Wow, that's a tough one! While I've never given a proper horse riding lesson, I have been teaching children for about 14 years, and can share some stuff I've learned.

What are this girl's parents like? Particularly the mother? If you can observe her interaction with her mother it can give you the biggest clue as to how this girl has learned to operate.
When she was kicking Merci, was it because you had asked the child to ask Merci to walk on? Some children grow up in an environment where failure must be avoided at all costs. Neither the learning process nor unsuccessful tries, no matter how good, will be praised, only successes of the highest order. The child soon learns that being a "winner" is the only currency of any value, and they assume that is so for everyone. To survive, and to get the praise they so desire, they quickly prioritise the action that they believe will get them the praise. So if you ask her to not hit or kick Merci yet she persists, perhaps she has prioritised "getting her to go" over obeying your new request. Or perhaps her mother had a stern word with her that she was not to let the horse be the boss of her. Was a parent watching the lesson? You might never know why she persists but what it sounds like you probably want to do it to create a different priority for her.

Ask her why she wants Merci to go. The answer, at 6 years old, will probably be "because you asked me to" (another possible response might be "because I have to be the boss", in which case you'll need a whole different tack lol). Apologise then, and say that you have not made yourself clear. Explain to her that what you want is not for her to get Merci to go, but to be able to communicate with Merci in a gentle and appropriate way. So if she does get Merci to go after kicking her then that doesn't count. She will have not done what you wanted because she used inappropriate communication. Tell her that even if Merci walks after violent aids, you will not be pleased. Conversely, if she only uses quiet aids you WILL be pleased, because that was the primary desire from you as the teacher, no matter Merci's lack of response!

Be sure to impress upon the child that any lack of or seemingly incorrect response from Merci is not a reflection of her ability, but rather it's because you haven't completely conveyed something to her yet. If a child feels that the burden of progress in learning rests solely upon the teacher (even if you may disagree lol), they are more likely to give new things a go and not get upset if they don't succeed on the first try. Some of my young students have got very upset when I have asked them a question and they couldn't produce an answer. If I can reason with them that it's not their fault- they can't know everything, and if they haven't grasped a concept yet it's because I haven't come across the right way of explaining it to them yet, they calm down and "allow" me to try again. Then they tell me when I have explained it correctly to them lol. (Of course, when people get older this idea must be used with caution otherwise they'll purposely not learn anything and blame the teacher lol).

So what do you do if you've got the girl using her aids appropriately and Merci doesn't respond and the girl becomes dismayed?
I recommend taking a few big steps back and not letting her ride for a while, other than being led around. Firstly see if she can communicate with Merci from the ground. Can she push her head slightly and get Merci to move her head off the pressure? Find something really simple that she'll surely accomplish and praise her ridiculously! Then get her to push Merci around in a way that you know Merci will easily respond. Like if it was my horse, I could get a kid to push on his chest, tug on his lead rope a little bit, say "back back" and I know he'd back up. Other things you can do that don't involve her riding Merci are theory combined with colouring in (kids love that lol), puzzles (name the part of the horse n put it in the right place), games (idk any sorry, Google would know a few) and have stickers for positive behaviour!

I really do hope that you can get her to a point where you're comfortable with her riding Merci :) When she does, she'll get confused because there are SO many things to think about! So I'll tell you one more anecdote then I'm done lol.

At pony club once I saw a girl I knew having a huge communication problem with her horse. She was 8 and a total beginner. Her and her pony were having a huge fight, so at lunch I asked her if I could give her a lesson. She said sure, I'll go get Smokey, and I said "you won't need Smokey" and she was like WHat??!! LOL.
We went under the shade of a big tree and I said "OK, I'm going to be you and you're going to be Smokey and I'm going to ride you." She thought that was pretty funny. I said "But I'm not really going to ride you, I'm going to walk alongside you, and instead of kicking you I'm just going to poke you. So poke means 'walk on', OK?"
"OK"
So I started poking her and (luckily for me) she took a few seconds to realise that she was supposed to be walking. I walked alongside her and kept poking her. She stopped and turned to me and said "Hey! I started walking!"
"Yeah I know"
"Well you're still poking me!" (I was even poking her continuously as we spoke haha)
"Well you're not moving now!"
"But I was before!"
"But you're not now! Walk on!"
And then suddenly it just dawned on her. Haha I still laugh thinking about it. She just looked at me and said "OH!". I said "Yes, that's the fight that you and Smokey always have, except that he can't speak English! Sometimes you give him aids still when you don't need to, because you've got so many things to think about, but he doesn't know that and that's why he gets cranky. Ok, lesson done!"
Haha best lesson ever. They went well after that :)

I hope that gives you some ideas! I'm quite passionate about quality teaching as you can probably tell lol. Please let us know how it goes, and I wish you the best of luck!

It is a wonder to me that violence is so instinctually ingrained in her. People usually say children are so innocent! Next time, I'm going to put her in a western saddle and give her split reins so she can't tug on both sides of Merci's face at once. I will try talking with her and asking her to be patient. I think she has the "quick fix" mentality - she wants results, now!
Anyway, thank you for your input! I'm going to watch the Join-Up for children videos.

Eternal - that was a truly inspiring post thank you. My first instinct was the welfare of the horse so get the kid off!!! lol But once that had settled I could absorb your information and it was really good - I love the story about Smokey, brilliant :-)

Nadine - I always find it fascinating that we are prepared to question our absolute morals when things get tough - I sympathise. When you didnt need the money, you would not tolerate anyone kicking Merci, now you see it as a dilemma. Please dont think I'm being unkind, I'm merely reflecting to us all that it is easy to take the moral high ground and preach things (i do it myself!!) when our backs are not up against the wall, but when our survival depends on it, its really hard to stick with our principles.

I suggest following eternals wonderful advice and putting Merci's welfare on an equal footing. Get the child off the horse for now (for Mercis sake) and start again. if the parents or child object, send them away - that sort of business you dont need. Good luck Nadine, keep us posted.

Sounds like a spoiled little brat to me. I wouldn't let that child near any of my horses. I'm no child psychologist, but this kid has issues, (starting with her parents?) and needs to be taught some respect and manners. I bet she hasn't got a hell of a lot of friends either. Keep this up and before very long at all your horse is going to start being very leery of "any" young person getting near it.

You've got some great advice from Eternal Student.
Speaking as a teacher and a mother, setting the boundaries of what any person (adult or child) is to do and not to do when: working with, around and on horses in different situations could perhaps be done in a friendly way before any person who you are teaching (said child included) gets on or near the horse/s.
It doesn't have to be long, just a short chat that ends with you asking the child questions related to your lesson, such as: " what do you do if you've asked the horse to walk and it doesn't?" Or what ever question is relevant to your planned lesson. Just so you can clarify their understanding. These questions can also be used through out the lesson as reminders and learning tools.
I wouldn't necessarily take her off the horse all together. Perhaps at her next lesson teach her some ground work such as grooming, picking out feet, how to move around horses safely, teach her to lead Merci correctly and maybe even plait Merci's tail! Make it fun :) Talk to her about how horses think and how we need to treat them. This can all be done a very friendly, fun way as you groom and care for the horse. End the lesson with a led riding session and (if you are able to) lead her on Merci to somewhere on your property/or the yard where Merci is kept, that is different (a special tree or pond or a walk down a pretty lane) Even show her and teach her how to do some of Kelly Mark's "apple stretches". mY kids love to do these lol! If lessons are fun and you establish good boundaries with her and are honest and firm (without being scary) I think she will come around. Good luck! :)
Remember it's incremental learning for children as much as it is for hoses :)

Just a gentle thought pmpleau, labeling and demonizing children is as in-effective as doing the same to horses. This little girls is only 6 years old after all and developmentally does not yet have the cognitive capacity to clearly distinguish right from wrong in the same way adults do.
She sounds a very "A Type" personality, one that wants everything yesterday and will walk over hot coals, so to speak, to get it and is possibly quite intelligent, so use this to your advantage, Nadine, as creatively as you can (just like Monty does with horses!)
We need to extend the same respect and understanding we show to horses to this child :)

lol Paul. It sure would start with her parents but she can be taught! Vicci you're exactly right, survival is an interesting thing, isn't it! I know what it's like to be so poor that you skip class (something I would never have done before) to go to a different campus to stuff yourself silly on their free barbecue because if you didn't go you wouldn't have eaten anything all day :/

It really sucks that you lost your job, Nadine, but you clearly have skills and facilities that other people find value in. You'll probably end up forging an envious new career! Whereabouts do you live? Are there a lot of riding schools that just offer the traditional riding lessons? Perhaps you could promote yourself as having a quality product and find yourself a specific type of loyal customer. In Australia just recently there has been a big anti-violence movement after a brawl at the footy. TV stations interviewed parents at their weekend clubs saying that they didn't want their kids' heroes to behave like that. You can capitalise on attitudes like that, promoting your violence-free system and link it back to how that benefits the child. Your primary concern is obviously Merci, but most parents, unfortunately, won't give a crap about her and will only care that their child is having fun or seems to be getting some benefit from the lessons. You can have your cake and eat it too if you can think of a really fun way to learn about horses from the ground & a really fun way to learn to want to be non-violent. Call it "human ground work" lol. I strongly suggest that you do lots of human ground work with her before putting her back on, but who knows, the different tack might do the job (can you go bitless???), I don't know. Obviously you know your circumstance best, but I'm trying to give you as much food for thought as I can here.

I read my post and realised that I didn't even mention the horse's welfare, yet that was the first thing that Vicci mentioned lol (of course!). I suppose I'm just so sure that you can come to a solution Nadine that I didn't think much of it! You definitely can stop this girl being violent, IF you can identify where it's coming from, and until you do, there's heaps you can do from the ground. Lol no, most children are not innocent haha. So does she seem to want to hit the horse to cause it pain? Do you think she's fully aware of the affect of her physical actions on Merci? Or does she just want to feel the rush of wind through her hair? It will help if you can watch carefully next time and discover her motivation. Or ask her. Sometimes they can tell you exactly why they do what they do (sometimes). The whole point is so that you can redirect her goals using games, rewards and praise. If you say she's impatient to go (maybe that's all her motivation is- wind through her hair), that's understandable, now you just have to change what she's impatient for! Does that make sense? To do that, you need to find out her highest currency (for the well adjusted child it might be stickers. For others, it might be praise or a "good" chart or some form of self esteem boost) and use that to get her to refocus her impatience and learn non-violence.
Oh, I thought of something else! Can you lunge Merci with someone on her? To make it rewarding for the girl and safe for Merci? Can you get Merci to walk on with the slightest of cues? Here's an idea: set the challenge for her to get Merci to go with her voice only. That's the rule! Have her on the lunge, and when the kid says "walk" or whatever, flick your eyes at her and your hand up or whatever you do, then be like "Oh yay! Very good! You're so clever!" etc. Get her to hold her arms out while you lunge at a walk, stand on the saddle, stand up in the stirrups, close her eyes, turn about on the saddle, etc. Can "she" stop her with "her" voice? (Again, you're doing the cues of course). Don't worry about the fact that she's not actually doing it, yeah? You can remove your cues later. You could do the same thing and instead make the 'game' so that she has to ask Merci to go using her voice and seat only. Then seat only. If she uses anything else she loses the game!

Well I hope something in there helps you out! Do keep us posted! :D

Great advice, Rahni (we posted at the same time)!
-make it fun!

I got a laugh out of your post Paul lol

I would never let anyone else (except maybe Monty) ride Merci with a bit! We've been using the Dually. I would really rather not lunge Merci, and I know it's dangerous to long-line with a live rider, so maybe a round pen? I am defenatly taking her reins away and asking her to work on her seat only. If she can get Merci to walk and stop in a round pen using only her voice and body, I'll let her go faster for a bit. That does seem to be her main goal - the adrenaline rush and the pleasure that comes with it. I doubt she really does understand or cares about the implications of trying to hurt Merci to get her way. She's a kid...If I recall correctly, that's what they do to each other!

Thank you for all your comments. I will try to more groundwork with her! I will let you know what happens in our second lesson.

I think if you try, you might be surprised how much compassion a child can have. However it helps if the adults in their lives show compassion to them also :)
Children learn more through example than by any other means. (im sure theres a reference that goes along with that.....)

There is nothing wrong with teaching/learning riding while using a long line on a horse. Its only dangerous if neither party knows what they are doing. It is a very quick and gentle way to teach a horse its cues. I use it regularly and its works great. It is not for children, but for experienced riders for the majority of individuals.
For emphasis, I wish to advise the naysayers that the Vienna School has been using this method for over 400 years, and obviously to great success.... : )

I think they meant double lines/longlining is not safe to have a rider on Paul, single is fine I agree, but not excessively for the horses sales but yes good for teaching.

horses sake that should say

Vicci,
Yes, you're right, I should have noted "single line". Thanks for the spanking.....lmao... : )

Hi Nadine - just checking back on forum after some time off. Your problem is an age old one and you sound to have already found your solution ie. dually only, close supervision and lots of ground work and discussion prior to riding. I have helped numerous young people to learn to ride but I guess I have been very lucky as all those I have voluntarily helped have been very well behaved, loved horses and were willing to listen and learn. Recently I have been helping two young ladies (16 and 18 years old) to learn about horses and riding. It seemed like a fun way to give my horses some extra attention and exercise. I devised a special program based on Monty's teaching and uni videos and asked that they join Monty's uni. prior to our commencement. It was lots of fun for me and my horses and the girls seemed to enjoy it too until my two suitable horses developed problems so our program is now on hold. I have enjoyed reading about your experience and everyone's advice to you. Just a word of warning re insurance etc. as this can be a real issue. I am not insured and was only helping the girls on a voluntary basis but even so I would only do it for people whom I know well and can trust.

What about insurance? I made them sign a liability release form. Would that cover it?

Hi Nadine - I have been told that a signed liability form carries no wait in courts in Australia if things do get complicated yet insurance is so expensive. Hence I am very careful in who I choose to help out and so far have had no problems. If this young girl is so gang ho she may well get into trouble so be mindful of this and do talk about it with her parents.

Will do. It is probably too expensive for me to buy insurance - but I will talk with her parents. Thank you. Next lesson tomorrow.

I am pleased to say the second lesson went quite well. I penned off a section of the arena so we could have a "round pen". Abbie rode in a western saddle, and I didn't give her reins. We worked on cues to go forward and cues to stop. After she successfully got Merci to walk and stop using her legs, body, and voice, I let her trot around for a bit. After a while, we went for a walk down the trail. Very buggy, but we had fun, and I explained to her why I train violence-free. Very good day. :)

So happy for all 3 of you!!

Thats great Nadine, congratulations :-)

Thats great Nadine, congratulations :-)

Hi Nadine - have you watched Monty's videos on Join up with Children and Join up with teens? Perhaps you could get your young pupil to watch these too.

That's a great idea Maggie! My almost 6yo loves watching those videos! Particularly on my iPad..... ;)

Really good reading through all the advice. I think if I ever have a child that starts to rough with the ponies, my first order of the day would get them off and ask them to apologise to the horse. May sound silly, but if there is something wrong in the way they're being brought up to use force, then it's a learning curve for them to be made to stop and think that they've possibly hurt someone or the horse. Perhaps a little explaining too about where their feet are sitting in relationship to their own bodies and asking how would they feel if someone was kicking them hard in the ribs.
I saw insurance in there somewhere too, I know for our ponies it comes into categories for insurance, there's the general liability and horse illness/accident, then breaking in, they call it, hacking, schooling. That's per horse in a general setting and not a regular school situation. It's around £40 a month per horse.
I've been advised by our local authority that as long as it's infrequent rides and not in a official school setting, then no license is required, but insurance is. If it becomes an official riding school then I have to apply for a permit not just for the bit of land we rent, but for the whole of the whole farm where we could possibly ride. Once it gets to a proper riding school, then we have to take out additional liability on the horses and schooling area ( you never know who might trip on a broom :D ) Hope it helps!! x

eternal_studentNSW, I just wanted to say thanks for the story of your lesson with the 8-year old! I've re-told that story a number of times already to people a lot older than 8. Just love it!
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Mel, I had a riding school teacher once - many years ago now - who used to say at the end of the lesson as the group were all "parked" down the center line before dismounting: "OK, now pat your horse and apologize!" :D :D :D

Years ago, I decided to teach my 4 year old son to ride. I had a goofy gelding the same age, and a very gentle little jack, also the same age, who had never been ridden but was extremely gentle. I didn't trust my horse with him, so taught him with the donkey, worked out very well, Jackie never did buck. Then my 7 year old nephew wanted to learn, so decided to try to teach him too. This kid wouldn't mind a thing, was violent, loud, etc, and I thought just maybe my horse might teach him something. First off, I told him NEVER to yell, wave his arms, and do EXACTLY what I told him. It worked quite well for several days-until his mother decided to watch. So, of course, he HAD to show me he could do what he pleased, he waved his arms, yelled, and hit the dirt. The corral was soft dirt and he wasn't hurt a bit, but my sister started to run to him and I told her to stay put. I went to him, picked him up, asked him NOW do you see why I told you not to do that? He nodded, I told him to get back on and this time behave himself. Never again did he act up around the horses. Years later, one of my mustangs ran away with him, and he was laughing his head off, said it was the most fun he ever had. But he learned to shut the gate!

Kicki, that's awesome! Love your story, phantom!