Hello
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Congratulations on the work you have done so far as you have achieved a lot with this horse by the sound of it :-)
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When I was a child, I had a horse that used to spook and throw me all the time. Unfortunately most of the nurses at our local hospital knew me by name for a few years... Eventually I got to the stage where I was too scared to ride my mare called Dolly, so my uncle brought me a quieter horse to re-gain my confidence on. Fear is no fun at all, and I don't know how to overcome that. I can only offer encouragement :-) to keep going if you decide that's what you want to do - keeping in mind that your safety is the most important thing at the end of the day.
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My suggestions are as follows:

1. Do Join-up (maybe do it again if you have
done it before)
2. Explore the vulnerable areas and work with
scary objects like Monty Roberts does eg. plastic bag
on a stick, tarp on the ground etc. Stacey Westfal
also jumps around every now and then to acustom the
horse to sudden movement - that one's up to you :-)
3. Look at the horse's feed.
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Horses need a plain feed when they are not in hard work. For example, hay, lucerne/oaten chaff and bran (not pollard) with their vitamins and minerals added.
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If you are feeding your horse grain or pelleted feed of any kind I would stop ASAP. Or if the horse's diet is too high in protein from feeds like Copra Meal etc, I would cut that out too. Grain and protein provide energy and unused, stored up energy in the horse can lead to bad behaviour, spookiness and other health issues.
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I have also read that feeding horses dolomite (calcium and magnesium) is good for calming nerves. I have a quarter horse mare who was VERY spooky when she came to us. We did join-up with her and she has been getting her dolomite along with her other vitamins and minerals now for about 8 months. She is so much quieter and more relaxed now. A completely different horse.
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Good luck with everything, and I hope you get some great feedback that is helpful to you :-)
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Kind regards,
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Gen

Greetings
WoW! I can understand why you would be afraid to ride your horse. The only real question I have I why are you putting yourself through the danger with a horse that cannot be trusted? This is not a put down but a legitimate question. Sometimes people get blinders on their judgement (myself included) when it comes to their horse. It sounds like you really like this horse and have put in a lot of time with her but you are in danger every time you you ride her.
I agree with your husband and if you are going to keep her you need to start over again and do your Join up as many times as you can because your horse does not have confidence that your will keep her safe and therefor she spooks at little things.

If after a reasonable time if she still is a spooky horse I would look for another horse that you can trust. Monty has a number of lessons on desensitizing horses so they are confidant in themselves as well as you. Having your horse walk calmly across a large blue tarp is a good goal since that will demonstrate to you that you are able to get her to be calmer. Gen also suggested looking at her diet which I would also recommend. There are also a number of supplements that will help keeps her on a more even keel.

As fart as trail riding I would not take her out alone at anytime. It is like other sports such are skiing, you don't go alone even if you just tag along with other rider. We had a very seasoned rider on a very calm reliable trail horse get throw when the horse jumped over a small stream and she was not prepared. A rescue helicopter had to be called to get her to the hospital. She has a compound fracture of her tibia and was in deep shock. She was alone but fortunately for her the trail is well travels most days

Please stay safe and keep us informed of your progress. I am hoping that you will end up with a great horse.

Cheers

Sorry but my typing got ahead of me. Please read "As far as trail riding"

Thank you so much for giving me your comments. The statement "cowgirl up" is big here in Southern California where I live so I guess I was just trying to live up to that and bit the bullet and my fear and ride anyway. What a foolish thing to do on my part. My instincts (in Monty's voice) keep telling me my horse is too dangerous to ride right now, and I know in the back of my mind that even Monty wouldn't ride her under these circumstances. I taken my husband's advice and have been working with her from the ground with join up, longing and getting her to listen to me, and then I ride her in my arena. She does pretty well, but she has always had a "pissy" attitude from the very first day I bought her. I do agree I need to go back to the desensitizing I used to do and work on that a lot more and thank you for also bringing that up, and I will definitely incorporate more of that.

As far as her feed, the only thing I give her is alfalfa hay. I tried half alfalfa and half grass but she wouldn't eat the grass and was losing some weight so I went back to the alfalfa. She doesn't get any grain or pellets. One other thing I do believe is a contributing factor to her spookiness is my step-daughter's horse. His is a full Arab about 22 years old and we got him for free a year and a half ago because she wanted to go with me on rides. Being that she is a teenager and now just started college, she is not much interested in riding anymore and her horse doesn't get out that much anymore. He is way more nervous than my horse and if I take my horse out, he has to be put in the arena and cannot be left in his stall or he will freak out. We had them at a stable when I first met my husband and brought them to our place about a year ago and there are only the two of them so their "herd" is a lot smaller. The gelding did a lot better at the stable because there were so many other horses so when I took mine out, he was fine. I think he was always used to being around a bigger "herd" and now that he is not, he is really nervous. I've thought about inquiring about boarders to see if I can get a couple of friends who want to board their horse at our place so there will be more horses to keep ours company.

I will also look into some of those supplements discussed and see if those might work as well, on my horse as well as my step-daughter's. Thanks again for your suggestions!!

HI
I have one suggestion about feed. My horse is a Peruvian Paso stallion and is very mellow He gets lots of work and attention but he was gaining too much weight in the off season. I switched from alfalfa to oat hay and continued to feed Nutrena Safe Choice and he is now just right. You can switch by feeding half alfalfa and half oat hay as well. Alfalfa is too hot a feed for your horse. I only feed alfalfa during the show season which is stressful for the horse. Safe Choice was recommended by our vet for one of the mares and we now feed all the horses Safe Choice and since it has all the vitamins and minerals already in the feed I don't give him anything else as a supplement.
Trust your instincts about riding. Cowgirl Up just means to get tough and stick with it, which you are doing
Cheers

Hi Michelle you do sound as if you have huge challenges with both your horses! Maybe I am prejudiced but I don't think the Arab blood you have in your horses helps as in my experience Arabs tend to be more spooky and flighty than other horses. There is always a reason why someone gives away a "free" horse! Perhaps it is just as well that your daughter has given up riding! I admire your perseverence with your mare and as you have had her since she was a yearling I am wondering what her breaking was like and at what age it was done. Pehaps it is time to think about sending her out to suitable re-trainer who also follows Monty Robert's methods as this is what she is familiar with. It sounds as if you have made huge progress with her over the past five years at significant cost to you. No wonder you are scared - any of us would be under the circumstances. Like Dennis I would be beginning to question whether this is really the horse for you. Similarly with your daughter's Arab. I know it is hard to sell horses and I have a couple I can't ride but keep because I can't sell them on. However perhaps you could think about whether you should sell these two to more experienced riders and buy a quieter tried and tested horse for yourself which you can enjoy taking on trial rides etc. Riding is so much fun but it is not enjoyable at all if you are scared of the horse you are on. If you take this option then I would suggest you steer away from the Arab blood and look at other breeds. All breeds do have the problem horse but some breeds such as Arabs and Thoroughbreds (race horses) tend to have more spooky, flighty problems than others as this is what they are bred for. For some reason chestnuts across breeds seem to also fit into this category but again this may be just my prejudice and others may well refute this.

Totally adhere with Gen's advice if you are determined to keep this mare and continue to retrain her yourself. Shut the other horse away then lots of ground work making her do everything you can on the ground with scary objects to wave at her, for her to pass and tread over. You may even make her work with some chaff (about two small buckets) in a chaff bag tied at the centre to make a drumbell and then tied to her saddle at the centre. I used this with my young mare while breaking her in before l rode her and once she was used to carrying it I untied it from the saddle so that it fell off occasionally - each time it fell off she was asked stop immediately. This seemed to work with her - I have only fallen off her once (touch wood) but she stopped immediately for me. She had a very spooky mother (Pie - You may care to read Pie"s Story under "Horses that charge you in the field"). Your mare sounds a bit like Pie. I probably would have been injured badly or killed by Pie if she hadn't been permanently crippled.

Alfalfa is quite rich in protein so perhaps you should go back to feeding grass hay with it or some low energy supplement.

Good luck with it all - I am just really backing up Gen's and Dennis's very good advice and wishing you all the best. Perhaps you could borrow a nice quiet horse to ride while you re-train your mare to build your confidence in riding back so you can relax more. If you are scared your mare will sense this too and be more tense herself - sometimes I whistle or sing when I am scared to relax myself!

All the best with it and keep us informed of your progress.

hi michelle! I've fallen off a horse too, but luckily I didn't get too badly hurt. Best thing I can tell you is to review the lessons where Monty is working with spooky horses.

I just had to look up on the internet what Alfalfa Hay was. LOL. Its what we call here in Australia Lucerne Hay. And Dennis is quite right, it is a hot feed and very high in protiene.
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Just thought I would add this comment just in case I wasn't the only one wondering what Alfalfa Hay was.
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Good luck Michelle :-)
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Kind regards,
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Gen

Hi Michelle - just an add on to my previous comment. I have been thinking of you all afternoon while fixing fences. I guess 'cowgirl up' is a fair slogan for those inevitable, relatively harmless busters we all tend to take but not for the continual bad falls you have been taking off your horse. I am pleased that you have decided to take a step back, go back to basics and not ride out for awhile otherwise it could have been "cowgirl down"! Riding is dangerous enough without adding to the danger with a really scary horse unless of course we have a masochistic streak!

Yes, heed Dennis's advice and really cut down on the alfalfa (lucerne). Some horses really go hypo when fed this so that could be part of your problem. Clover hay or clover/rye is better and you could combine this with some low energy supplement from your grain store - they could advise you. If you do switch to oaten hay as Dennis suggests take care to ensure that there is very little oat grain in the hay otherwise it will be too rich too.

Good luck with it all and let us know how it goes.

I too had a fall of my horses about 2 years ago. I was not able to ride for 6 months witch killed me. Doing that time the horse I took a fall off of passed away she was 25years old she was half Arab. It was so hard for me to trust and really ride again. I have now a 6 year old did it all my self just like u she is very pushey as will I did a lot of ground work with her. And when I started riding again I just started at the walk. That all I did was walk then work my way up after I felt comfortable and we have just keep moving up when were both ready to. Now I would say I trust her she still get about of line some time but she was so much trust and me as will that when something scares her she come right over to me. I also have at 23 year old thoroughbred half he is a very laid back big boy and I think a lot of it is money see money do in my case. He not scared so whyshould I be he got right in the water I can to. Some maybe u can find a friend who has a horses like him and work on trails with her that way one it a lot funner to have some one to ride with two I since of safety if some bad happens and 3 she will learn from the other horses it work great for me having him around and my sister to ride him. But remember take it slow don't do more then u are ready for or u will be so scared the hole time. No one said that u have to go back to were u left off build ur and her trust back up from the start all over again. Make her know she can trust u 130%. And life for both of u will be a millionaires time ease. Hope it works out for u don't give up I have hope in my in her.

Hi Michelle,
You really opened us all up here with your story- You are very brave and I admire your thinking things through as you are doing. I fell one month ago; hospitalized with a concussion and have not been able to get back in the sadlle yet. Soon i hope, anyway Kelly Marks is one of Manty's first certified instructors, she wrote several books and one of them is called Complete Confidence with Horses. It si great because it offers many things you can do with yourself away from your horse to help overcome the "noise in your head". It is easy to read an do the exercises she offers I would be a nervous wreck without it. I have been doing ground work but no riding yet, I expect i will be nervous... I'll let you know.

Good Luck and one thing I remember Monty saying is that if you think your horse is dangerous than he/she is...
Yake care of your self, don't rush.

Thanks again for everyone's comments. The are all very helpfull. I am definitely going to look into changing the feed for both horses. I do agree with Maggie abou the Arab breed. I told myself I wouldn't own another one after my horse and then we got the gelding for my step-daughter and he is an Arab. He was great when I tried him out and rode him and when we brought him home to the stable I had my horse at, he did great there as well. It was only when we moved the two horses to our place that he began to be more and more nervous. We fed them both the same thing so I contributed the nervousness to change of environment and less horses. The place we got him from had 6 other horses that he was turned out with all day and the stable we had him at for the first year along with my horse had over 20 horses. Now, even though he can see the neighbor's horses, there is still just the two at our place. He is more relaxed when we turn him out and the neighbor's horses are turned out and they "talk" with each other over the fence.
I don't think I would be able to sell my mare, but am definitely going to look in to purchasing another gelding of another breed that is more relaxed so I can have my fun on the trail.
I will keep you all informed of my progress with my horses. It's so wonderful to have people to talk to about these issues and to get the feedback. Again, thank you so much!

Hi Michelle,
I was thinking of what you wrote and also the commends.
You did a lot of good work with your horse what I can understand and she is less frightend then before. What I am thinking is, you fell of your horse surveral times, because she was frightend, it made you more scared. And I can understand that, but...... did you think about it what happens with you, when your horse is reacting on something. It can be a split of a second that you react before he can react. What I mean is action is reaction, it is possible that your horse reacts more because of your action. What happens with you just before she scarres? I belief that horses are very sensitive and they can feel more than we can think of. So if your action is being afraid of what is coming, your horse will feel that and then also something scarry is coming on her path, so it makes it wors.
To do a lot of groundwork gives you a lot of confidence and that's what your horse will feel and see and then she can rely on you. What Monty says: be relaxed.
I think also that's the best thing you can do.If you are not relaxed, don't even start.
I came to this conclusion last week when I fell from my horse. I can't ride now so I have time to think. So I thought what happened, why did I fell of my horse, what action did I take and what reaction gave my horse.
I came to the conclusion that I made a very big mistake and my horse couldn't do anything about it, her reaction was to jump away from that silly lady who was bumping around on her back. After 2 days in hospital and 3 days not seeing my horse I had to go to her and I was glad to see her. She was alright and I was alright, relaxed, so I stroke her and talked to her. I can't realy walk now, I am on cruches, so i can't brush her now, but I am there.
I am not saying that I am right of my thought's here above, but maybe you can think about it and helps you to analise your behaviour. Hope you understand what I mean.
Sorry if I make some grammar mistakes.
Good luck, regards from Holland.

grootgendringen - Thanks for your comments. Some of my falls I have anticipated and some I have not. When I was on trail once I wanted her to trot and she acted nervous and I didn't know why but I didn't listen to her like I should and she bolted to the left when a bird flew out. My step-daughter saw it coming because she was behind me, but I did not and went flying. That one was my mistake. Another time we were walking through a trail and the brush over head kept getting more and more dense and the branches on my hat spooked her and she bolted to get away from the noise but the noise kept "chasing" her because I was still on her and she stopped when I fell off because the noise stopped (my head was no longer in the branches and my hat was no longer being scratched by them). However, there have been other times when I have been walking along and I have been taken by total surprise when she bolted to the left at something spooky to her and I have fallen. I have thought a lot about how I am sitting on her and if I am nervous and I often sing if I feel like I might be getting nervous and it calms be down and distracts my horse into paying attention to me instead of what might be out there that might spook her. I sometimes forget that a rock on the left looks completely different to my horse than when we are coming back and passing the same rock on the right and I need to be more in tune with the surroundings like my horse is. I am incorporating more groundwork before we ride and that helps a lot with our ride. I have ordered supplements to calm her and my other horse and will be getting some oat hay this week end to mix with the other hay. I will let you all know how that comes out!

grootgendringen - Also wanted to say that I'm so sorry to hear about your fall and hope you have a speedy recovery and can get back to riding soon!

Grootgendringen - I just wished to say how sorry I am to read of your bad fall too. I do hope that you mend OK and can soon brush your horse and do more with her. It must be pleasing to at least be able to hobble out and spend some time with her. Your comments to Michelle make sense as our horses certainly react to our fear. My Pie used to be terrified of cars and trucks coming towards her and although she didn't bolt or rear because of her severe re training she would shake all over and fly round in circles. This scared me and even now ( many years later) when I am riding another of my horses on a busy road I will tend to get scared when a large truck is coming towards us. This horse is really good with traffic but she even picks up on my nervousness and gets scared herself. I am not sure how you overcome this nervousness. I try singing and whistling and turning away from the traffic which helps. But yes Grootgendringen you are very right in pointing out how our horses react to us. It seems your horse reacts to you to Michelle but at other times is just reacting to something really scary in her past. Do hope you can find another quiet, reliable horse to ride out on while you work on your mare. It could be interesting to see how she reacts to some other experienced rider. Again I would suggest that you seek help from a suitable (Monty Roberts methods) re trainer as they may be able to sort out her problems as I can appreciate that you do not wish to sell her.
Take care. You have given us all something to think about!!

Hi Michelle and Maggie,

Thanks for your reactions. Also now (because I have a lot of time) i am thinking how you can overcome your nervousness.
That's something very difficult, because it went into your system, because of the experiences you had.
What I am doing now is thinking of positive things after the fall. Analise and try to find a way that this will not happen again. Be alert of what's coming on your and your horse's path and react on that then instead acting nervous. Look further then 2 meters infront of you and be the leader. Yes... it's easy to say.... but you can overcome this. It's the same as being afraid of spiders.... why are you afraid of spiders and are you afraid of all spiders? Is it because somebody was afraid of spiders and made you afraid of it or was it an unexpected experience.....
Like what you said Michelle a rock doesn't look the same when you pass it from the right or the left side... be prepaired and react on this and help yourself and your horse through this.....
Greetings from May, Holland

I did some ground work with my Cheyenne last night and we did join-up and I did some desensitizing by trees that hang over head. I walked into them with her and let them brush against her and my cowboy hat and she did really well. We walked across a metal ramp that my husband used to use loading his trucks, but we now use as a "bridge" for the horses to walk over and she did that real well also. I got her listening to me first for about 20 minutes and then I got on her and we road around the arena and she did real well and we finished on a good note. It was a real nice ride!

Michelle
Great! It is nice when you have a good training session and bot horse and rider leave on a good note. I am curious, do you ride wester or english? I have found that western or even a spanish saddle that fits both the horse and the rider helps you to stay in the saddle when things or South on you. You also must pay attention to the horse at all times and be prepared to stay in the middle of your saddle. Easier said than done I know but when your horse flies off the handle I know that she gives you signals before it happens even though the signal my be a millisecond before she takes off. Also I would not blame the breed or crossbreed for the spooky behavior. Arabian horses are a hot blooded bunch be with good training they are great trail horse as well as endurance horses. Some of my greatest rides on the trail have been on Arabians. Unbelievable strong but calm and willing.
I think you are on your way to having a great horse just remember balance calmness and determination and you will get there

Cheers

Hi Michelle,
Wauw, that's good news and probably gives you a very good and confindent feeling. I am realy glad to hear/read this.
I agree on what Dennis says about reaction from your horse.... so you will be very busy to see what Cheyenne is doing and what you are doing in a spilt of a second... but you can do it, I am sure. Action and reaction, and what I can understand is that you were determine to help yourself and Cheyenne to walk against does trees and let her hear the sound and the feeling of does trees. Hope I will hear more good stories from you.... it will give you hope, confidence, trust and a lot of fun for you and your Cheyenne.... Think about what your wishes are and set a goal and you will see it comes to you.... If you are positive your horse will feel that and shall react on that.
Good luck, regards, May.

Hi

I quite understand how you feel. My aim at the moment is just to get on and then off again. My confidence was hit hard when my old horse bucked me off twice at an endurance ride. Worst thing about it was I never thought he would do that. After this his napping got worst probadly because he know my confidence was gone and he could get away with it (he had no back problems as we had this checked out). When we moved to wales, great I thought we could start again and get back to what we had, but it never happened for us (wish I had known about monty's techniques back when the problems started, I think we would have been back to usual. I even walked him out and then could get on halfway and ride home, but all he had to was start misbehaving and I would get off.

Now he had sadly gone and I have a new horse (really lovely old fashioned cob. I got on him when we first had him, but he had a problem with always putting his head down to eat and being he has not withers, I had nothing in front of me. Now he is alot better with this and we purchased a horned saddle, great i thought, now I can start slowly again. But the saddle slipped when I tried to get on and I hit the deck. The saddle was not wide enough and we are back to the drawing board with a saddle. So I used my mum's barefoot saddle. My mum, a friend said they would help me. So I tried again and I just could not get on. I was in tears in the end.

So i am back to taking it slowly again, working from the ground and getting my confidence and partnership with him, much better. Then I will put my mounting block in the round pen and then just get on, sit there and then get off.

Hopefully this will work for me

Lv toria

Hi All, This thread I have read with great interest as I now lay here with a broken leg and a messy one at that thanks to my beloved but spooky horse. Unfortunately I wont be able to ride for approx 6 months which is going to kill me, but in the meantime I have come to the decision that I think it best and safest for me to sell my horse. Not that I am suggesting this to you Michelle as its a personal choice but this is the second bad fall in the last 6 months that I feel next time I may not be so lucky.

I can relate to you Michelle as I bought my horse very green - had never been out of a paddock environment, was broken in at 9 years (is now 11). So I had pretty much to start from the beginning - looking back it wasnt the smartest move i had made as I nursed myself through countless bruises and possibly a couple of broken toes, I soldiered on believing that my horse would eventually trust me and all would work out.
He has come along way and we have been going out most weekends either to ARC or trail riding but sadly the spooking has gotten worse and he will dart out from underneath me without warning. The only thing I can suggest to is never ride out of the arena without a stock saddle which will give you alot better staying power than an ordinary AP or Dressage saddle, also invest in a body protector and wear this religiously like I do when out on trails it does give me a little security (although didnt help with broken ankle lol), as my previous fall I thought I had broken my hip or pelvis and couldnt walk so luckily was found by passers by - I was riding alone which I will never do again. The last time was in the back paddock without my stock saddle which quite probably would have saved me from the pain I endured. My horse shied at a noise and he was in an open paddock so could see clearly all the way around him. I was left for dead as he bolted away to the other end and not a soul in sight to help. The other thing I will say is ALWAYS, ALWAYS carry a phone - I didnt and i paid a hefty price for it as I couldnt walk and had to drag myself 100 metres or more to the gate which took over 1/2 hour and alot of pain before thankfully someone came to my aide. Do whatever you can to stay safe and dont put yourself at risk.. I have had many of falls over the years and consider myself a reasonable rider but none of that matters when you are sailing through the air thinking this is going to hurt!... IF you are going to keep her I would suggest perhaps getting some professional training for this- If I wasnt angry and hurt so badly with my horse I would be going down that path before you have a nasty fall.. good luck. Deb

Hi Deb you have given us all such good advice. What a horrible experience you have had with this last fall. I think you are wise to sell this fellow and find a safer horse. For some reason it does always seem harder re-training a horse that has been broken so late - they are carrying so much baggage by the time you break them in. Good luck with finding another suitable horse once you have recovered from this horrific fall. I really admire all of you who have had such bad busters but are still keen to ride again. Good luck and good management to you all for happier, safer riding in the future.

Thanks for the good advice Dennis. I ride western because I like the saddle better than English or Dressage. The saddle I have fits pretty good. I do have to admit that I have balance issues and I am working on that as well. My chiropractor suggested some exercises to work on balance and I am incorporating those into my daily routine. So sorry to her about your fall Deb and yours as well Dolly. Falls can be really devastating and just rob the confidence right out of you. I have fallen off many horses and even had to jump off one once when I was 20 because we were coming to a cement overpass and I knew the horse was going to try and throw me so I just jumped for some bushes and only got a bucket of sand in my pants. Of course, I was a kid then and bounced right back up again. Falling when you are older is a different story and I've discovered it's harder to bounce back up. And I agree with Deb that when you are falling, you DO think of how it's going to hurt. I think that's the biggest fear I have is how much is it going to hurt and what's going to happen the next time I have a fall. However, I can't give up on my horse and if I have to get another horse for the trail and only ride Cheyenne while with another rider, I'll do that. I rescued her from an auction where there are a lot of buyers who take the horses to feed lots and then to a slaughter house. I couldn't bare to think that my horse could end up there some day. I agree with Dennis that there are signs the horse is giving but since we are not flight animals, we don't always "listen" or pay attention to every sound, snapped twig, bird flying, etc. like the horse does so things get overlooked. When I reflect back on the falls I have had like May is doing, I have remembered what my horse was doing and there was a sign there that I didn't pay attention to. Sometimes it's hard because we could walk past 100 old tires on the trial that that next one could be the very "monster" that might spook my horse and off I go, so I have been really working on paying attention to my surroundings while riding, even if we are passing the same thing we have passed 50 times and I'm paying attention to my horse and what she is doing and looking at. This weekend she was afraid of a plant that we have passed many times but for some reason, this time the plant was scarry.
I was able to get out of the arena this weekend with my step-daughter and we rode around our neighborhood and a friend came by on Saturday and we went over to a place around the corner from me that opens their property up on the weekend for obstacle course traing at a really low price. They are open every Wednesday evening and they have a trainer and they will work with you on desensitizing your horse and show you how to it so I'm going to do that. I'm excited about doing that! I have changed her food and naturally, she doesn't like it. I gave her half alfalfa and half oat hay and she ate most of the oat hay but left the larger stalks. I'm hoping she will get used to it and will continue to eat it. The calming supplements haven't come in the mail yet, but I'm hoping they will come soon. Good luck to you Deb in finding a good horse that you can feel confident riding. And good luck to all of us who have fallen and lost confidence that we will find the confidence once again! Michelle

Hi Michelle
Just a quick note - you might like to try reading some books by Sylvia Loch. She concentrates on creating a centered balanced seat which helps settle horses. Carrying an unbalanced rider is like you carrying an unbalanced back pack - it is uncomfortable and creates anxiety/lack of confidence in the horse. Its also easy to chuck off. I lost my nerve badly after a series of bad falls/bolts riding young horses and Sylvia's straight forward writing helped me hugely - this is in english tack though so I dont know how it translates to western saddles?? Best of luck

Thank you Angela. I'll look for that book!

Thanks Angela, I will look for that book too because what you say makes sense.
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See you later,
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Gen

Hi Michelle,

Falling off a horse can be one of the most fightening things that can happen to a horse lover. As you said if you are afraid your horse will pick up on it.

Something that wokrs to build your confidence is to just walk with your horse, leading her, with her dually halter for as long as it takes to build your confidence back.

Don't make it too boring or you both will get discouraged. Do some figer "8's", walk around trees, along the side a fence or building. Use your imagination.

Remember mares are moody and sometimes they may be PMSing, so learn her signals, does she wish to be ridden at that time, has she woken up on the wrong side of the stall that day.
School her back and forth using your dually halter until she is chewing and licking her lips, don't forget to rub her forehead. All of this has a calming effect and is a confidence builder for your horse.
She is throwing you because she is frightened and needs to feel secure with you, her partner.
Don't give up, walk her, school her and love her until you both feel comfortable for the saddle again. It may take a while but the END results will be worth it.
Ronda

Michelle,
I am currently nursing a very injured ankle from a fall 4 months ago. Looking back I see many things I did wrong to set myself up for the fall. Despite retrospect and Monty's fantastic training ideas, I decided to start working with a new trainer myself. What I have learned the most from each trainer/person I respect(Monty included), is when to ask for help. I started working with my new trainer with fresh ideas, a critical eye, and who believes in me. Ironically the best therapy for my ankle is riding a horse! My trainer has not only helped me to become a MUCH better rider, I have more confidence than before my fall. Money is an issue for my family, so I even work 1/2 my lessons while getting great hands on experience working at the barn.

Best wishes,
Jessy

Hi there Michelle.
I totally understand what's going on- I have had a pretty rocky ride with my horse too! I like you, have my suspicions that my horse was abused in the past and he was also extremely spooky when we got him, and after 3 months we were both nervous wrecks! However now I can ride him in the arena whenever I want, turn him out, go jumping, go to competitions and even ride out a little without fear. This is because of several things. Firstly, I took the pressure off both him and me. Of course I loved him but it wasn't worth his happiness or mine if I forced myself to continue to ride him when I was terrified of him running off. I came to realise that the decision to sell him was not momentous at all- he could go to another home, be schooled properly and have a much happier life. This stopped me worrying so much about 'having' to do things and every worry destroyed is another step towards confidence, right?
Next, I took the pressure off myself about it 'having' to go right- it was more important that I made life easier for myself than looking good or feeling brave, or as you put it 'cowgirling up'! Once that pressure was off I made a really sensible decision- I went out and bought the strongest calmer I could find! I've found, and I don't know if this is true world-wide, that there seems to be an attitude that if you give your horse a calmer you can't handle him and he's too much for you. THIS IS NOT TRUE! If your gut instinct is telling you to stick with the horse you should follow it. I found that calmers containing valerian were very effective as this herb releases almost all muscle tension and the horse doesn't feel the need to spook or run off. As I felt that because my horse was on the calmer he wasn't going to spook and I felt more relaxed in the saddle. I also owe a huge amount of thanks to the lady who taught me how to long-line. I firmly say that this is one of the most useful tools for building up trust and confidence between horse and human. I spent a lot of the winter long-lining my horse and it gave me the confidence that I could control him.
But the most important lesson I learned when riding a spooky horse is to go with them. When my horse used to bolt I would just sit ramrod straight in the saddle, bouncing around on his back making him run even more. Once I had learned to relax my core muscles when he took flight, my body would go with him and he would stop far sooner and calm down so much quicker.
I know you have recieved lots of advice and I hope I'm not confusing things but this is what I would do with your mare.
Firstly, keep doing what you are doing! Join-Up, taking her off excitable feeds and desensitizing her will all help you massively when it comes to staying firmly put in the saddle. My next step would be to aquire some long lines, watch Monty's videos and have a go yourself in the arena. This should help with your trust and understanding of eachother which should hopefully transfer to all areas of your work with her. I would then look into the possibility of aquiring a valerian calmer- I'm not saying this is the ideal one for your horse but I know it works on 90% of cases. Also, I don't know if this is possible, but do any of your friends have an experienced, calm horse that you could borrow? I say this for two reasons, one being that if your mare is living with a calm horse their attitude may rub off on her and two being that as many people have said you could ride this other horse and grow in confidence in your own riding. I found riding a 'schoolmaster' was a great way for me to become aware of what I was doing in the saddle- was I unbalanced, was I tipping forwards, was I clenching my tummy muscles? All of these factors contributed to my falls from my spooky horse and by fixing them on an experienced horse with a good instructor I have stayed on pretty much ever since!
I am aware of how horrible it is to fall off and hurt yourself- when I was younger I fell off and cracked my elbow which gave me what seemed an irreparable fear of cantering. I'm sure I'll always have bad memories of these painful and frightening experiences, but I believe that once you have learnt from what went wrong and the problem hasn't resurfaced for a good while you can close the door on those bad experiences and enjoy all aspects of riding again.
So, set yourself up for success and you will eventually be able to ignore the memory of your falls and enjoy your mare for what she is. Good Luck!

Hi again Michelle and EllieandMyler - I really enjoyed reading your comments EllieandMyler. Very good advice to all of us who have Spooky horses. Thanks

Thank you EllieandMyler for your comments. They are very good advice and I will definetly look in to the Valerian calmer. I have my horse on a calmer now (only for about 4 days) and so I haven't seen too much, however, last night I was riding her in my arena and my husband let out one of our dogs who likes to chase the horses when they are turned out and she came into the arena while I was on my horse. I was instantly terrified and yelled a couple of times and might of even screamed at the dog to leave. All this behavior definitely spooked my horse and I was 99% at fault for her spookiness during that episode. She probably would have just stood there while my husband came to retrieve the dog, but I was so worried about what she MIGHT do, instead of what she WAS doing and I just made things worse. But what I DID happen to realize was that she was not as spooky as in past instances and only jigged around and did try to run off or do her "exit stage left" thing that she likes to do and I stayed on! After I calmed down, I continued to ride and we had a nice ride in the arena doing different exercises.

I'm going to hire someone to ride my horse 2 days a week and also ride with me when I go out to boost my confidence. I like your comment EllieandMyler about walking with my horse and I have been thinking about that and it's funny that you mention it. I'm going to incorporate that in as well. I'm also looking for a good trainer who can help me with riding and seeing what I'm doing wrong and what my horse is doing like you suggested Jessy. I don't have any friends that have a horse I can borrow and I wish I did. I have been separating my two horses and turning one out at a time to get them used to being alone in their stalls. Mine is pretty ok with that, but my daughter's horse still has issues.

It is a bummer when you have set backs, but I guess such is life! I'm sorry to hear about you ankle Jessy but I'm glad you found a good trainer that can help. Thanks again for everyone's comments. They are really helpful!

Michelle
You have been getting great advise for your horse. Here is a site that anyone that is trying to keep their horse calm and collected should find interesting.

http://www.horse-advice.com/equi-therapy/nutrition/magnesium.shtml

The suggestion of relaxing when your horse bolts is very good, though it can be had to do when you are also afraid. One other suggestion is that you also could benefit from valerian as well as magnesium. Be sure to allow plenty of time for the herbs to work. Usually I wait about two hours from the time I give the horse the herbs. I not a big fan of giving valerian everyday, but magnesium is ok

Cheers

Hi Michelle,

That's a lot of work you did in a few weeks and what I can read you are making progress and what you are doing with all our suggestions. Well done!!!!!!
I am also glad to read that you are relizing now what you are doing when a situation is coming up and what your action is on this and how Cheyenne reacts on this.
I am trying to translate "it is a bummer when you have set backs" and what I understand is that it is imbarecing to do some steps backwords. If that is so.... then my question is why is Monty backing up a horse when he is not standing still or doing something else what he didn't ask for. Because the horse has to listen and being coopertative, taking pressure off. So....... why aren't you not taking maybe 10 steps back with yourself!! and come step by step forward and doing then the right things???? And you are already doing this.It makes you stronger, more confidence and you will learn yourself more then ever before.
Analise, be patiencent!!!!!, videotape yourself (somebody else offcourse without you are knowing this) watch this tape over and over again, study Monty's lessons and change things.
I am realy glad for you, how you are doing and it is amazing what one question of you give a lot of information from all of us, what not only helps you, but all of us.
Good luck and hearing from you more.
Kind regards May de Groot, Holland

Thanks for your thoughts Dennis and May. I will try the site Dennis and look into using valerain. The supplement I started using has magnesium but I don't think it has valerian.

Hi Michelle

There is lots of information on this thread. I would like to comment on the thoughts of supplements and hay. First of all Supplements work with the Local Hay to make up for what is deficient. Then there are Supplements for the kind of work your horse is doing. If you buy a Supplement for say Iowa it is not going to have the extra amounts you need in So. Cal. Sure it will make your horse seem better for a while but over time the horse will be out of balance in some other way. It is best to focus on what is needed in your area.

First start with your Hay. Find out where it is grown. Just go to where you buy it and ask. If it is Good Hay they should be able to at least tell you what county it was grown in.

Second talk to your Local Agriculture Department. (Should be in the same office as the 4-H. If not the 4-H office can point you in the right direction). Find out what Deficiency are a problem in your area.Then find out what is deficient in the soil where your hay is grown. Find out if there is a Supplement that is made specifically for your area. In Central Oregon We use Equerry's. I had Good Experience with the Original Dynamite in Northern California but Southern California Soil is different.

A Level Head Is only Achieved with a Healthy Body. It sounds like you have done a Good Job With The Training and had a successful period of time. It is time to look with in.

Have you had her checked for worms? Are your Mares Hooves Healthy and your Farrier doing a Good Job? Did she fall on her saddle at anytime and maybe broke the tree?

Pain & Vitamin or Mineral Deficiency Cause a Horse to be more on Edge. Vitamin D Deficiency seems to be Every Where and it causes poor eyesight and lack of concentration.

If you want to check this theory out cheaply, Buy a Sweetlix (Brand)Horse Pasture Block at the Farm Store, they cost between $15 & $20 (for the right kind). This is a Free Choice Block to give them what your hay or pasture is missing. If your 2 Horses eat that block all gone in less then 2 weeks, you have a problem. If your horses are getting what they need then they will work at that block as they need what is in it. No Harm to them.

Just my 2 Cents from many years and a couple dozen horse health repairs.

Dennis is absolutely right about not using a valerian calmer everyday- they are pretty strong and overdosing can make your horse MORE excitable- definitely not what you want! However I found a valerian calmer really helpful for more stressful situations like hacking out on my own and riding on a very windy day. Michelle, WELL DONE for coping with a spooky dog! I know exactly how it feels when you are terrified of what you 'know' is coming, but you did exactly the right thing in thinking about what actually went well and carrying on with your riding session. I found that it was very helpful for me to have a 'fallback excersise'- that is one that I had practiced a lot at home and felt comfortable doing but one that also kept my horse's brain occupied! My fallback excersise was 10 metre figure-of-eights, which I still do whenever I'm worried my horse is going to spook at something. As I can do these at a walk and trot, I feel in control and I know that I'm keeping my horse's mind on the job and not on the flapping plastic bag floating through the arena! Perhaps you could practice this or something similar with your mare? I've heard of people using halt transitions for the same effect, but I think it's best to keep the horse moving- if you're both thinking about where you're going, you're not looking round for something to be worried about. I know this will seem hard at first- when you think your horse is going to 'exit stage left' you want to keep her feet still, but eventually you'll get to a stage where you spot a spooky object, calmly move your horse into your fallback excersise and wait until the spooky object moves away or you feel confident enough to continue with what you were doing before. Interestingly, yesterday I was working my horse in the arena and had been doing so for 20 minutes, when suddenly I realised that a plastic bag had been blowing around the arena. Because I hadn't noticed it, my adrenaline hadn't gone up and my horse hadn't noticed anything because both he and I were concentrating on what we were doing! Eventually your mare will begin to trust your judgement like this and both of you will stop looking for things to spook at! Once again, good luck, and get well soon to all those people who have had accidents.

Just thought I would update my progress with my horse! I recently hired a trainer and we work together for two hours every thursday and friday. So far, things are going really well and I'm excited about what I am learning. She know Join Up and Monty's concepts and also incorporates some other well known trainer's concepts so I really like her approach to training. She has been showing me better ways to tell my horse that I am in charge and to pay attention to me. We have also beening working on disengaging the hips and moving the shoulders which takes the horses ability to flee away which we will also incorporate while riding so that when/if a spooky situation arises, I can ask my horse to disengage her hip which will (1) take her mind off the spooky object; (2) cause her to have to listen and trust me; and (3) keep her from being able to flee or "exit stage left" like she likes to do. I also showed my trainer how my horse has "trained" me to put on her bridle (with a cookie in hand so she will open her mouth for the bit) so we are working on me training my horse to accept the bit and bridle. I've also watched Monty's videos regarding Abigale and have been incorporate some of that as well.

I've been riding my horse in our area and that is going well. My trainer is going to pony my horse on the trail for a while and then we will go out together. Things are going very well!

Great news Michelle. Well done and thanks for up dating us

Great thread. I haven't finished reading it yet, but just wanted to say that I have the same problem with my gelding. I ride the trails alone and now I've stopped cause he is too spooky and there is too much traffic and farm equipment, etc. I am looking forward to continuing this thread. Thanks Michelle!

Michelle
way to go! I know that you must be feeling much more confident in not only your horse but your self as well. On thought crossed my mind is what type of saddle are you using. If you are using a flat saddle (English) you might consider either an endurance saddle or a western saddle for riding on the trail . Those two saddles will give you better leverage in staying in the center of the horse. Anyway I am happy that you found a great trainer and are making progress

Cheers

I used to tell people if you want to hunt rabbits, get a Beagle, if you want to hunt ducks get a Lab. People who get horses should get the breed that suits their needs. If you want to trail ride get a breed that was bred for trail riding. Know the bloodlines of the horse, if the Stud was hot and the mare a witch, your not going to get a nice calm horse. Great to hear you were smart enough to get a trainer. But don't ever feel bad if you want to get a real horse that you can enjoy. Horses cost time and money, I like to spend both wisely. Get One that you can throw in the pasture over the winter and hop on in the spring and know your body is safe. There are many trust worthy horses out there.

LonaFende,
Whoa, that is some comment!
From studying the different horse breeds I have to say I have come to the conclusion that the breed or breeding does not have so much to do with their actions as we humans do.
For example hot blooded horses can compete in many factions of sport. The TB is a prime example of this.
If trained in the proper way and treated fairly it can do anything, even be a good trail horse.
They are magnificent animals, loyal, spirited and exciting to ride.
Training will always speak for itself, as Monty says: "Horses can't lie".
We humans have to look in the mirror if horses are misbehaving and ask ourselves, WHY?
I'm not sure what kind of horse could be thrown into a pasture for months and then be expected to behave in a safe manner when ridden, perhaps if it were 22 and could hardly move.
There are many remedial horses that have been treated badly, retrained in a fair and firm way and become great horses that are safe.
It's all in the training!!! Plus the human contact!!!
My questions are, what breed of horse has been bred for trail riding? And what is a real horse? And finally, what does money have to do with the love of the horse?
Ronda

LonaFende,

QUE????

May.

A nice wooden rocking horse could be the best option here. No expensive vet or food bills either. Apologies to everyone - I couldn't resist it!!