Sometimes it is just their way of saying we don't feel like work to day. I would go to the tack room first and then enter his paddock with the halter. If or when he comes up I would then pop the halter on give him a good rub down, walk him around a bit then release him. If this doesn't work then I would try bribing him. A couple of chopped up pieces of carrot is usually an effective bribe and you can just drop them on the ground close to you if you are a good Monty student and don't wish to give treats from the hand or try hay or a bit of hard feed in a bucket. They do get very smart - my Tricka canters to the top of the paddock as soon as I hook up the float. I now hook up my trailer/float a few hours before I need to catch her - I also bribe her back with a little hay.

He is a bit lazy. He thinks why trot when I can walk. The other training system put a bit more pressure on him to move his feet. So that may be the issue.

Hi Jane - don't beat yourself up so much :-) Your relationship is not ruined, it just need restarting that's all. Horse are incredibly forgiving - when we get it right they come back to us. I am guessing (but correct me if I'm wrong) that the "other method" is Parelli work. If so, if you search under my name you will find an explanation that I gave of why using the two methods together can be very confusing and frustrating for a horse. There is nothing wrong with picking and choosing bits from different people you don't have to be rigid about Monty's methods it is about a philosophy of training - one that is about cooperation and non violence. The methods are the best way Monty has found to deliver training within that philosophy. This is often where many people go wrong (not you, I'm just rambling a bit now for anyone who cares to listen haha). They study the methods and implement them but they don't change their ideas. For example, they may use the Dually "to get the horse to not be pushy" but they will still smack it in the stable if it does something wrong. The method without the philosophy is like wearing a party dress to go in a boxing ring :-) I do go on a bit don't I?! Anyway, back to Ollie. I have huge respect for Maggie's views and I know she is ok with our different beliefs about using food - I choose not to but it is not inherently wrong if used correctly as Maggie does. Take a deep breath Jane, start again, make friends with Ollie again in the field (see my other post about a horse that doesn't want to be caught in "My Horse has a mind of its own) and I can assure you he will forgive you. Just put it down to learning and continue to stay open minded to everyones ideas (but mainly Montys haha). Keep us posted .

Hi Vicci.
Thanks for your advice. The other training method is Clinton anderson. I have studied parelli in the past. I am one of those people who have a thirst for knowledge in different methods, but you are right it must be confusing for the horse.

I have watched Clinton and I am not keen; his methods are based around the Parelli type philosophy but he is a lot more aggressive (especially when he forgets the camera is there) - the only thing I do like is that he is passionate about plain speak rather than jargon i.e. it's the back Left foot not "the near side hind" and I completely agree with him - jargon only serves to create elitism and exclusion. Good luck Jane, I'm sure you will do fine :-)

Hi guys
I use several methods too but I only take training methods on if they are non violent.
Jane I would do similar to what Maggie suggested, but also make it a habit of going to see Ollie with head collar in hand even when you're not going to catch him, make a fuss of him even put the head collar on the ground near you so he stops associating you and the head collar as work time.
You might like Missy Wren, she's quite fun to watch and is completely for asking the horse and cooperation and not telling him. Her join up is at liberty http://www.missywryn.com
Mel x

Hi Jane,
There is not much I can add to the sound advice by Maggie and Vicci,
you discovered the hard way, that horses get confused by using different methods.
Now you wrote : Ollie is somewhat lazy. Pressure and NO RELEASE is what confuses
them most of all. There are some great lessons on this Uni about the use
of the "Giddy-up-rope" (Walter won't go forward-lessons), that might give you an idea
of howto communicate to Ollie he's asked to move faster, without confusing him.
The most important part of that lesson is the release of pressure and not picking up the reins,
should he have a strong reaction. Watch the lessons over and over, everytime you'll find new aspects!
You'll be able to gain his trust by being consistant and move on from there.
Keep us posted!
Miriam

Sorry Mel, I'd like to add your name to the sound advice-list!!!

Hi all: I am not clear why the difference in methods would cause the horse to walk away to the response of the halter unless the horse is simply not having fun or finishing on a positive note in the prior sessions. Perhaps he/she does not see the trainer as the leader to follow. Totally agree to go out to the paddock and make it about "join up versus being caught and not about a training session every time. If its not your own facility then its possible others are trying to catch your horse using conventional chase the horse round and round until captured and haltered approach and then you need to go back to joinup in the open paddock or pasture as a basics. Just a few thoughts -don't feel guilty about seeking knowledge - I also am a curious learner and have reviewed several trainers concepts over the years. Monty's methods are truly at the core of the equus relationship and getting that right sets the stage for whatever you wish to share with your equine partner after that.

Hi all
Thank you all for your sound advice. I will take one step at a time with Ollie, he is such a loving pony. Thank you also for not making me feel a failure. I rent a field with stables so there's just me and my two ponies. I am going to watch the join up lessons again. I,ll keep you posted over the next few days.

Thanks for all those comments. I too have been looking at different methods of training and wondered if that confused the horse. My horse is very willing and always comes to me in the pasture. I surely do not want to do anything to ruin that. I do join up at liberty and I love it. I was told that was not a good idea. I wondered "why" if the join up is successful at liberty. I would like to do that in the pasture as well.

Join Up is a process to engender trust between horses and humans - it is not something to be done repeatedly as its not necessary if the bond with your horse is good. If he comes to you already and you have a good relationship what is it that you think "doing Join Up" will give you? Doing liberty work is something different - often these things are just confusion over terminolgy and different interpretations of things. On that basis, I don't think I'm entirely following what you mean when you say "I do join up at liberty" - if you mean no line attached well so does everyone else :-) Are you meaning something else? I'm intrigued!

Tonight I rubbed Ollie all over with the dually halter, then walked away and he followed me, later i gave him a treat and put the dually on and gave him a brush then took it off. I shall do the same tomorrow. I forgot to say yesterday how brilliant you all are and how nice it is to have such a big family from all over the world in fact to help me out. Just goes to show how small the world really is. I feel honoured to belong. Report back soon x

Great news Jane, glad it went well :-)

:-) Not a problem Miriam x

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lsedgwick1 There are several things why a horse will walk away when approaching with a halter, many because the owner causes the lead rope to hang or swing, this can look aggressive to a horse as it is the body movement that is causing the swing, if your arms are swinging you are making your body language bigger sending the horse away.
another thing that will send your horse away whilst trying to catch them in what's on your mind, we show expressions on our faces when we think about things, happy thoughts produce a smile, worrying about did you finish that bit of work? are you still wound up at that stupid driver that just cut you up shadow our facial features. All expressions we show on our faces by what we're thinking, the horse reads in their language, so if we're not focused on being relaxed they our facial expression could be sending the horse away. If you remember to smile when collecting your horse they are much more willing to come to you.
As you say too what if your horse isn't having fun once caught, yes this could well be the case so it's always important to be creative and not do the same thing over and over with your horse.
Horses respond better when there is consistency, their language is very basic to learn so if we start with a language or method then introduce another one, or swap between the two, then this is like trying to speak to me in both French and German I wouldn't understand a thing you say. same for the horse.
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Jane, brilliant what you are doing and please do keel us posted on here. Try putting the dually on his back and leave it there so he has to reach around and pull it off his back, make it into a game, so each time you approach with the dually he won't be focused just on being caught but what are you going to do this time.
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Vicci and betsy4health1 I think at liberty workout and join up can be confusing if you're not interpreting the Equus properly, during join up we look for the 4 signs, ear lock on, licking and chewing, smaller circles and head dropping close to the ground, when we see theses signs then we know that we will get a successful join up. in an at liberty training session the horse will show the same signs, as it might be telling you ok, I'm listening but can we stop now? at this point if we are working at liberty we still remain in control and continue the work, the horse then recognises that ok I've asked but more is expected and they carry on, still dropping their head to the ground now for longer periods of time which becomes part of their training to help them relax and work the back and help them to take more control if their head, this is the start of teaching them to collect themselves and strengthen the muscles they need for natural collection. As you carry on at liberty the horse will also go into show off mode as I call it, They collect their heads and should go into extended trot, and generally they'll turn their head in towards you as part of the show, this again is good training for them and good for strengthening them. always remember to work equally on both sides. when they go into show off mode, notice the corners of their mouth, assuming they are bitless you'll see they are smiling, they're having fun! remember to smile back :-)
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betsy4health1 When you are doing at liberty and end up joining up, the session seems quite short as join up normally only takes a few minutes, how long do you do at liberty for and what is the purpose of the session?

Mel x