Hey Jan (griffogirl) and other proponents of going barefoot. I am very much in favour of horses going barefoot, but of course its very dangerous for both horse and rider to not have shoes, if used for one of the disciplines and/or being predisposed genetically to having chronic problems. Here is one interesting race result that some will find interesting.
As well, a (sort of) comparative study that clearly identifies what I have always understood which is that "weight bearing" is shared by the digital cushion and the hoof wall, with the hoof wall taking most of the initial impact weight. Which makes perfect sense when considering the biomechanics of the entire structure.
http://hoofcare.blogspot.ca/2013/04/shoeless-thoroughbred-keeneland-barefoot-horseshoe.html
http://hoofcare.blogspot.ca/2013/02/equine-foot-digital-cushion-elephant-Sharton-Warner-research.html
Cheers
Thanks Paul - will have a look at these articles with great interest and will get back in touch later. Thanks for the knowledge sharing. Cheers, Jan
Hi Paul, firstly great to see the horses racing barefoot - what a great trend that is. The polytrack looks a very interesting surface, the horses race on grass here unless they are in the outback and then the tracks are dirt.
When I lived in Western Australia my farrier also trimmed the elephants feet at the Perth Zoo which makes Sharon Warner's PhD very interesting. I hope she gets to continue her research after she has finished the PhD as there seems to be a whole lot more we can learn on the load effects on the DC of the hoof and that research could be expanded to include a range of other factors.
These articles and blogs really open the eyes of the average horse owner to the impact of everyday life on the feet and hooves. So much to learn and so little time lol.
BTW Paul, where do you live - I am guessing in the USA but which part?
Cheers
Jan
I agree, it is a great thing to see horses racing (and racing with success) barefoot. I will have to follow this research most closely for new developments, and I just might have to show that to my farrier... even though he is a fan of barefoot horses too.
Hey Jan;
It was great to see the test track and all but I would still shoe my horse if he was racing. Its just to scary to think of what happens when a horse slips from running a turn at 35+ miles an hour. Several thousand are killed every year from injury in thoroughbred racing. It would help a lot to have such a track though and have it a straight run, then it would be a lot safer all around.
What a coincidence to have your farrier doing the elephants feet as well when mentioning this study. Be one hell of a thing to have a leaner eh?....lol.
I live in Nova Scotia. Lost Soul and I are really looking forward to getting some warm weather finally, although he suffers more that we do here with the snow and cold.
I have a lot of reference material that I'll pass on here to you asap, as my membership here expires in September and I may not renew...we'll see.
Take care, cheers for now.
Paul
It was interesting when Larry was doing the elephants as he didn't have too many problems with them as they put their feet up for him so there was no leaning but one of the girls was upset one day for some reason (maybe captivity !!!) and picked him up and threw him across the enclosure - he was pretty sore after that.
I asked where you were as I lived and worked in the USA for over 2 years and travelled through 31 states while there to have a look around. Did get to Canada but only to Toronto, Niagara Falls and Niagara on the Lake - didn't make it to Wisconsin either Soul. I did spend a couple of Christmases in rural Pennsylvania and New York City so experienced the white Christmas - quite a treat when you are from Australia.
Thanks for the generosity with passing on the links to the reference material - what I have seen so far has been enlightening and hope you will say goodbye if you do choose to leave the uni - will miss your posts.
We are heading into winter here - autumn (fall) at present but a warm one today with bushfires - fortunately not affecting where I am. A cool change coming through which is great. Hope you and Soul get some warm weather soon.
Anyway, enough chat. Cheers Jan
Paul, I hope you do renew, I realise theres probably not an awful lot we can teach you!! but I for one value your input and expertise so purely as a selfish motivation, pay your subs and stay ;-)
In defense of the wonderful weather that we get to experience here in Wisconsin, it was 70F today (but 5 days ago the high was 38F and I had 12 inches of snow in places yet) ;)
I must agree, Paul, it would not be a real nice day the day you had an elephant as a leaner...
Hey Paul - I don't think we can allow you NOT to renew!! You are too valuable to us all on forum and we love your input even if we can't reciprocate. Do hope you can stay with us!
For those of you out there in horse land who only exercise their horses once in a while: you would be well advised to watch this comparison of an exercised foot and one that is not or very seldom exercised. The differences will astound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8K184QkJAU
Thank you for the kind words, its just that I have so much to do, I will do my best. I like to think that I have made some very like minded "soul horse friends" here, it would really be nice to continue.
Jan; Here are some interesting studies conducted at UC Davis University. The impact is measured in thousands of pounds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pes-6K68u8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CStGhX6f-fc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0nBPtsGf4Y
Clarifies more precisely why slips occur so often on the turns.
Thanks again Paul - will check these out with interest and get back to you. All the best, Jan
Wow - the difference in the DC on the exercised and non exercised horse is amazing - good to see. The footage from UC Davis Uni does clarify the whole slipping issue on the turns - more interesting info - thanks again Paul. Cheers Jan
I am wondering, are light colored or white hooves softer than dark colored hooves? I have been told not, and also have been told they are, so I am a bit confused.
Read bob bowker the biomechaniical function of the hoof, and see that horses in snow, pavement, rocks, sand or water do not need shoes! Horses in the wild go for miles until they get to water, jumping thru all sorts of rocks, climbing steep terrain, going down vertiginous hills, and with no shoes. Nature knows better, they dont need our imput, it is only when we submit them to hours and days in a stable standing on their own excrements and urine. That situation butters the hoof like hot water softens womens nails when they get a manicure. Then they need shoes to hold that weakened hoof!!
The horse's weight baring structure is not the hoof wall!, its the frog, the bars and the sole which thickens with movement and low sugar nutrition.
Information is the key element to helping your horse's health, and as bob bowker says: no hoof no horse. A shod horse has hardly no circulation going to his leg, look at thermograph pictures!
There is so much to learn!!
By the way the top raid rider in the US rides a barefoot horse.
Well, just talk to anyone who owns a horse that they are using in any of the disciplines and apply common sense, based on experience, and they will very quickly tell you that it is absolutely unrealistic and harmful to not have these horses shod. I know, I have shod hundred of these and have done the pathological work on those that were worked unshod, and thousands of farriers worldwide will tell you exactly the same thing. Monty Roberts will tell you exactly the same thing. Yes barefoot is the way to go, I am a firm believer in having horses barefoot. I have one horse that has inherently weak walls and I have to put light aluminum plates on so as not to have her chipped all to hell and limping around.
Shoe your horse if it is being used in the disciplines....
Have a look at the video (youtube) of the Wyoming mustang roundup, (I forget the year). They were forced to run for approximately 10 miles. Over 30 percent went lame. Several of these horses went into shock and died within 48 hours...why? because their "hoof walls" had worn down well into living tissue and they were hemorrhaging profusely.
They were doomed anyway, once things got this bad.
Ya I know, people will say..."...but we don't run our horses to death..." I get it, I am simply making a very important and serious point here so that people will understand - you can't just rip the shoes off of any horse and set them free to go barefoot. Monty Robert's himself will confirm that for you, if you have a bias against my experienced opinion. He has already said as much in his videos.
It is an utterly false statement to say that a horse's hoof wall is not weight bearing, but rather the frog, bars and sole. One is as important as the other....and I have seen many many horses with extremely concave feet live long, healthy and very productive lives.
And their frogs, soles and bars have never made contact with the ground and their circulation has been just fine their entire lives.
Just try and use a horse to jump with or cut and box and barrel race and "slide" without shoes. Your horse will not take long before you rip the hell out of the walls...the hoof walls, not the frog, sole or bars. Why?....because the hoof walls encapsulate these "other vital" components and as well absorb at least 60% of the weight on impact. As well as facilitate turns and just "standing up" for crying out loud....just try and pick something up with one of your fingers when you lose a finger nail....its not as easy as you might think.
Feral horses don't like to jump "anything" for that matter, unless its a last recourse, generally speaking. And, feral horses don't cut cattle or box them or barrel race or run race tracks day after day after day.
I don't mean to sound nasty here, so please don't take this the wrong way, but my goodness, its such a dangerous and foolhardy thing to imply that one can just go ahead and "out of hand" take off shoes and let them go, or to use any horse for one of the disciplines without shoeing.
Monty mentioned in one of his videos, and one can very easily verify this as well; Quite a few stallions and mares from "domestic stock" were released into the wild with the mustangs, in order to improve the herds and inject some new blood. These horses were acclimated to go barefoot to varying degrees. Every single one of them died because of foot problems that they developed within weeks of being released. Ostensibly from predators or complications arising from foot problems.
I know that I speak for the vast majority of farriers out there with this response....
I wish to reiterate, that I am a very strong proponent of going barefoot, but its just not practical nor advisable for those horses used in the disciplines.
And, yes I have read and am quite familiar with Dr. Bowker's studies and work and publications. I don't disagree with him, in a "perfect" world.
Impact studies done on thoroughbreds incontrovertibly demonstrate that the impact on a horses feet/legs is measured in the thousands of pounds. The frog, bars and soles would splatter under such stress without hoof walls...as it is the hoof walls crack, chip and do break even in the mustang herds. Just check the feet of these mustangs out when they round them up. Many of their feet are far from "perfect"...more solid and a lot stronger than domestic horses, yes, but a lot are far from "perfect" is all I am saying.
OK, this is the final post for me. However, if any one has any "scientific evidence to the contrary", I will be the first to humbly apologize to one and all.
I'm only being emphatic here on behalf of "horses", they stand to end up being put through so much pain without being able to do any thing about it and without being able to convey such...
Oh Paul - well said. Please don't allow this brilliant, explicit and detailed respnse to be your last words for us. I totally share your sentiments here but there is no way I could explain it as well as you have. Yes some horses that have strong concave hooves with good walls can go barefoot and do amazingly well even on rougher ground but others - especially thoroughbreds - have flatter shaped hooves with fragile thin hoof walls and would quickly go lame in left unshod on rougher surfaces. My Uggs - quarter horse - with concave hooves and thick good walls - can go barefoot and he has rarely been shod but Nicky - thoroughbred with flat soles and very weak walls subject to seedy toe and splitting will quickly go lame if left in a paddock with a rougher surface or ridden on a gravel road unshod. Wild horses - mustangs and our Australian brumbies and whalers - survive in the wild on rough terrain because of their selective genetic breeding over many years which has meant any horses without good hooves quickly die out as Paul has pointed out above. So thanks again Paul. We need to be smart and accept that barefoot is fine for some horses but not for others!!! So if you wish to be a barefoot fan check out the shape and nature of your horse's hooves first - you may need to purchase a horse that will suit your purposes.
Well said Paul. No horse can have shoes taken off and just go barefoot - it is unreasonable to expect to do so and you have eloquently put across the reasons and the logic yet again. BTW just wanted to let you know I have taken delivery of my Klaus Ferdinand Hempfling reading and am getting so much out of it. Thanks for all your input and why would we not listen to a knowledgeable and experienced farrier who can back up what he says. Cheers Jan
Environment plays a huge factor in this too. Constant exposure to water will soften all of the foot structures, as mentioned before, but extended drought leads to very brittle hoof structures, not just limiting to the hoof walls. Soft means improper shock absorption, and brittle makes for horrendous cracking and chipping problems. It's an uphill battle year round. And Jan, you will very much enjoy Klaus's books...
Thank you, Paul, for all your insight and eloquent replies. I am keeping my fingers tightly crossed that this wasn't your last post! Your experience and knowledge is very much needed! I have learned tons from you and hope to learn more.
If this indeed is your last, than a huge THANK YOU for your time and all you have shared with us - it is deeply appreciated.
Thank you all for your answers. I have never had shoes on any of my horses, but never did anything but ride them for my own pleasure, and never had any problems, its just that my Princess is the first horse I ever had with white hooves and I was just wondering if they were softer. I will probably have he shod because we have a lot of rocks, and I am hoping to train her to be a cutting horse, which is what she was bred for.
And please don't leave, Paul. You have so much to offer.
Hey phantom; The answer to your question, by the way, sorry, totally forgot to get to that...is that there is no correlation between hoof wall strength and colour.
You people are way to kind to me...thanks.
I wish to apologize (in a way) to the Wyoming BLM, the roundup I meant to refer to was the Nevada BLM roundup.
The original footage that was extremely graphic and detailed, and I am having great difficulty finding it, but anyway, here is a very emotional partial footage taken by another individual.
It just makes any normal person cry to see this, I hate these mental midgets at the BLM. Someone should make them all run barefoot over hot pavement for 10 miles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7hovhbQBD4
My account doesn't expire till Sept.,so I'm good till then at least.
pmpleau wrote:"My account doesn't expire till Sept.,so I'm good till then at least."
Yay! I'm happy! :D :D
Ahhh Kicki, you are way too kind.... : ) Mais, merci.
Hmmm. That's an idea! Where can I find these fools at the Nevada BLM? However, I'll start them barefoot on gravel for a few miles, then to the desert pavement. Nice, fresh, black pavement across Nevada in the summer...