Hi,
In many topics I read posts talking about abused and rescue horses. I personally have never seen abuse of horse as one can see in the videos in youtube. It is like a horror movie. But the terrifying aspect is that such a big crowd of people tolerate it and even pay to watch it, and that institutions such as the FEI is setting the standards for these abuses.
How will ever change something, if standards in competitions don't change.
I am mow 47 and startet to ride when I was 4. In the stables where I learnt was a very high level of dressage (the owner once was the trainer of the national team of Mexico in dressage). But I never remember to have seen hyperflexion or “ low deep and round”, as they call it now. It seems that the world for the horses in competition has become worse. “20/30 years ago there was NO (sorry I forgot this little word in the post) internet, no youtube. Maybe these terrible things existed, but for most of the people they were invisible. I don't know.
I would like to know, if the foundation of Monty Roberts has the possibility to take influence on the decisions of organizations as FEI ecc.

Some examples of abuse:

FEI World Reining Finals
Craig Schmersal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en_90D5TOKA

Patrik Kittel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hIXGiV4N4k

Tenesse walking horse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkyC1Fq6Msg&feature=relmfu

Horse Tripping
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v7djtzbckE&feature=relmfu

effect of the bit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkxOp_xfVEg&feature=related

See the difference in the expression of the face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PIePtrcpqo&feature=related

Cristina
Unfortunately money is the biggest influence in the abuse of animals. I started riding about 30 years ago and had a quarter horse mare that I purchased. She had been tapped between the ears incessently so she would keep her head down during competitions. Needless to say she was very head shy. I took me two year before I could ride her and touch her head. I just left her alone and rode her as a horse that was out for a stroll. Letting a horse be a horse does wonders.
The AQHA and the Tennessee Walkers are some of the worst offender and are ruining both breeds. When I see a quarter horse performing with it's head below it's shoulders and acting as if were half dead I just want to pull the rider off and take their horse away from them.

Monty has trained world class reining horses as well as race horses without misusing their good nature. We can only do the best we can for our horses and hope it rubs off on others. Craig Schmersal is a multi millionaire so he thinks he has to make his horse "look good" as well as perform well. His rides look really ugly and people like him and the judges that encourage this "look" are doing so much damage to the breed. Ranch horses seem to be the only true quarter horses around because they have to be able to work cattle and sheep not play cowboy in an indoor arena!

Cheers

LDR is (as far as I know) a recent method of training that was developed by a very competent (World Championship/Olympic) and famous Dutch dressage rider and her trainer.
Unfortunately, her success with the method inspired others, who didn't know how to work with it or simply weren't competent enough riders/trainers to handle it, to pick it up. (How it migrated to the Western riding, I have no idea. Or did it come from there?)
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Needless to say, the method (which in itself can - and has been - questioned) was misused, distorted and corrupted.
Either way it was (again as I understand it)*meant* as a tool for stretching and supple the horses neck and back during very short periods of warming up, never as a shape to strive for or use during work.
.
I can't say how successful it really is toward that end, nor do I have enough knowledge to say it is more hurtful for the horse than any other suppling exercise.
I am not in favor of it, and I think that in the wrong hands it is worse than misused running reins.
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As for FEI, they have a "Code of Conduct" which is the ground rules for the treatment of horses and the behavior of riders. It states there categorically that all abuse is strictly forbidden.
The LRD was up for a long and heated debate, but the opposers had a hard time proving actual damage to any horse, so in the end the majority vote was to allow a shape they choose to call "Low, round deep" for brief periods during warm up. (How this differs from the "hypeflexion" I'm sure I can't say...)
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BUT, regardless of how much they rule against it, FEI can only enforce this on showgrounds/competitions.
When it comes to the everyday training, the real influence from FEI is scant - esp. on those who don't care.
In those circumstances, I think the best influence we can make is to lead by example, discuss it by pointing out actual facts, and hope that as many of the leading riders/trainers will follow.

Hi my 8 year old was abused in a trail riding dude string. I purchased my paint gelding through the owner of the trail riding outfit as the broker. During the two years I was riding extreme high ridge mountain trails...he was using my horse with lots of inexperienced riders and very heavy riders going up steep terrain, etc. If I paid board he used my horse when financial times got tough he said that my horse could ride his board out. I didn't realize the extent of the abuse he was undergoing. The owner was a farrier and shoeing was included with my horse being on the string. Well when
N my gentle loving gelding threw me I kn ew something was wrong. I took a hard look and saw that he was underweight completely exhausted and had not been shied on his rears and had been used in harsh rocky terrain..his hind feet were worn down to nibs and bruised...thank god my dressage teacher took a look at him and I asked her to pull him away from the dude string. Now mind you these were all my riding buddies of two years and everyone of them faulted me for pulling my horse. They refused to believe anything was wrong with him and supported the owner of the dude string. Meanwhile me and my dressage trainer started the ling process of rehabilitation. Again times got financially tough and I wasn't able to continue boarding him with her. So I have now moved him home and am riding him and allowing him to just be a horse. I got him a little 2.5 year old Arabian cross gelding as a companion. They are happy as pie. I'm hoping join up will help me in the process.. I rode as a girl and it was always dream to own my own horse. This didn't happen for me until I was 45. I now believe that dude strings are rife with abuse for the poor horses that have to haul inexperienced riders day in and day out. I will never forgive myself for the abuse that my boy went through. And then to lose all my friends on top of it. I am so thankful I have a little half acre that I can bring them to. I'm hoping I can use join up principles without a roum
Nd pen and a lot of fancy set ups. So far so good. My gelding and I had a fabulous solo ride down by the river yesterday.

Kicki
Your point with regards to a training method being misused and distorted are well put. The comment that I would make is there may be rules and regulations against abuse of animals, but truth be told, if you are a worlds champion they are not going to enforce those rules unless the abuse is so blatant they have no other choice. Hyper-flextion has no real benefit to the horse other than cause discomfort and muscle strain. If you look at a horse that is over flexed think about where the horses windpipe is. It is being constricted.
My grandfather raised and showed champion Tennessee Walkers for years. He also abused the horses by making them over emphisize their leg motion by putting wooden balls around there ankles. This was common accepted practice in those days. The abuse of Tennessee Walkers is no so bad that they discqualified 3 or 4 finalist in the world championships for spring their horses. Soring is when they damage the ankle with acid, abrasives and other methods of the horses feet are so sore they lift them very high and quickly to get away from the pain. LDR is going in the same direction.
Horses have a natural what of traveling. Some horses raise their head up high while others breeds will have a low headset. My answer to this is for people to quit skewing with Mother Natures design.
End of my rant, sorry

Cheers

Oh I am reading about these poor show horses!! Burning with acids to get them to lift their feet up ..Shameful!I think it would be good to not have money incentives as this seems to be the root of so many bad and cruel practices.The racing industry also has a very harsh side.I do have faith in the next generations however.With Monty Roberts showing them the way I feel things WILL improve,in time.In Britain there is now a Monty Roberts fan running the British Horse Society(BHS)which is just an amazing step forwards!Hard core horsemanship will always be just around the corner as long as judges remain ignorant of what is acceptable behaviour.Good that youtube is there making public what there is out there,good and bad,and at least we can vote a thumbs up or a thumbs down, and comment.I am at present in Spain trying to get the law to act against an absolute cabron who's horses have no feed for days on end and no shelter or shade and often no water either ... why has he still got a licence to trade in horses ? I don't know ,I been after him for five years, he causes such misery.See my video The Shame of Orgiva/La Verguenza de Orgiva on the tube.Nice to be a part of this lovely website where good people abound!

I just saw the link to the horrific abuse in Reining show in Sweden.Unbelievable that it happens.Unbelievable and it just goes to show that so long as the JUDGES are IGNORANT,it will go on.I feel quite sick.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en_90D5TOKA Come on everyone!vote it down, but keep it polite!I know,it's hard ..

Several yearts ago, I wnt to the state fair and watched part of the barrel racing. Everything was fione, until one girl, probably around 12, came out on a horse that obviously knew what he was doing, but she didnt. She yanked that poor horse, jerked on the reins, whipped him, every time he tried to do his job, and finally left the ring in tears, without getting around one barrel. I was so mad I had to leave, if I had stayed, that girl would have been knocked silly. Nobody tried to stop the abuse or did anything but watch. I wonder if that horse ever raced again? I sure hope that girl never came close to another one, she had no business riding. And whoever let her needed their head examined.

Dennis,
I was watching a TCW competion and found out that some riders actually pour acid on the horses feet and fetlocks to get them to lift higher!!!!
Can you imagine, these poor animanls look like crickets crawling along sand.
I couldn't watch any longer.
The judges allowed this and prasied the riders for an excellent job!!!!!!
Yet at the same time, try pouring acid on a dog and see what happens, you will have the SPCA on you in a second and people in an uproar.
Disgusting.
Ronda

Ronda
That is one reason that the Tennessee Walkers are watches so carefully. They cheap like hell! It is bad enough when bad training takes place, but to me if you injure a horse deliberately just to win a competition, you need to go to jail and never be able to have a horse again, or any animal.
To me one of the most tolerated abuses is in the Quarter horse shows. The judges have forced exhibitors to train their horses so that they are super slow at the canter and have their noses in the dirt at the walk. The horse don't look anything like a Quarter horse.

When the Peruvian Paso first came to the US Peru was very worried that we would alter the breed and the horses features would be lost. Fortunately it has not happened yet, but our association has now put in classes for half blood Peruvian Paso, which only encourages people to cross breed, which is what the Peruvian's were afraid of. In Peru you can only cross to a donkey to produce a mule which cannot reproduce

Saddlebred horses, which are really beautiful horses, are known for their exciting presence in a show. The trick that they use is to put ginger under the tail , which causes the anus to burn, so they look real exciting when they enter the ring, but in truth the horse is just trying to get away from the pain.
To me where eve there is a lot of money invalid with horses you are going to find people cheating and in turn abusing the horse. Arab, Tennessee Walker, Saddlebred, Quarter Horses, Thoroughbreds.
To me the one hope that we have to stop the abuse is the exposure these abuses receive by way of the Internet. More abusers are being exposed on Youtube. Also we have great advocates for the fair treatment of horse by people like Monty and Kelly Marks. In the Quarter horse area more and more trainers are following the fair treatment method and winning by doing so.

Cheers

Dennis, you are so right about the breeds!!!!
When I was young the QH is the breed we used on the Franch I was on every year and they were huge!!!!
Today the body is the only thing huge about them. They have short legs and are expected to carry that huge body, no wonder they have problems.
Then there is the Arab, they have over bred them so much that there nose is so curved that they have trouble breathing, something like the Pug dog!!!
Why, is my question.
If it ain't broke why fix it. This breed has been around for eons, has survived the desert and need the jaba(I think that is how you spell it). They have been so intensely bred that it has disappeared. The fragile breed they have today would never survive the desert sand without this third nostril.
And they think it is inproving the breeds, humbug!!!
Be safe,
Ronda