A few weeks ago I got 2 lovely standardbreds, a 3yo and a 4yo. From the word go they followed me around. They were, and still are, a dream to catch and handle. It was like we had follow-up without having join-up!
I want their complete trust so I tried to join-up with them. I have joined up with a few horses before, older well-trained ones, and they were successful. I study Monty's material over and over but I just can't seem to get it right for these poor standies!
When I send them away, they take off well. However they start dropping their head and sometimes licking and chewing within the first half lap. Their inside ear is on and off me from the start but I never seem to have their undivided attention. I familiarised them with the round pen for about 3 days before trying join-up. After the appropriate flight distance I have the 4 gestures but they're inconsistent and very much in the wrong order! When I ask them to stop, the 4yo did take one step to me once after many invitations, but I have found that they only seem to come if I call their name and cluck, much the same way one would call a dog, and I have only ever got a very poor follow-up.
I have attempted join-up with the 4yo twice and the 3yo thrice. Some attempts had more energy (cantering and trotting) and some much less (trotting and walking). I don't want to do it any more with them in case I stuff it up even worse and they end up with the impression that I'm a predator!
Today I had a terrible "join-up" (if you'd call it that) with the 3yo. He was dropping his head on and off the whole time, and turning his head towards the outside. He cut his corner towards the gate and when I tried to push him out so as to prevent this, he just ran as fast as he could past me. I seemed to be able to control his speed across that section and not his positioning. I got the head dropping, licking & chewing and ear gestures but they were 'half-hearted' so I asked for a stop and went passive. To my amazement (and humour!) the cheeky bugger walked right past me and went to the gate! I got him away from it and I tried to hook him on to me for follow up but he actually stepped away from me. After that I just had a normal lesson with him and it wasn't until the end that he seemed to want to be near me again.
I have no idea of the background of these horses, how they have been raised or trained except that they were started as trotters. I'd really like to join-up with them to make future lessons more efficient and effective. Please, I need some advice! I need to improve myself for these wonderful boys, because they only deserve the best :)
One of the signs is the horse making the circle smaller. So he was responding positively to you.
I would suggest you watch the Videos with the horses with the Phobias and The Head Shy Issues. In these videos you catch some of Monty's Finer movements for those tricky horses.
The lessons on catching the horse in the pasture is also very revealing. It shows some common mistakes we make with out even thinking about it.
For Sure you will get it in no time.
I agree with Amberpony.
For me all seems very normal. You have still little experience and you can not expect that you will be as good as Monty in his films.
Sorry if I didn't make myself very clear. I didn't really get a smaller circle, only a cutting across to the gate. When he wasn't cutting across to the gate, he'd be stuck to the fence. At all times he had his head turned towards the outside.
I will definitely watch those videos you suggested with all my attention, thanks!
It may simply be that you simply aren't pushing your horse hard enough in the beginning to show them that you are in control of the situation. I don't know if this will help or not but I had a similar issue with my Warmblood. It was very difficult to even get her attention on me at all much less get her undivided attention. What I found was when I drove her away and kept her at a canter then she turned her attention toward me. I had to stay with her and push her hard to keep her going but it let her know that I was in control and she had to move at the pace I chose for her. In a way, it seemed that I had more control because I pushed her to canter and then allowed her to drop to a trot after several rounds. The process also took a little longer than what Monty shows in his videos because of this but it did cause her to put her attention on me. After two join up sessions it's now like I have a different horse. Before she had the attitude that she could care less that I even existed. Yesterday when I arrived at the barn she was turned out in the arena to get a little exercise before I got there. I entered at the far opposite end of the arena from her and spoke to her. Her head came up, ears locked on me, and she traveled the full length of the arena at a fast trot to get to me. I was overjoyed! Tt seemed like such an accomplishment that she wanted to be with me that much!
Eternal Student you can do! It is worth the work.
First Remember to Read Over The Extended Notes in the Lessons to understand the Movements in the Videos that are not explained.
Since my horse was an Adolescent Dominant Stallion when we did Join Up I had to Push Him Very Hard. Just as he showed all the signs He would Throw his head and Strike with his Front Feet. So I Threw the Lunge Line again and started all over. Until he quit challenging me.
The problem horse lessons show the Monty's Quick reactions and in the end the quiet reations. I learned so much by backing the video up over and over to watch for the small details in Monty's Movements.
Again the Pasture Catching Lessons have many Subtle things. Every time Monty goes out to give that Student a hint there is a little lesson to learn. All those little lessons Helped me gain the respect I needed from my guy during Join up. The Big Lesson there for me was to take off My Eye Glasses and Don't Hesitate.
It is a Beautiful Thing and More Rewarding to achieve Join up with a more Dominate Horse. Be Confident Memorize those actions that Monty Does with the horse that won't Join Up pay close attention to release and Pressure. Watch his shoulder and his eye. Watch which direction his body is facing. His Persistence. No Fear, No Anger just reactions and Positive Controlled Movements. There is a much to see in the lesson videos if you rewind over and over.
Thank you everyone for your help.
It turned out that they simply had separation anxiety.
When I would take one out of the paddock, they would whinny to each other but by the time I got to the round pen the whinnying had stopped so I was assuming that it was out of sight out of mind. It wasn't, however. They weren't paying attention to me because they were so desperate to get back to their mate.
I put the 3 yo on another property by himself for a week, and during that time the 5yo developed just as strong a bond with a mare on heat, so I continued having the same problem with him. However when I got the 3yo back we did a nice join-up so I am satisfied that separation anxiety was the issue.
I've never had any problem catching them in the paddock. I don't know what it is that I do but they always come up to me as soon as they see me.
I continue to learn,
-eternal student.
Thank you eternal student for sharing your experience. When I read that your youngster just walked by you straight to the door, I was saying to myself:"he is searching his buddy!" And than I read your last comment an was happy that I was right :-) I made the same experience with two big Friesen Geldings. This big guy just walked aroung ignoring me and screaming for his friend 50 meters away in the paddock. Great job to seperate them for a week! I admire your courage to buy two of this kind and age at a time.
Amberpony, you gave me courage to try harder with my colt who is a gelding since 5 days only... The last Join-Up has been hard work ! I'll let you know about our work, stay tuned. Good luck everybody ! VioBerlin
Isn't it amazing how the horse(if we watch and listen more closely) will always give us the answer if we are paying attention?
Great Job!
Well done! Great to read everyone's comments. I don't have a round yard but simply a home made menage which is fenced in but with space around the working area. When I tried join up with my young mare I had to send her out in a determined manner first and straight into a canter. I was delighted that she stayed in the menage area and responded to me. Her join up was fantastic and follow up was automatic. The join-up lesson has been so good for her as she was a little dominant before and showed some aggressive tendencies. Thank you everone and of course Monty. I find I need to watch the videos numerous times before I attempt the lessons with my horse. I purchased a dually halter a month ago and have had marvellous results with it too. It is been particularly useful for helping friends with horses reluctant to board a float.
Vio Berlin: I am Glad I could help.