Katie
I had the same problem and y used some plastic bags on the end of an stick. And it worked.
Hop it works for you too.

In the ask Monty book you have more information.

She is an introvert- she will love obstacles- will trot around barrels and go all over the place trotting if it's interesting to her, especially if there's a treat in it for her. I have three horses like this.

I have the same issue with a 5 year old quarter horse. No matter what I do she just walks...sometimes trots...and almost immediately drops her nose to the ground.. I can't even chase her. I sometimes wonder if she speaks horse, but then she comes in for join up without the work part. Any suggestions?

I have said this before but I think its important. We need to stop obsessing with these poor horses who are already joined up with you!! If the horse is comfortable in your presence, is happy to be with you, does not want to be sent away, is polite and respectful in your space why on earth are you trying to "do Join Up". what else is it that you are trying to achieve - you already have it!! Enjoy it! Studio me - your horse is dropping her nose to the ground as the signal - as Monty says - to accept your leadership, i think she "speaks horse" perfectly well! OK, now I'm sorry if I sound as though I'm ranting but I do get frustrated when we miss the POINT of Join up i.e. to establish leadership and trust, it is not to teach a horse to canter. If you want to teach a horse to canter, get it on the longlines, plastic bag on a stick behind it as Mimi says, as soon as you get even ONE canter step stop waving the bag, immediately they drop to trot, flap the bag again. The horse will learn that the way to stop the scary bag is to keep going. Do short sessions with every one being successful - lots of tiny sessions that always are good initially are much better than one long session where you get some good some not so good bits. Good luck :-) Let us know how you get on

Thank you viccihh1

Ok here I am again. Tried the plastic bag thing she trotted for about 2 minutes in both directions then looked at me as if to say, again, why are we doing this those bags aren't really scary. I don't want to run /trot. Now I am not trying to achieve join up, trying to get her moving for muscle tone and exercise. Any suggestions? Btw she gave me all 4 feet today so that's huge! I have only had her 31/2 weeks from a horse auction so we have come far I think.

Hi studio, great stuff that she gave you her feet!, sounds like things are going well, but you may need to have a bit more patience :-) Were you doing this loose or on longlines? If she's already been desensitised to plastic bags etc in the past thats great for you from a safety point of view but yes, I can see not much help in moving her forward! Is there any possibility you can video this for us and put it up on youtube? Sometimes we can all help more when we can actually see whats going on. Don't worry, be patient, you will find a way!

Hi viccihh, yes great day for the feet! I feel like she really gave me a gift. Yes I'm actually glad about the bag thing. Really nothing much bothers her. The vet even said she spins out for like two seconds and then shes back. I will try to get video that may help. She's quite a character it seems...in a nice way. Even if she doesn't move forward. Good thing I'm not in a hurry right?

See also in our forum:
My horse won't move.
By:sydneycare
Date:2012-Jul-26 at 01:01AM

Hi studio-me - my sentiments here are exactly the same as Viccihh's. If your horse is this quiet and attached with you then you don't need to 'join-up'. Remember the join-up process should be used is for what it says - join-up - not for giving a horse exercise and muscle toneetc. Monty tells us not to do it more than about 6 times with any one horse.

Hi Maggie, I'm not trying to re join up, I'm trying to get her to move forward at more than an amble. I have only practiced join up 2x at the beginning. She seems "joined up " so I'm just trying to get her to move out /forward.
Rudiment thank you I will look into that.

Apologies studio_me for getting confused.

Thanks Maggie I just wanted to be clear. I am ordering the dually today! There definitely respect issues but not serious yet also looking at Walter wont move. See if I can gain more insight. Taking it all slow for her sake and mine. Seems like she was whipped or Mexican rodeod or something. Plastic bag on a stick makes her stand like a statue s little start then stone still with that look in her eye like ok hit me...not gonna happen in my yard that's for sure. I know she can go...if she feels like like a rocket shes so fast. But once she's done
..she's done so I have to gain control of her feet. I sure am learning a lot. And alot of it different than what I have learned in the last 15 years of being in the horse world and horse ownership.

Btw what are the gold ribbon thingys under your names?

The gold ribbons are an idicator of the number of lessons we have completed on the Uni.

Thanks TLS .

Good luck with it studio_me. Like you I have been around horses for many years but I am still learning so much from Monty's videos and from forum. The dually may help to encourage her to move for you and the Walter wont go forward video. When I was a kid my elder sister broke in her own horse but as she was very gang ho and enjoyed showing off she liked it to play up when visitors were around which didn't help the poor horse. It started bailing up (baulking) with her and one day a rough neighbour belted it with a stock whip while she was on it. The poor horse still didn't move just froze there taking it all- perhaps this is what has happened to your mare in her past. My Pie who was brutalised by a guy before I had her also used to bale up when I first rode her out on the roads - not a good feeling. I used to just sit there until she was ready to move - it sometimes took hours so I am not much help with your problem. Pie overcame her bailing up problems as she grew to trust me more and she ended up being the eagerest horse I have ever had to ride on an outward journey. Initially I allowed her to stop for awhile when she saw other horses and this seemed to make her happier to go out in the future.

Thanks Maggie. Yep that's my impression, she stands there and waits for me to hit her. I see her go away in her head. Then she comes back like ...nothing bad happened to me??? She just looks at me. Although she will go a little bonkers in her stall and act marish and crazy. Then its all over. I'm just gonna stay off her tip the ground work is farther along then have a younger trainer whom I know very well see whet she knows under saddle. I only got to see her briefly under saddle and bareback at the auction. She seemed sound and willing even in that hellish place. That's why I brought her home. You are in Wisconsin yes? What part?

Jus to add my two cents worth, being a Percheron she is a cold blooded breed. I'm no expert, but having owned both cold and hot blooded horses they do often react very differently, although there are exceptions to the rule. My hot blooded anglo arab would flee almost just from a look, and yet my native british pony mare would barely break into a trot even if there were fireworks going off. They are all different, and just as people react to stress and external stimuli in different ways, join up with each horse will not be the same.

Hey everyone. So I got the dually halter fitted it on Lily worked a bit on the sweet spot and backing up did pretty well. Then tried to jog forward weeeelll she walked really fast. No trot tried and tried no go. I'm gonna have to duplicate me and run with her and chase her from behind I guess. On the positive side she let me put a baby pad on her from both sides and set a saddle on her. A bit tense and flinched once but stood and dd it. I think she was frozen she is learning that I'm not going to hurt her. She is a good girl that's for sure. Funny thing was ss I was trying to get her to trot Ginger was whinnying ss if to cheer her on as I tried to run with her. It was really funny.

Hi studio - sounds as if you are making good progress, slowly but surely. One little tip though, if you are running with her, dont chase her from behind yourself - have a look at Montys video re: leading - chasing from behind interferes with their natural gait, causes them to crab sideways etc. You can however, get some help from a friend to encourage her forwards while you are trotting with her. Also, remember not to look back at her other wise you can confuse her, your eyes say go away and your hands say come here! Keep working with the Dually to bring her up to you off the pressure and make sure your release timing is impeccable. Good luck.

Thanks Maggie, yeah I was kidding about me chasing her I only meant I needed to be in two spots at the same time, lacking anyone to help. And thanks for the not looking back tip. Definitely will keep at it. At least she doesn't pull back, she comes with me...at the walk. You should see her face, sometimes it's so funny as if she's saying do we really need to do all this? You could just pet me you know. Well here goes another day at it weather permitting. Have a great one. Will be back with updates. Thank you again.
Paula

Watched the video again, Monty looks back, and even runs backward...but the horse stops and pulls back and then comes up off the halter, Lily just walks forward with her head up. Gonna try again

Well still no trot but I will get some help to urge her fwd. I'm really in no hurry so we can go slow. She at least let me put a baby pad on her and set a saddle on her so that's good progress. If she just wants to walk along with me for now then ok..it just doesn't seem normal for a horse especially a young one.

I now have some break through info. My daughter came yesterday and took Lily into the round pen to see what she knows. She is smart, and sensible and thinks she is in charge. In 5 minutes my daughter had her moving away from her space, and trotting in a circle, both sides and then even a canter. Lily resisted with bucks and rearing, however as this is my daughter's profession, she took it in stride. No violence or force was used, just pressure. She showed me how to work with Lily and then went on her way. Lily did really well. Today, as I did just what we worked on yesterday, I have come to believe that Join up has not been reached, nor is there respect. Lily pinned her ears and bucked in my direction, not kicking out but still a bit unsettling, leading me to believe that a trainer on site is a safety must. At least I know, now how to get her to move forward! So still progress, and now to get her to move out enough to achieve true join-up. I'm glad she's a sweet horse. I have contacted a local trainer to work with me, and I will be clear as to the methods that will be used. He seems amenable. Since I have already done a lot of stuff with Lily, hopefully he can help me gain confidence.
Cheers all

Great your daughter helped out and good luck with the trainer. If you are not happy with how he is working with Lily be brave enough to tell him to leave. Maybe your daughter can help you further? Keep us posted.

Thanks Maggie. Yeah I'm not shy about telling trainers no thank s unfortunately my daughter lives 5 hours away or she would be my trainer, she's magical with horses.)

A pity your daughter lives so far away. Now that she has worked with Lily she maybe able to just keep you going re tips on e-mails etc. I would be a bit worried about having a trainer for Lily given her background unless he knows and uses Monty's methods. Now you have the dually and she is leading OK at walk I am sure it wont be long before she understands the trot command. Every horse is so different so the more videos you watch with Monty or Kelly Marks working with abused or scared horses the better. Have you checked out all the excellent free videos with Monty and kelly Marks on 'horse and country tv.' UK the horsemanship essentials series? If not do a forum search as I have previously listed them all after watching them myself with a brief comment on each which may help you reduce your watching. However they are all great and all have something to add to our understanding of horses.

I wish she were closer, however the trainer I spoke to was referred by my vet asst. And as he will be at my home, before he does anything with Lily the ground rules will be clear. I will look into the videos I don't get H and C Tv but I'll look it up on line thank you. I definitely will be careful with her training as I don't want the trainer to train her but to work with me to give her direction. I just know that if I'm nervous so will she be, so help I will need to be effective.

I learned the hard way, make sure that you stand your ground with whatever trainer you have. Something else to consider, try to see the trainer working with another horse or at least talk to them before they are standing in your yard. It will help your nerves more than you can believe.

Yup did that! Im not unfamiliar with trainers so I will be clear on what. I want to work on. He's only coming for evaluation consult to begin with.

Well, she's not passive anymore. Turned out she just didn't know what I wanted, and I wasn't clear. Keeping on trying. Btw it turns out that the trainer I contacted is the one who originally trained my first mare Lyka., and until now she was the love of my horsie life. Small world, he doesn't use Montys techniques more Mark Rashid. Still non violent no pain so I can combine the two. Thanks for all the support.

Great to hear! :D

I feel like you are contradicting yourself and confusing the horse by waving plastic bags at the horse in order for it to move. Especially, if you have worked on desensitizing your horse to plastic bags so that the horse stands still and then you take the bag away. Now you want the horse to move with plastic bags? Something to think about, don't you think?