Hi all - would just like your opinion on a join-up I tried with a friend's horse yesterday. This horse was mentioned in my fairly lengthy response to 1ecofarmers "Round Pen Violence Thread". The timing of this join-up attempt was not good - after a group riding lesson - but the owner was pretty distressed with her horses recent behaviour and I believed that join-up would benefit them. He had not done join-up previously. We were also both present on the club grounds where there is a small paddock which I believed would be suitable enough as it hadn't rained for some time it was not slippery. Itseemed worthy of a try. I had hoped to help the owner with a join up session 12 months earlier but it was difficult to find a suitable venue and then she started having instructions with a non Monty professional. Sadly over the 12 months her horse's ground manners which were previously bossy and pushy have deteriorated so that they are now dangerous and the owner is contemplating selling this beautiful young jet black gelding. Given that I was warned that he could be dangerous I initially chose to single line lunge him on a lose rein. Unfortunately the owner had left her dually halter behind and didn't even have her rope halter so we had to use just a traditional halter. As the owner was concerned about him being dangerous I did ask to borrow her riding whip just in case he did choose to come in at me - I would have preferred a lunging whip as it would have been a little longer and more protective. Of course I wouldn't have used these whips on him but held them up and shaken them at him if he did become aggressive. He lunged fairly well and went through walk, trot and canter successfully although he was a little nervous. Once he was lunged I led him around the area to orientate him to it and to show him everything that was there. I then sent him out using the lunging rope bunched up as an aid like Monty does - I was worried that he wouldn't go out as his owner doubted he would and she figured he would try to double barrel me instead as I had to get quite close to him. However he went out for us and showed beautiful gaits during his flight period in both directions. I kept him going for quite awhile in a trot after his initial gallop and canter period. I moved him on with my hand and lunge rope while his owner remained in the centre of the area. I wanted him to join-up ultimatley with her and not me. Once we had most of the signs I asked her to arc around in front of him and turn into the centre. He moved in after her in a beautiful join up and then proceeded to follow up until he decided the juicy grass was too tempting and stopped to eat! She could have stroked him more and rewarded him but I guess she was a little nervous and dI doubt whether it would have made any difference - he is pretty blaza about stroking and patting. ???? My gut feeling is that this shouldn't have happened but what do you think? I sent him out again and he was quite piggy to send out until he finally conceded. I only made him trot a few circles this time watching for the signs and when we had them I got his owner to repeat the join-up, follow-up. A little better but same thing happened after he had done about 10 metres of follow up, head down to eat the grass. My mare would not have done this but would have continued to follow me but then she has plenty of juicy grass in her paddock while this gelding has not and he had just done an hours lesson. Soo ... what do you think?? I am pretty sure that we could have been completely successful if we had an enclosed sand surfaced menage or round pen. At least his manners were better after this experience so I guess we achieved something.
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Great Maggie,
I also read the other post. Poor horse.
Can I make a suggestion, could you be the one to have the horse join-up with you instead of the owner and once you get it successful then show the owner how to do it?
Sometimes this works best. Once the horse has learned how to do this the next time it is easier for the horse to understand what is being asked of them.
GRASS: Oh yes, I know what you mean by that. Spring is here and Star has been hay feed all winter so even when we take her for a walk she wants the grass. So what I have done is allowed her a little while to munch and then we get down to work. Works for me. Hope it does you.
This poor owner will be very grateful to have someone like you to care enough to take the time to help her and the poor horse will too.
It's great that you tried and next time it will be even better.
Have a good day,
Ronda
Give him a break he did good for all that has happened to him. The owner's doubt, the whipping ( no wonder he is concerned about pats and strokes) and no grass and then available. It to them is like our favorite sweet is to us but is their main food. Monty has showed the damage single line lungeing can do but I understand why you were concerned.
Thank you both so much! It seems I was expecting too much. I was pleased with him for getting as far as he did. I will suggest to the owner that I try it by myself next time - pity about the grass. I had wanted to do the first up by myself but didn't wish make the owner feel I was leaving her out. She is the one he needs to join up with as he remembers me from previously and is pretty responsive and good for me. For example he didn't try to double barrel me at all when I was sending him out and he had plenty of opportunities to do so. I think she just needs to get rid of her current instructor and be kinder to him - it would be good if she could get rid of her spurs and whip too or at least not use them so harshly! I don't think she wants to be mean to him but she feels as if she has to do what the instructor asks. Thanks again - I wasn't sure if I was expecting too much or not. Now I know!!
:(
Currently I am very embarassed and wish to make a huge apology to fiona.fleurie for this thread and her beautiful horse, Banjo. The above comment was meant to be just a little sad face from fiona. Firstly I am very excited and pleased to know that fiona is still a member of this Uni and still reads forum. I wrongly assumed that she had given up on Monty's methods and the uni given her current instructor is a non Monty person. If I had known fiona was still a member previously I would have sent her a copy of the thread to check her opinion of it before posting - that would have saved my current embarassment! Secondly fiona is an extremely gentle, non agressive person who loves her horse dearly - I believe this is one of the reasons why her horse has learnt to be bossy with her- she actually needs to be more forceful with him. However when she is having a lesson she does feel compelled to do as her instructor asks and that makes sense - hence the spurs and whip which she tries to use as gently as possible. Thirdly, Banjo apparently was dangerous and trying to double barrel her 6 months ago. Although her instructor has helped her correct this she thought she should warn me before I handled him just in case. Fuorthly when her instructor went up to Banjo after his canter she was going to remove an elastic head restrainer she had placed on him but Banjo pushed into her with his head hence she pushed him back and whipped him. The rest of us hadn't seen this so it appeared to be punishment after the wonderful canter. Fiona has decided not to continue having private, training lessons with this instructor and is going to send her horse to a more natural trainer who has had great success with friends horses. She will then take lessons from this new trainer. This is great news fiona and I feel sure that you and your beautiful Banjo can now look forward to much better times ahead. Please accept my apology for the misunderstandings.
Hi cherosnowball thanks for your response but I have to make the correction here too and apologies to you too. The owner is extremely gentle and kind to this horse. She only uses her whip on him when riding because she is told to by her instructor. The instructor does whip him. She has now stopped having private lessons with that instructor. He does have short grass in his paddock just not long juicy grass.
thanks margie i knew you meant no harm and i love my horse we just need to work each other out
That's great to hear, Fiona.
I am sure you and your horse will do fine now.
Maggie is a great horseperson and has much experience to share with us all.
Don't be too hard on yourself, Maggie, I think you wanted to let us know that there are some really bad trainers out there and stories like this help us to be aware of the early signs to bale out.
So thank you Maggie.
Also, some of us are too shy to speack up in our own defence when it comes to someone in a field of "expertise". We expect them to know what they are doing and trust them to do it right. I'm sure Fiona will now speack up if she does not like what is happening. She will have more courage now.
I certainly learned from my experience with STAR two years ago and that "professional" rider I hired. I now speak up and ask questions.
You guys have a great day,
Ronda
So great I'm so glad you gave that instructor the boot. We have to be our horses champions and not let anyone intentionally hurt them. I really appreciate that I have always had my horses on my own place especially after reading some of the experiences.