Janelle no doubt you are disappointed that your beautiful new brumby didn't join up with you but it is early times in your relationship and you have achieved so much already so I would let it be. Given how he is reacting to you I think he feels joined up already and if you persist in trying then you may undo some of this precious trust that you have already built up. If I was you I would just continue as you have been the last week and just allow you and your brumby to relax and get to know each other better. You certainly don't wish to make him worried about you which could happen if you persist in trying join-up which obviously is confusing for him. How exciting to finally have him with you. All the best with your early training. I would just continue to lead him into and around the round pen at this stage and start some ground work with him. Have fun and remember how far he has already come given he was running wild with his herd only five months ago. Just take it slowly now and I am sure you will end up with a wonderful horse.

nelliebell
Lets see, your boy stands quietly to be groomed just being ground tied, picks his feet up, and follows you around. Your Brumby shows the signs of being intelligent, as well as calm in scary situations. So if he is doing everything that you expect horse to do after join up without having to do join up. So why do you need to do join up if he already is looking to you as the leader and is willing to do what you ask?
If he were my horse I would count my self triple lucky. You have rescued a feral horse, he is smart, as most mustangs and brumbys are, and he is looking to you as the one person to pay attention to.
My suggestion is to do as much ground work as you can, changing up the routine since smart horses also get bored with too much routine. Put him in the round pen again and leave him in there for 20 or 30 minutes so he gets to explore the pen and take in all the smells and sight, then go back in and see if you can drive him forward by standing just behind his shoulder as if you were going to lunge him but do it with out a line. You may need to walk right behind him to keep him moving. After a couple of laps take him out and just walk with him. Don't stroll with him but walk at a fast clip. This will enforce him following you
When in you training routine he becomes defiant or stubborn, then you should do your join up. By that time your horse should understand that you want him to go around the round pen without stopping. Be sure you really understand all the subtle movements in join up. Keep calm and optimistic in your work and don't worry if it is not just perfect. You will have many chances to make it perfect, usually when you least expect it to happen.
Let us know how it is going. You are doing a great thing for your horse!

Cheers

Hi Janelle
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So glad to hear that you have your new Brumby and everything is going well! Don't worry about the join-up not going to plan, its early days yet :-)
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I think you should ask this question to Monty Roberts directly via the askmonty@montyroberts.com email address in the email Newsletter, and with a bit of luck, he will answer you. It would be great to hear his view on this.
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Not being able to get your horse to go away for join-up pops up on the forum a fair bit; however your situation is unique as you are dealing with a brumby.
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There are two DVDs that may be good for you, one is You and Your Wild Horse and the other is Rosie. They are both about how Monty Roberts with mustangs :-)
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Maybe there are some additional steps that Monty Roberts and his team take with the mustangs to prepare them for join-up so that they understand what you are asking?
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I hope it all works out for you Janelle, he sounds great already and will only get better with time.
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Kind regards,
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Gen

Hi again Janelle
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I didn't see Dennis's post before making mine and I just wanted to say that I agree with him and Maggie in that the ground work sounds like a great idea. I wonder if they do that in the DVDs?
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Kind regards,
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Gen

I am very interested in hearing how things work out with your situation, I attempted join-up with my 3 yr old about 2 weeks ago when I got back from the into course and I had the same situation. My girl is great with dually work and does the 4 dually steps great, and is overall a very friendly, curious, and respectful horse. When I tried sending her away at 2 o'clock she just stood there and turned her head around looking at me. I could jump, kick dirt, make loud noises, cluck, throw the line, anything but she didn't move. she finally made it to the gate but that was the end of that. When I decided to give up and went to her she seemed all relieved and happy that I had got all that out of my system and she just skipped join up and did follow up instead ... I wouldn't mind but I can't long line if she just stands there. I did do long lining with my sister leading her and I used lots of voice commands so my sister knew what I was doing with the lines. I am not really sure how I should go about it since she moves out of my way perfectly fine when I send her away during feed time or if I am taking water buckets in etc. I am kinda waiting to see is she acts up or anything during training and see if I can send her away then, since the send off is essentially punishment. I know your situation is different since your horse is fairly new and he had been wild. I have seen quite a few similar posts but non of the advice really clicked exactly with my situation. I could go on but I think ill leave it at that ;D Good luck and congrats on getting your new horse :)

Me thinks that the horse my be smarter than us! know the look that they give like they are saying what is wrong with you. don't you know how to behave?

Ha ha, yes my horses have given me that look at times Dennis :-)) Sounds like Janelle's boy was doing the same.
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When I first started trying to do join-up, my horse Ranger would not move away from me. He gave me the look Dennis describes. He is a trained horse, and it turned out to be my body language that was the problem. He didn't believe me when I asked him to go away. My husband could move him on, but it took me a while to get him to go.
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Almira, did you contact your Intro Course Instructor to see what he or she had to say about your situation? If so, what did they say?
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Kind regards,
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Gen

Hi all, thanks for yur input here...much appreciated :-)

I think Maggie and Dennis are on the money here. I had thought afterwards that maybe join-up isn't necessary as yet. I think i will stick to the ground work and maybe try having a bit of fun with that and see how he goes then. Dennis, about the lunging without a line...are you saying that i should try to get him moving but in a less agressive manner than the 'sending away' in join-up? I do like this idea and think it could work. And i do count myself triple lucky! He is a great little horse with a fantastic attitude. I just don't want to stuff anything up and destroy all that has been achieved in this short space of time! And i agree they are most definately smarter than we are!!
Gen, i think i will invest in those two dvd's! Might help me to know what time frames to expect and as you said there may be extra steps to prepare for join-up etc.

Thanks again :-)
Janelle

Janelle
When I lung my horse in a round pen I don't have him on a lead line but rather i drive him around by staying just at his shoulder and walking in the direction I want him to move. He will usually go around two or three times and then tell me that is enough in that direction and he will change directions. Sometimes I will let him have his way and others I will chase him waving my arms which is a game that we play. He will start to buck and snort rear up an spin around and go in the original direction. I would not recommend the chasing part until you have established a play routine with your horse and not all horses will want to play.

By lungeing him without a line you start to establish much better body position. One of the most difficult parts of either join up or lungeing is staying far enough behind the shoulders to keep driving the horse. Too often people will get out of position and the horse will change direction without being asked to.

The brother to my horse will lunge in a perfect circle in the open without a line. We found this out when we put him in the arena at liberty just so he could run off some energy and he just started the circle and remained about 20' away just as if he had a lead line on him.

Cheers

Hi Gen, today I tried join up again with my girl since she was being a little difficult and kept trying to walk off while I was putting tack on which she usually doesn't do. So I decided join up might be a good plan since there is that whole 'don't go away a little, go away a lot' theme to it ;D. She did get stuck ALOT like last time but I could get her moving at least and we did get join up and follow up. It goes with out saying that the last few minutes of her session went better. I guess this time her energy was already up and I am sure that my intent was a little stronger since she was giving me a hard time, she was still bloody hard to keep moving, I got tired just sending her those few laps! I will check in with someone at MRILC to see what they would recommend since a lot of people seem to have this problem.

Hi Almira, its great that you got her moving and could do a join-up :-) I know how you feel with having to do a lot of work too! It will be good to see what your Instructor comes back with.
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Hi Janelle, I hope the DVDs are useful and fill in some blanks for you. I Can't wait to get my hands on them. I have written a note to Santa and am hoping I will get them for Christmas ;-)
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See you later,
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Gen

Hi Gen, I hope Santa is very nice to you and you get those dvd's! My Birthday is not long after christmas so i will be putting my order in for them then! There is so much to learn and take in isn't there!
I am not going to try another join-up with Buster until we have some good ground work underway. At the moment i think he feels pretty good with me so probably don't need to worry about join-up yet...i bet those dvd's would help me out!!
I put the question of Buster not moving in to the ask monty thing and it was rejected as one for him to answer. Instead they told me to contact lyn mitchell. Unfortunately i couldn't get her even if i wanted as i live in tassie! :-( Did you know she took on two brumbies from the same place i got Buster? They are now ready to be sold to new homes. She has halter trained, float trained and tie up trained them as far as i know.
Anyway for now Buster is going well and i even brushed his tail for the first time ever the other night. It is sooo thick and wavy! It touches the ground and he is only just 2!

Bye for now :-)

Janelle

Hi Janelle
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Even if Lyn could not come to your place due to the distance, you would probably benefit from having a chat with her on the phone. I found her to be very approachable at the Intro Course.
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Yes, I did know about her brumbies, she was telling us about them at the Intro Course. I can vaguely remember her talking about the gentling process and things they did before join-up, but I can't remember the details. There was so much going on at the time.
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Its great that everything is going well for you and Buster. It will only get better with time.
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I hope you get your birthday wish :-)
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Kind regards,
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Gen