Hi Christina,

I tried both parts, but I can't get them, open them.... not found!!
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Maybe somebody can open them and help you.
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Good luck,
May.

Hi Christina,
at first, I can open the files.
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At the beginning I was a little confused about how you introduced the roundpen to your mare. And she seemed to be confused as well.
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How to make it better: Walk into the middle of the pen and move your horse in s very small circle clockwise. Stop in each direction, step in front of the horse and give her a rub.
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Sending away: After introducing her to the roundpen, start sending her away. But start sending her away in a moment of time when she is NOT focussed on you, otherwise it is like a punish for her.
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Changing directions: In the first video you let her change the direction when SHE choosed to. Do NEVER do so! In that moment SHE is controlling YOU, and YOU want to controll HER when doing Join-Up, YOU are the leader! So when she changes the direction on her own, be quick and change it back again.
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STOP saying "chchch" to make her go faster. It sounds like a snake and won't let her trust you. Use a long line and pure body language instead!
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Stop the dogs from barking, it is confusing and will let your horse be focussed on them instead to be focussed on YOU!
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Video 2: Stop the line from swinging around as she is walking slower and in a smaller circle and putting her head down. Stop putting pressure on her, that's like a punish for bad behaviour! And stop letting her trott, let her walk.
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Inviting: Too much movement on your side. Inviting means stopping slightly in front of her facing the middle of the pen in a 45 degree angle to her face. When she's not interested, start putting a little bit pressure on her by turning around and looking her in the eye again. When she looks at you again be quick to reward her by turning away and waiting a moment. Still you have to be able to see her out of the corner of one eye.
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Do so several times when she is looking away over and over again, the start the arcing in small circles: Cross her body axis several times in a slight curve toward her (do NOT look her in the eye as it means: "Stay away").
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If all of this does not work touch her nose and walk away again. She should wear a halter as it makes it easier, because if touching her nose does not work to get Join-Up, you can lead her for one or two steps with a hand on the halter. Then walk two more steps without holding her. If she walks even only one step, you achieved Join-Up.
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Where has the licking and chewing been? I did not see it. Or did I just not notice it? And at the time of 08:10 in the second video, why are you sending her around your rope? Why and for what are you punishing her?
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In Video 2, at the time of 04:30 you GOT JOIN-UP! You just did not notice! Look how she follow to the middle of the pen! You just went to far instead of rewarding her. She can't understand this and that's why shy does not follow!
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And whe rubbing her face afterwards, STOP looking her in the eye and stop moving your hands up so quick! It's frightening her and that's why she is bumping up her head so often!
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I would also recommend you to watch the videos on doing Join-Up again.
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Sorry for the long and very critical text (hope not too critical?), but I hope it helps. I am just learning all these things on my own for my Introductory exam (just did the course last month with a trainer here in Germany). I can tell you, it's not as easy as it seems when watching Monty! Good luck and tell us how you are progressing!
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Best wishes from Hamburg, Germany,
Jasmin

Very very true Jasmin,
I have been watching horseandcountry.tv and the series of Monty and Kelly.
There is one where Kelly is doing join-up with a difficult horse and Monty had to suggest to Kelly how to improve.
When she did it exactly as Monty suggested it worked, right away.
It was something just simple, the placement of her body in reference to the horse.
The best thing you have done, Christina, is to use your video camera.
You can now compare your join-up to Montys and see the difference and correct yourself.
You may have to view them both several times to see the subtle differences but with a close eye you'll see.
I did this and it worked for me.
Keep up the good work,
Ronda

renjaho Thank you thanks you thanks you... Your words are not harch they are helpful. I now understand that it went wrong from the start. I will try it again tomorrow.
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As for the dogs, we also run a dog kennel at the same property. And we have 5 dogs right now so I cant get the dogs to stop sorry.
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I never know that clicking was a bad thing. but I will not do that next time.
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Thanks again.

christenarosehorses
Everyone has given you great tips and I agree with all of them.
1. You need to be quieter and drive your horse from his shoulder. That will keep him from changing directions.
2. It looks like you are doing a join up in the horses paddock. If so that is a bis strike against you. You are sending him away in is own house. That is his territory and you just invaded it trying to train him. IF that is the only place that you can do a join up, then clear everything out of the paddock. You don't want water bucket or any other item in the area.
3. You absolutely need to get the dogs somewhere else so they are not barking. Even though your horse does not seem to be reacting to the barking, trust me he is distracted by it and is not concentrating on you. If you don't keep the dogs out of it you have another struck against you doing a successful join up.
4. When sending the horse away don't wave your arm, but show him a raised arm and open claw like hand. The less you move your body the better. If you watch Monty he just flicks the lead line at the horse. It is a quite move.

I am glad you did not listen to your "trainers". Your horses size has nothing to do with their abilities. Some of the most elegant and graceful horses are the old war horses like the Percheron and all the Dutch warmblood. Keep at it and I am sure you will get a good join up. Just make sure you feel relaxed and not expecting to succeed. Once you are relaxed and have the process in your mind, it will be quite easy for you. As a matter of fact, time may low down for you!

Cheers

Hi Christena, i too have just watched the video's and agree with the advice given. I agree that her size should have no bearing against her..and she is beautiful might i add! I love chestnuts! My last horse was taller than me and could be quite volatile at times but equus worked wonders for us :-) So good on you for giving her a go!
What i will add to all the other advice is that you really need to makes all your movements more fluid and especially near her face you need to slow it down a lot. I have recently bought a brumby, Australia's equivalent to a mustang. He is unhandled so i am learning very quickly the value of slow fluid movements. I suggest you watch the video's on here about catching your horse and lisen to what Monty says about how you need to move like you are in sticky oil! I am sure once you watch yourself on your vids you will be able to see all this and make your adjustments.
I wish you all the best for a successful join up!
Janelle

Round two. Here is my secont time working with her. Againa I think i did everything right this time. One small thing. how do i slow her down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ15uo6b-xo

Just some general reflections and thoughts.

Before I start any kind of training with the horse, I would reflect about a few aspects :

Do the horse and I want the same ?
What do I desire and expect from the horse and WHY ?
If I were a horse, what would I expect from the person in front of me ?
Are the expectations compatible ?
Does the horse want to be with me or rather far be away from me ?
How can I awake the desire in the horse to be with me ?
Am I able to read the finest signs of his body ?
Am I able to react accordingly without creating misunderstandings between us ?
Am I humble and sensible enough to discover, respect and accept his personality?
Do I have the patients to let the horse take the time to learn and understand me ?

For me these questions are very important. Without considering this points, it is like being in a foreign country without considering their culture and different language. It is like colonialism and slavery.

Hi Christena,
I just watched your latest video on join-up.
You did pretty good.
If I might make a suggestion. When you put her in the round pen make sure there is nothing else in there, such as buckets.
This seems to be causing distraction. When you view your video you will notice she speeds up when she comes near these objects. Try removing these next time. OK.
Sometimes even a jacket put on the post can cause them to be afraid so we have to be aware of their surroundings.
Another thing I noticed, your shoulders are not kept square to her at all times, try that.
Keep behind her drive line and eventually even the slightest movement from you will clue her in as to what you want her to do.
When she came to you I noticed you put the lead line on her immediately not allowing her to make the choice to follow you, this part is very important in join-up.
Also, you were playing with her mouth and if you watch her body language, she was not comfortable with this yet.
Be patient, all of that will come once you get a real good join-up/follow-up with her.
May I ask you a question, was she single line lunged before?
The reason I ask is, she has her head facing towards the fence while running the circle and her backend is not in alignment with the rest of her body.
If this is so she may be in pain because her spine may be sore.
I've saved your video on my site and am going to view it again.
I'll take special notice of the slowing down for you.
You have a good day,
Ronda

Hi Christena again.
I watched your video again.
Were you doing join-up with her or massage?
There are four things your horse has to do before you can train them.
1. join-up/follow-up, a good one
2. lead properly
3. stand still, no matter what
4. back-up properly
Without these four elements your horse will not be learning, nor will she want to stay with you.
When there are too many distractions during training they cannot concentrate.
If you are going to have spectators have them watch from a distance, including the person who is doing the video.
They can use the zoom mode if needed.
Watch Montys' videos again and you will see what I mean.
He has all of these on the UNI.
Ronda

Thanks very much for all that info. We are working on moving the buckets out of the round pen. I thought I put the lean on to quick. The person recording this has watched the videos. I will tell them to back up next time. And the other spectator I had that day as the owner of the horse. This was her first time watching me work with her horse. She has always been lunged. The previouse trainer would lunge her for over an hour but no tack and under tack. I am at the point of trying to undo all that damage. As for her mouth. She has always had a bit on WAY to tight so she will no longer let people toutch her mouth and lips. That day I was just seeing how far will she let me go and also I was seeing were is her limit of me messing with her.

Hi Christena,
Jasmin here again. I'm just starting to watch your newest video step by step and stopping and repeating scenes over and over again to give you the best advices I can.
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At the beginning I have to say that it is a good idea to lead her out and in again. Well done! I can only agree with Ronda on her point about the distractability of horses: It seems to me that the dogs got more quiet, but your spectators should be quiet. I know that problem, sometimes it's not easy to talk when you are asked to, but it is way harder not to talk when you are asked to be quiet!
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Then to you introducing her to the roundpen: When rubbing her between the eyes you should step DIRECTLY in front of her. Maybe it would help if you ask yourself if she would be able to run you over in that moment if she wanted to: Then you are in the right position, but please, do not let her run over you! ;-)
I don't know if it is only my perspective, but when itroducing her you are now going in a smaller circle, but it confuses me. From my perspective it looks like: East, North, South, West. For me as a horse it would be better to understand like this: North, East, South, West, North again (Monty repeats the first position).
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Sending away was better, but for me it seemed like you sent her immediately. She did not seem to be distracted. Another point is your own safety. Before starting to send her away step out of her kick zone. She could easily have kicked you, and that hurts a lot! And: Like Ronda said before, stay in the driving zone with your shoulders square to her body axis.
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Back to the original direction: At this point in time put less pressure on her. Keep her walking by using eye on eye and your shoulders square to her body axis, but stop swinging the rope. Let her relax and feel more safe. Now you can even slow her down by slowing down yourself: Walk slower, move as if the heavy oil around you got even more heavy. If this does not work for this horse as every horse is different step a little bit in front of her shoulder as if you wanted her to make a turn, but way slower.
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Why did you turn her again? She already wanted to be with you rather than to be far away! You GOT Join-Up, great job! In that moment you should step into the same position again to rub her, think of the running over thing. It reminds me every time!
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Right, you should not have clipped the line on her without doing Follow-Up and you should not have played with her mouth, but I am just repeating what others said before. She really shows you that she does not like it and is not happy about it. But for showing her that it is not such a bad thing to be touched there later you could watch Monty's Video about Abbygail. She is one of the poor horses that got really head- and extremely mouthshy. You can find it in the Centaur Series. But don't do this from another horse. That is something you really have to learn with a trainer, and Latte is not that bad on that point.
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Don't move that fast! You are way to fast and frightening her one time when rubbing her ear. That's why she moved her head up so fast.
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Long-lining: For better long-lining you should use two lines. Watch Monty's videos on how to use the double long lines.
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All in all: WAY better than the last time! Keep going this way!
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Best wishes from Hamburg, Germany
Jasmin

Hi Christena, I too watched the second join-up attempt and agree with the others that it was a great improvement on the first! You had join-up much faster than the first. If you follow the advice of the others concerning the placement of your body, removal of the feed bins from the yard and any other distractions i am sure you'll have it down pat...(that means perfect!...sorry aussie slang!) I also agree to maybe leave her mouth alonr until you have a better join-up and do you have a dually halter? If not i know that would make desensitizing her mouth easier.
Good luck!....can't wait to see the next video!
Janelle

Thanks agian. On the long-lining. I did not want to long line her. I was simply trying to drop the rope over her rump to see how she would react to that. She started long-lining on her own. I dont like doin one line. I always use 2 lines with a sercingle(sp?). My next video will be with out the feed and water buckets in the pen.
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I still have trouble with the orentation. I always for get the pattern and I keep doing a small cercal. I always do South, east, west then north. and back to south. I will change that next time. I was also out of the kick zone untel she turned on me.
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Quick question what do I do if she does not follow up with me?

At first I have to say that you should never expect her to have a tendency not to follow-up willingly on her own. When doing so you are no more completely confident and she won't follow, because her thought might be like "Oh, she is not completely confident. Maybe she might lead me into danger and is therefore not the best leader!".
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But, if you ARE confident and she does NOT want to follow, cross over her body axis a few times doing the arcing again. If she does her first step to Follow-Up, stop, reward her staying directly in front of her and rubbing her forehead, and then just turn and walk. In most cases the horse will follow.
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If the arcing does not help, arc to her face, give her a rub and lead her for two steps on the halter. Then walk on without leading her. Stop after the first circle (to the right), give her a rub and go over to the other circle (to the left). If she does not follow on her own choice, lead her for two to three steps again and then walk on alone again.
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Next time she will surely follow on her own choice.
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Very important when doing Follow-Up: Do not swing the line in your hand too much.
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Good luck and best wishes,
Jasmin
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P. S. Actually, am I the only one here writing such long comments? ;-)

Christena,
When you have a solid join-up with a horse the follow-up will come.
Watch for the signals the horse is sending you. Pay close attention to their body language in whatever training you are doing.
Example: Where are the ears?
How are they holding their tail?
Their feet, are they braced?
Is their back tense?
Are their nostrils flared, opened and flexing?
These are all signs that the horse is not comfortable and nervous.
If they express any of these signs, stop what you doing and go back to where they are comfortable.
When we let any lines hang loose around a horse they may see this as a snake and their ears or head will flex, showing you they are nervous.
Next time you work with any horse pay complete attention to what you are doing in every way.
If spectators have questions have them ask after you are finished.
Monty is able to talk while training because he is an expert and it is second nature to him.
The rest of us need to learn so much and we learn best from our teachers, the horse.
So watch their body language, you will learn so much from them.
Try all of the above suggestions and you will get follow-up.
Think positive,
Ronda

really helpful especially the really long comments.

We've got a youngster, 23 months, he wasn't gelded when we got him, hadn't had his feet done, hardly been touched. Been hand fed bread and junk by 2previous owners.
Weve had him gelded, but he won't join up. we don't have very good facilities as we're just starting out, so no round pen and the school that was sand is now grass. we've also got a young girl at the yard who doesn't like change so making a round pen is an issue.

BamBam still has strong stallion stubbornness and joining up is not quite working. I'll take to note all the comments above.

Mel
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Hi Mel.
On one of the join-up videos Monty says, a women told him my horse will not join-up with me. He asked, do you think it would with me. She said yes. He said look in the mirror it is something you are doing wrong.
All horses understand equus we have to learn the language.
Don't get discouraged, keep watching, video yourself and compare it with Monty's see how you do.
Remember a round pen is not always needed, communication is.
You will get it, I promise.
Have a great day
Ronda

Thanks Ronda, I'm managing to connect with the two other horses at the yard, although the owner won't let me join up with them. I've done training in the field and when BamBam won't listen to my body language,I only have to give a slight glance past the others then back to BamBam and they move him on where I want him to go. One time BamBam decided he was going to totally ignore me and galloped across the field, both of the 2 other horses took off after him and brought him back to me , it was amazing to watch as they herded him back to where I was training with him, then they left a large gap for me to approach whilst they stood either side of him.
I'm very much an eye person, it's quite something when you can see the different expressions in the horses eyes.
The big horse (gelding) today wanted to come onto the yard whist I groomed BamBam, it looked like he was going to barge through the gate, so using Equuus, i communicated not to come any further, he stopped and turned and only when he'd gone far enough away did I loose the eye contact and he went back to grazing.

My daughter was in the field with them all, yesterday again, she's 12, BamBam started to get a bit pushed with her and the older gelding cantered over bit him on the rump and moved him away from my daughter.

Fascinating just being with them, I wish I could do all the courses, but that's a long way off for now. I'll keep learning and apply what's here in the university :D

The mare of the other owner is really moody so much so that when it's time for the farrier, even he has had problems with her rearing up. This time the owner wasn't there so I used Equus to communicate to relax and that everything was find, she was brilliant until I lost concentration and looked into her eyes, she just reared. I realised what I'd done and took my eyes back down to her feet and stood in an accepting way with my fingers closed and to my body and she stopped immediately. Both the young lad that was holding her and the farrier said that the best she's ever been and wished she'd be like it all the time.

I did notice when trying to join up at the weekend that my body was not square to his side, so will try and work on that.

thanks again for your help.

Mel x