A younger person rode Tricka for me once at adult riders during cross country jumping. I didn't feel competent about jumping the higher level of cross country jumps so this girl offered to have a go and the instructor agreed. First time anyone but me had been on Tricka and she was very dubious about it but did not play up at all. The young girl rode her around for a bit and then agreed to get off and not jump her. That was a really good experience for Tricka and sensible of the rider to understand where she had been and not wish to push her too much.

Just watched the series "Join up with children" for the first time. In Part 9 Monty points out that the horse Emma is riding is only 3 years old. He is a beautifully placid, well behaved horse for a young rider. Monty says that is because he has never been whipped or treated harshly so he has never learnt to "fight back". This seems very relevant here.

Maggie
Those are Monty's Willing Partners horses. It is amazing how he take horses and is able to select the horses that will be the best trainable and calm horse. I think a lot of riding schools just luck out to have a good schooling horse. I had a quarter horse mare that her pervious owner would tap on her head so she would tuck her head. Since that was not the way the horse was comfortable I did not do this and with in a year she was no longer head shy but if you mistreated her she would buck you off. I was never bucked off but a couple of my cowboy friends thought they know how to ride her. They ended up in the dirt! I was so confident that she knew how to read people that I let my 6 year old nephew ride her. He had never been on a horse before and she gave him a marvelous ride. He could pull on her reins, bump her in the ribs turn around in the saddle and the horse would just maintain a nice steady walk. I think horses can read people a lot better that people read horses.

Cheers

Hi My Star, Ronda,

That's excactly where things can go wrong.

You are the one who is hiring somebody with experiences!!!! and see what happens......

Can you remember what I wrote on your question; fears for the farrier?
I put here a little part; "I can say I have a few month of experiences with horses and I realy don't mind that somebody else have a lot of experiences. Do you know why? Because I always will think how many years of experiences does that person have with him/herself?! Is there a balance in experiences and that person? If there is I can follow and learn!!!

I have many years of experiences with myself and with that I can do my best to learn more of all the things what I am doing in life.
Horses are the most sensitive animals I ever met and it is also healing. Through them I learn more from myself and the other way around as well."

So you will learn from this as well Ronda and it is hurting when you see a highly recommended person is treating your My Star so badly.
People can do more harm to annimals then they relise.
And what you build up with MY Star in month she will break it down in a few minutes!!!!
That "expert" had no imagination oneself in another situation.
I think that a lot of people (I don't say that all people/experts are the same!!!!) THINK they have a lot of experiences and it will tickles there vanity. Most of the time these people are insecure about themself, but can cover this with "THEIR EXPERIENCES ". They put themeself on a very high level and put themeself also higher, in this case, then the horse, like they are standing on voluminous mountingblock higher then the horse is, if you understand what I mean.
Persons and horses with a sensitive feeling can feel that immediatly. I am glad you have that to and that it was for a short time that girl "worked" with My Star.

I can't help it but I look through those people and they feel that and feel threatened.

That's why I like to watch the lessons and see Monty working with the horses.
I can feel his positive energy and the kindness.
He is not a man who suffer from a swelled head (hope I translate this well). You can see and hear how he is reacting on horses and also the people who help him in the lessons.

What you did was absolutly right, you could see and feel the whole situation and told her to leave. Well done Ronda!!!! I can understand that smoke came out of your ears and there was a big dark cloud above your head.
I think, the next time WHEN you hire somebody with experiences, you will go and see first what that person is doing with horses before even she/he may touch MY STAR.

Give My Star a big hug from me will you.....???
A big hug from Holland....
Cheers, May

Hi everyone.
Just wanted to let you know I won't be on the forum any longer.
So I'll say good bye and hope for the best for each and everyone of you.
Best wishes to you all,
Ronda Bergeron

I am sad you are leaving us Ronda. Our thoughts are with you and all the very best for you and My Star. I value your sentiments May and yes, Dennis, I agree. My return to horses was 25 years agao when I purchased a 15.3 hands high horse for my youngest daughter to learn to ride on. We had looked at many ponies but this fellow was so gentle and sweet with my daughter and I figured that we could share him. Interestingly when I got on him he picked himself up and was a very different horse - he even bucked with my husband. We had him for many years and he helped many young people learn to ride. He was always so gentle and careful when he had a child on his back - quite amazing especially given some of them were quite rough.

Ronda
it has been a pleasure to have interacted with you about horses. I, like Maggie, wish you the very best,. If you wish to continue corresponding you can email me at my website www.peruvianstallion.com

Cheers!

Hi Ronda,

Oh help, what are we going to do without you?

It was a plessure to read all your comments and suggestions.
Yesterday, I though about it to ask you if we could have e-mail contact, because I have the feeling that we can say more to each other and/or just for a chat. So Ronda I FELT THIS!!!!

I will miss you on this forum!!!
I wish you all the best and maybe we will be in contact soon.

I wish you a lot of the strengh for everything what is coming on your path.
You are a strong woman and the best friend for MY STAR.
Did you give him my Dutch hug?

Kind regards, May.

Hi Ronda
.
Like the others, I am sad to see you go. Good luck with My Star and I hope all is well.
.
Kind regards,
.
Gen

I am so sorry to see you go, Ronda! You will definitely be missed. I wish you and My Star all the best.

Dear Ronda

I would like to have people like you in the forum with another background and hear your critics of Monty's method. The different training methods can not be perfect. As mentioned already above we should try to find common ideas and discuss differences.

Rudi

Well Rudi,
It's like this, I do not have any critics of Monty's methods.
He's a great horseman and has great ideas that have been proven over the decades, all of them, in my humble opinion.
He admires all great horsemen and women. People will always disagree, no matter what.
My reason for leaving the forum is because I do not like gossip, nor do I want to be part of it, and it is gossip if one has not seen something firsthand, (the whole picture).
I have more important things to think about.
I am still a member of the UNI but I see no sence in partisipating in discussions that are degrading to anyone.
All GOOD horsepersons do the best they can and their methods have proven themselves.
They do not need nor want amatures telling them what is best for a horse, they know.
There is a saying the proof is in the pudding !!!
And I agree with you, one should find commonality not pick at differences.
End of discussion as far as I'm concerned.
If in the future I see a point that I think I can HELP with I will, but I won't argue.
Ronda

Hi Ronda,

Pffftttt.....(hope it is not a bad word in English)... I am glad you are back!!!!
I can understand your point and agree on that.
Hope you find enough questions to answer/react on.
It always helped me and made me brave enough (as a beginner) to ask questions.

Hope hearing from you soon,
May

Ronda
I have always respected you comments and you have given some very good insight into horses. I want to say that my comments on Linda Parelli's behavior is not about that fact that she my have lost her temper or the horse was too much for her to handle at that moment. I have watched a number of presentations by the Parelli's and I believe that both of them have the best interest in mind for their horses. My only objection of both of them is that they are not honest in dealing with these types of issues. I guess when the money is that large in your life that you defend yourself even if it is not in your best interest.

I am glad that you are staying in the forum. I my disagree with some points of view, but I will alway try to respect that person and what they bring to the table.

Horses are too much fun and bring so much to peoples lives. If only people had as much patience and forgiveness in their lives. I have a plaque on my wall that says
"Horse Sense is what a horse has that keeps him from betting on people"
I know that my horse is a lot smarter than I am in dealing with challenges.

Cheers

Thanks Dennis,
For being so honest, I admire that in people.
My only objection is the continuous talk or the bringing it up in the first place.
Can we as individuals say, as you so nicely said it once, not lost our tempers, we are all guilty of that I think.
I did not know that they were dishonest I had not experienced that and have only seen love shown to the horses.
As I said it is not gossip if one has seen something first hand and you have therefore I will tell you my experience with a Parelli trainer.
At the beginning of May of this year I was invited to a clinic with a Parelli trainer.
During the three days he was alright, I guess, (he was level 4).
On the third day he wanted to get a saddle (Parelli) on a warmblood, she was huge and beautiful and the owner could get her to do anything, perfect figure 8's the whole bit.
This 'trainer' started to slap the horse in zone 4,(whithers to croupe) with both sides of his hands, hard.
I asked why are you doing this and he said," I am getting her ready for the saddle."
This horse was mature and had taken the saddle many times and was a gentle giant. By the time he was finished she was in hysterics and showing the whites of her eyes.
I was so upset I had to leave or I was going to make a fool of myself and go in the arena and start slapping him.
It reminded me of sacking a horse out, unnessary and cruel.
I wrote the Parelli's and they were very upset and spoke with this trainer and told him I had it on video.
They apoligized to me and asked if there was anything they could do to help me, I said perhaps make sure he does not sully the Parelli name again.
That's my experience with Parelli training and why I stopped the University.
Please, NO ONE comment on this. It is a fact that happened to me and I just don't want to ever talk about it again.
Thank you for respecting my wishes,
Ronda
I still believe Pat to be a great horseman and admire him but their type of training is not for my head shy baby.
Ronda