Royalcamelot

Horses bite at each other sometimes to be playful but serious  biting is a show of dominance. Period!! Watch your horses in the pasture. The dominant horse will bite at the others to move them or get them to do something he wants. He's trying to groom you instead of you grooming him. Stay the coarse and do as Monty suggest. You may also want to get you a clicker and use it when he moves his head in your direction. You want to get him doing something by getting his mind off biting. I also suggest using a Dually halter and school him when turns towards you to teach him to look away. If he's an older horse as you explained he has probably done this for a long time. Be patient with him and try to respond as quick as you can with any schooling.. As in seconds!! If you wait longer than a few seconds any schooling you do is wasted time.
Monty has several videos on the Dually and how to properly use it. It is the best tool I own when it comes to handling horses. I believe that Monty would say. You want him to Want to be good for you. I am not an instructor but I am a person that has owned and worked with horses for most of my life. I hope you get to the root of his problem soon and you find a way to solve it.

Hi!  Wow!  Thanks so much for the response.  This is very helpful.  We live in Thailand so we are currently waiting on our Dually halters to arrive and will follow Monty’s instructions. I will also look into a clicker as well.  

He has done this for a long time.  I will continue working with him.  Thanks for the encouragement!

Royalcamelot
You are so welcome.
 I want to applaud you and commend you for taking on this responsibility of caring for 5 horses. I own 5 myself and from my experience just one horse is a huge job. So I know how stressful it can be.
When you start working with the Dually halter be sure to watch Monty as he uses it. Pay close attention to how quickly he schools the horse with it and even closer attention to the way he quickly rewards the horse for doing it right. Also watch his body language as he works with any horse. I have watched every lesson he has, and I have never witnessed him change his adrenaline levels or raise his voice in any way during his demonstrations or lessons. He has a book called From My Hands To Yours,  that goes into great detail on how to solve almost any problem that may arise. It also has every type of body language that horses use daily and is very helpful for you to know and learn.
Again. I praise you for working with these wonderful animals, and hope you nothing but success on this new life you have taken on.
God Bless
Connie Mack

Hi. Well said Connie. Monty is never harsh or hard with the Dually halter. Often you can school effectively with nothing more than a light tug, more often you just need to close your fingers as the horse will draw away & cause the Dually to school them. I only have four to look after - 2 are brother & sister who have known me in every day of their lives to date (homebreds). The other 2 are the now gelded sire of the homebreds & a completely unrelated Welsh A. The family mostly hang out together whereas Max, more often than  not, chooses to be elsewhere in the field. Their inter reliance is most interesting as has been watching their very different characters develop. From My Hands To Yours is a 'must have' for any one dealing with horses. Cheers, Jo.

Perfect.  Thanks to you both.  I am going to study training with a Dually halter next.  

I have a random question.  I did Join Up yesterday for the first time in my round pen.  One horse was perfect.  Ran and then joined up and followed up.  One horse ran, did join up and then NO follow up (we will keep trying).  One horse stood there.  No matter WHAT I did (snappy a lead line, getting behind him, big hands, eyes on eyes, etc.) NOTHING.  He just looked at me and wandered around.  Have you ever had a horse having a problem moving?

To answer your question. Yes many many times. Tie a plastic bag tightly at first around the end of about a 4 foot stick. Then get behind the horse and gently shakes the stick causing the bag to make crackling sounds. Almost every horse will move then. If he doesn't then loosen the bag out so it will make more sound. Remember, you're just trying to get him to move and be careful not to scare him to much so hide the stick as soon as he moves.
The stick and bag can be helpful in many ways too. Monty has several videos with him using this method.
About your question on follow up after join up. I believe that is a matter of trust. I have noticed that if I wait a day or so to try join up and follow up again, I usually get the horse to follow up on day two. I wait a day or so  because I don't want the horse to get bored or try to do to much with him in one session. Also try to work him a little longer during join up, maybe 4 to 6 laps instead of 3 or 4. This gives him a little more time to see that when you do join with him he seems to trust you more. Then maybe he will follow.
Also remember  that Monty has a video on about every and any situation you can imagine with horses and the UNI is full of those great videos. Surf it and you will be amazed at the knowledge and commitment to properly handle horses that it contains.
Connie Mack

Hey Connie.  So, I have tried both the plastic bag method (makes lots of noise!) and snapping a feed bag (makes a nice snappy sound!) and my horse still just stood there.  I placed the stick with the plastic bags on his skin to see if he had any fear of it at all and nothing.  I was able to move it all over his body with zero concern.  So, definitely not afraid of sticks or plastic bags.  And definitely not afraid of the sound.  

I am going to surf for videos about this.  My join up sessions have remained the same.  One horse joins up and follows, one joins up and wanders away and one doesn’t join up.  I have tried running them longer and then allowing them to walk until I see all 4 signs.  On all THREE horses, I never get licking and chewing.  I get the other 3 signs.  Today I walked one for probably 10 minutes (after the running session) waiting for licking and chewing.  Nothing.  And then the minute I stop, licking and chewing.  Happened on two of the horses.  

I am at a loss.  I need to video myself and watch it.  Any other ideas?

Hi. OK, Join up is communication. If the horse wants zero to do with you then he just goes away & refuses to Join up or follow up. In that situation the human has to do far more work, break down the tasks into much smaller bits - as in dealing with a wild mustang not a domestic horse. I think what you might have here is a horse who is happy to begin becoming a partner with you, a second horse that wants more time & more effort on your part before committing to a partnership & a third horse who is saying NO, this is not what I want/need from you just now. The fact that he let you put scary things all over him & didn't react to the snap ( the whip-like sound of the feed sack ) indicates to me that he may have progressed beyond needing this level of trust building with you - your actions have already demonstrated to him that you are trustworthy. Don't get hooked up into thinking that a partnership is ONLY possible if the "rules" of Join up are performed. Remember, Monty emphasises that the four gestures do not necessarily come in the exact same order but the order isn't important to the end result. There is flexibility to Join up & a maximum number of times it should be done before the horse is simply bored with the " same old same old ". If the horse rejects your efforts at communicating & simply goes away then Join up is a much bigger, more complicated process. If the horse refuses to move & won't communicate with you, you can't force that. If the horse refuses to move but shows calm, relaxed acceptance then he's already in the zone to growing your partnership. Continue to work incrementally but be open to progressing quickly whilst very mindful to recognise when this horse is near to his comfort zone limit. When he shows you he has found an activity he is not totally comfortable with your obligation is to ALLOW LEARNING. Looking forward to hearing how you progress. Stay safe. Cheers, Jo.