I'm afraid I don't know enough to advise but I am very keen to hear what others think.

Well,Paul here, I hope you do not mind my commenting. As you probably know already, each and every horse is different, and the treatment that one decides to use has to be based on a careful and correct diagnosis for that specific horse. Right off the bat, without seeing the horse, my decision to purchase would be completely dependent on what I wanted to use him/her for. If for GP for instance, my "knee jerk" would be "no" however, with proper treatment if it isn't terribly chronic you might want to say "yes".

Here is a link that "might" help you to make up your mind, in combination with your own vet providing a very thorough consult and examination. Hope it helps. Good luck and cheers,

http://www.nanric.com/evaluating_navicular_bone.asp

Paul

I'm back. Sorry about such a cold and hasty response. I should have thought it out more. From my experience people generally tend to be too scared therefore way too reluctant to give some horses a chance, especially with respect to severe foot problems.

I'm a firm believer in being very very patient, and most grade 2 navicular problems can be worked through to a complete recovery with patience and understanding. that it (recovery) generally takes quite a long time. The fact that your horse is "athletic" and presumably of sound body and mind other than the navicular situation should hasten recovery.

Get an "experienced" farrier who has worked with pathological problems to shoe him up properly and carefully based on your horses's exact requirements....they all vary.
Rest him up well and work him back up very very slowly under the guidance of a good equine vet.

As any one will tell you, it is impossible tell you whether or not the horse would be a "good buy" without considering all of the parameters. Age, type, quality, condition, costs to your for treatment, duration. I personally couldn't turn the poor thing down, being a sucker for any horse with foot problems, particularly when from my experience, depending on the age of this horse you may very well be turning down a very fine prospect.

I just re-read your statement and it looks as if you didn't have an x-ray done?....if its just been a physical test and the response has been rather mild....well, I would say yes. I am assuming however, that you have watched him "travel" and that he is fine otherwise? Please note, just a physical test is not a clear indicator, many other hoof problems elicit the same or very similar reactions/responses. Mind you, having an x-ray done here in Canada where I live is very costly indeed.

OK, I'm getting carried away here now, I'll stop.

I hope this helps...?

Cheers,

Paul

One last thing....if you decide to proceed with this purchase...(none of my business), but if you do, for the horses sake, it is very important that it (navicular trouble) be taken care of properly. Some farriers have no idea what to do as they (some) simply do not bother to take the advanced courses that they should with respect to pathological treatments. I have actually seen some horses have their "breakover" time increased which is one of the worst things that can be done to make the matter worse.
To that end, (providing understanding), here is a site link that provides an excellent explanation for same. Just so your farrier and vet get it right.

http://stablemade.com/hproducts/ailments/navicular_stress.htm

Good luck.

Paul

I had a feeling Paul could help ;-) Lots of good info for all of us Paul

I wish we lived in the same country Paul - I would love to steal all this detailed knowledge from you lol If I ever manage to get to Canada I will hunt you down..... :-)

Hey Vicci,
Thank you for the kind words. If you should be able to manage a visit, you would be most welcome. I have visited Wales many years ago, what a beautiful countryside, and the people were very down to earth and friendly.

I'm pleased to hear that some of my limited knowledge is turning out to be useful. Its rather scary isn't it?...to see just how little (for the better) the handling of horses has changed over the years?

Am I remembering correctly that you had done a study of horse colour being passed down through generations? Perhaps it was someone else?...Anyway, I have some interesting data that would interest anyone doing just that is all.....

Take care and best of luck with your horses... : )

Paul

Hi Paul, yes I had done some initial work on colour and the mythology of relating colour to behaviour etc "oh what can you expect from a chestnut mare" etc etc. However it was more of a literature search really so I cannot claim anything original at all, so anything you have I would be itnerested in! Thanks. You are right, it is scary and sad too that we are so entrenched in old ideas. I work with dogs too and it's just the same there.

I'd love to see your information about color too, Paul. Color genetics in horses has been a hobby of mine for decades and I am always trying to keep myself updated on new scientific finds in that area.
.
PS/ Don't be modest! You're knowledge is quite extensive and you sharing it so generously, much appreciated!

Greetings again;

Listen, my only claim to fame is (if I say so myself) is that I am a very good pathological farrier, and have raised and trained American Saddlebreds, with emphasis on gaits.

Any other knowledge that I have garnered has been by studying the hard work of tens and tens of others. In doing so, I (hoping I am right here)I have sifted out the BSers from the truly knowledgeable and have drawn my own synopsis

OK, anyway, with respect to colour and breeding: With respect to both, there is a very little know work, by an Italian breeder/trainer, Mr. Federico Tesio.

He has conducted the most exhaustive study known to man (in my humble opinion) on breeding and colour. The study involved evaluating the meticulous record over literally millions of racehorses. The count is somewhere in the vicinity of 10 million. Yes, your read that right. And I have checked and this is an accurate figure.

His observations and comments and conclusions are both incredibly interesting and funny as well. I would recommend this "work" to anyone who is or is thinking about getting involved in breeding any kind of horses for any kind of purpose.

For instance, I did not know that one can both inbreed and line breed and nature itself will make sure that Mendel's law applies and that the "species" (horse) will deteriorate only so far at the hand of man and nature will protect and preserve "them" and ameliorate the damage. As well, he provides an exhaustive study on breeding and colour.

So, there you go....I just rambled this off very quickly as I am off to an appointment....I didn't proof read this, sorry if there any screwups.

Here is the bood specs:
"Breeding the Racehorse
Author: Federico Tesio
ISBN;978-085131-618-5
Publisher: J. A. Allen, UK
Available from, The Book Depository, UK, (on line)

Cheers,

Paul

OK, just got back. Just reread above and I note that I have apparently read a "bood" instead of a "book"..lol...come on, that is a little funny?

Mr. Tesio's died in 1954. His first (English) publishing was in 1958, so, I am going to opine that that is one of the major reasons for his work being relegated to the back of the church, as it were? And, the reprints have been numerous but limited. The latest reprint being 2009.

Anyway, thats it. I so very highly recommend this book, its only a 130 page read, but I must say, "the" most informative and insightful (albeit) shortest book on horses that I have ever read.

Kind regards.
Paul

hello guys
i didnt expect my question getting this much attention.:)thansk alot and sorry if i responded a little bit late.
As Paul said i consulted with a good farier and he said why should you bother and start probably making a horse suffer when you want to go for showjumping. moreover radiology results also didn't turn out good.So i said no.
thanks alot again being a member of this university is exactly what a rider need it is fantastic :)

thanks alot Paul the page you suggested was a great help for me

What a shame, of course the sad reality is that statistically the poor horse was misused, as is the sad reality with well over 95% of problems that exist with these fantastic creatures.

The best of luck with finding a good jumper. Just a thought, but, if you have the training knowledge, you could start your own jumper from scratch (so to speak?). Not that long ago I purchased 4 Dutch warmbloods that I am going to start next year. My point; having purchased them at a very young age with literally no training whatsoever, but very good bloodlines I was able to get them for well under $3500.00CDN each. Mind you (of course) that doesn't mean they are going to turn out to be GP material, but I have every confidence (to date, its looking that way) that they will certainly be good jumpers to varying degrees. I'm branching out from Saddlebreds...lol.

I must say though that in Ontario Canada, where I purchased these, there is an abundance of Dutch Warmbloods for sale. It seems that virtually all of the Dutch warmbloods there, are kept "fresh" with regular imports from Europe as you can see from the postings on line. I was thinking of course that depending on what country you are in you could do the same as I have?....I hope you do not think I am being too presumptuous?

As well, and almost as importantly, the group of Dutch breeders that I do business with are ardent and sincere followers of Monty's methods and try to "imprint" when and if they can at birth. So, its all good.

Kiki and Vicci, if you like, I can send you the relevant pages from Tesio's work on colour if you wish. Just let me know. It will save you a little money at least... : )

Kind regards and the very best.

Paul

You are so very welcome Ebrahim...we must have been typing at the same time? I wish you the best of luck in your search for a good jumper. By the way, I have some very good contacts in Germany and Holland if you are looking there.

Cheers,

Paul

Thanks Paul for all the information you have given us here. It has been most helpful and useful for me too.

Hi paul, yes please send me anything you have! My email is viccihh1@btinternet.com (if anyone else wants it on here please feel free but I'd appreciate you NOT passing it on to non forum people without my permissio - thanks).

Hi Paul,
Thank you so much for the offer. That is so kind of you. :)
In this case I actually have the book. It is a fantastic read that I recommend as well! His theories on color genetics are even more impressive considering that he came to these conclusions decades before they found out about DNA and how that works.
Viccihh1, you will have so much fun with that! :)

hey Paul
it is really really good that you have good contacts in Germany and Holland. i live in Iran and being tired of this search i was thinking about traveling to Europe. definitely i need them if i go there. please send their contacts to me.
i was going to tell you how hard it is to buy a horse in Iran and why i want to buy a trained horse for now but i dont bother you with that.
i definitely go to Europe in future to buy a good young horse
thanks a lot for help.