I was shocked when Monty said that he wouldn't let his daughter get near that horse! That was really unexpected. I wonder if somebody had abused Fergus long before that girl got to know him...
I also have problem with puls rate, I've learned to bring it up in a second when I want to, but I am still slow when it comes to bringing it down. Also, I find myself being better and better if I practise often and think about what am I doing. Now, being at university and no round pen in 200km radius (probably), I am loosing the feeling, but I hope to regain it this summer. I would say practise, practise, practise (until you can't get it wrong ;) ).

I was going to watch that tomorrow... must go to bed now but you've got my curiosity going lol....

Night x

I have owned a quarter horse kind of in a way like Fergus. You can ride him. Something he would spook at. But I noticed a few things about him that just didn't add up. Then one day after tacking him up, I forgot to get my helmet from the tack room. So I let him loose in the round pen just for min with the saddle and halter on. and he became a bucking horse. I could not believe it. I called a old cowboy friend of mine that brakes horses to come take a look. And he did just that. He looked at me and asked if I was riding him and I said yes. He said STOP. Don't ride him again. Coming to find out my horse was barely green broke. After training him he became the best horse ever. Scary thing was. The person I bought him from said he was a kid/beginner rider friendly horse. I see my horse so much in this one...

Wow Christena, so glad you hadn't had a younger rider on him.
Think that is interesting a horse does everything he's told to do as he knows if he doesn't he's in trouble, yet give him the freedom of choice and he will tell you if he's not happy.

Yes, there are a lot of unscrupulous people that sell only just backed horses to complete novices!!!
Watch advert wording; for instance, a friend of mine (i didn't know her at the time) had only been riding a few months, she couldn't even canter - this person sold her a Welsh section D "gelding", the advert said can be strong cross country - that meant - HE BOLTED FOR HOME ON HACKS!!!!!
He had also only just been gelded at 6 years old, so a late cut horse to add to the mix, he'd been used as a stallion, had plenty of issues, was scared of men in green wax coats.....................

It seems that buying a horse is a perilous exercise no matter what country you are in! Interesting about your quarter horse Christena mine who is now 16 years old would probably still turn into a buck jumper if I turned him loose with his saddle. He used to buck like crazy on the lunge but was then OK to ride so I gave up lunging him. These days he lunges OK but hates the long lines.

Now I am going to check out the lesson with Fergus as it sounds fascinating. I think most of us will have a slightly higher pulse rate when we are dealing with a scary horse - just good natural instinct as long as it doesn't take over and make us dysfunctional.

Wow! Thanks Vicci for alerting me to this series. Couldn't pause until I had watched the whole three and can't wait for the next one. Yes Monty was amazing how he stayed so calm especially given that this bucking fit was completely unexpected. I would have been shaking like a leaf! This horse does remind me of my Uggs who can buck like this too when something sets him off. I was told to circle him when he starts to buck but like this horse he can buck in a circle no problem so I always come off. Fortunately I have always been able to get back on him and then he is usually fine although I am very nervous. Usually means I don't ride him for awhile which is probably the worst thing I can do. We have both suffered from injuries too which has kept me off him for months at a time. Currently I am riding him once a week as he has been good for some time now - I am hoping he is growing out of it but I know that is unlikely. He no longer bucks in his saddle when I lunge him but I am sure he would if he was let loose with his saddle on. I know I should try but he gets so spooked I am fearful of another injury for him and my ménage is not really safe. Should have had an experienced person re-train him when he first started his bucking fits but that was impossible at the time. Since then he and I both had injuries and as I was working full time the years just rolled by. Done the plastic bags, tarp etc things but after watching these videos realise that I haven't even done that often enough so off I go now to catch him and have a remedial session in his old age - now 16!

I wondered what you were talking about at first Vicci, it seems i get the lessons days after you as i've only just been able to watch that one, boy he goes some doesn't he!!!
I think Monty is the most amazing man ever, that would have been very scary with a horse you don't know!!
My mare will leap, rear & buck if she's loose in a pen BUT she isn't trying to get me, so i'm not scared of her as i know her, however, as a baby, i would not have said the same thing!!!
THe worst bucker i ever sat on was an old JA pony, the owner said have a jump round on him, i tacked him up, tried to make friends with him before i got on, he gave a big huff, not too friendly, i got on, warming him up & he went into a rodeo act a bit like ~Fergus with the spinning round at the same time. I was ok at that point - he was livid that i was still on, so goes off again until he just lifted my seat out of the saddle a tiny bit, then put in a huge buck to get me off, i held onto the reins & got up holding him, the owner thought i was going to hit him & very scared yelled don't hit him he'll kill you! Nice, then he opened his mouth & tried to charge me! needless to say, that was the end of that thank you very much. Shortly after, he was put down, he was old, but i think he must have developed neurological problems to have behaved as badly as that,his owner was very upset by it even though he'd always been difficult.

Interesting Beryl that the owner thought you were going to hit him, I wonder what she saw from your body language. Shows as well she knows that he's been hit before too!

Fancy the owner telling you to ride him!

The owner was a man who many decades ago worked at Billy Smart's circus, he rode trick horses, broke dog acts - he said he broke one dog act in one night - "they were never any good" he says!!!!! Can't imaging why.
His son's used to ride the pony show jumping, he often used to dump them in the collecting ring & gallop back to put himself in the trailer if they weren't paying attention to him!
He also said he used to take 1/2 a scaffold pole with him & stand outside the ring with it to donk it on the ground to make a noise, obviously some form of violence used to make him jump higher or whatever.
He wasn't a nice cuddly pony by any means, but he'd not done that with the young girl who'd been riding him at that time.
He must either have been in some pain or his brain had gone.
In fairness, te owner was shocked at his behaviour & as i said before, he was put down not long after that, I can't remember if he was ridden again after that incident, it's too many lifetimes ago to remember all the details.

Just watched Fergus the bucking episode again! It is just amazing how Monty does keep that adrenalin down once this horse starts bucking - so unexpected too. I would say the lady who rides him had been incredibly lucky so far as this bucking is definitely habitual. Can't help laughing when I watch this as Monty's comments are so precious. Hope everyone else enjoys it as much as I did. Logged on to see the next episode so after to-morrow it should be on.

Oh My! I have experienced some of this stuff before. Amazing how fast that horse kicked when it was by the pallet. Reminded me how Joey has shown us with what precession a horse can kick just to get his point across. . Worked through the striking at the bag with Joey. The Long Lines setting Fergus off was so like what Joey had done. Al and I sat here and talked about Monty saying the same thing the Vet said to us about Joey.
Working through all Joey's issues on a regular basis just made it seem like we conquered that issue now on to the next. Not even thinking about how he would do all these same things over again with strangers. Making Joey unsafe in public.
Amazing how a Big Love Bug can change in a blink of an eye when he is fed up with the new pressures.

Amberpony, you are so right about how accurate they can be when they kick!
I use electric fence posts to mark out my dressage arena, winter before last, my mare kicked out with both legs, smashed the square marker tied at the top of the post with one foot & took a lump out of the post with the other, the post is about 1" wide - i found lumps of both across the other side of the school,so 20 mtrs away!!

Yes, I guess they need to be accurate to get the dogs head or that of any other predator.

indeed, my little 11hh welsh pony used to gallop after any dog that came into out field, snaking her face at them & trying to paddle their heads with her front feet - i didn't have a dog problem then!!!!! Ha Ha Ha.

It was totally amazing that the owner did not end up in the hospital, it really looks like this horse had been trained how to buck in a rodeo or something.

Having just watched this weeks lesson, What's next Fergus , Do any of you get the feeling that this behaviour may well be why he's been left "just to be a horse" until he was 12 years old?
Quite possible the work of another "Expert" who didn't have the knowledge to start him.

I haven't watched the Fergus lessons yet, gotta get credit for dongle, phone is too slow to watch any lessons, but from the comment from Beryl sounds a bit like mime was! Although that was also alot to do with being the only person in the house who could drive, and mum being terminally ill, Himself would go ballistic & try to get me off just outside the gate, yes it frightened me and it took me a year after mum passed to get on him again! Now he seems to know I don't care anymore what he does, so now it's all for show, the look on people's faces when he plays is amusing! But it was still terrifying for a fair while to begin with!

I agree Beryl; sadly an all too common story...horse gets passed around because noone can cope with it...gets badly treated...sold off at a bargain price...later we find out why etc etc. It's a sad and potentially dangerous story.

I spent sometime trying to see what set Fergus off (Fergus' Surprise [6]). At 3:33 the young lad ducked under Fergus. Between 3:33 and 3.35 he stood up quickly, then turned and squaring off at Fergus' drive line. At 3:36 the lad looked Fergus right in the eyes. During the next 3 or four frames within 3:36, Fergus steps to his left at the exact speed and timing as the lad steps back with his left foot. Fergus' left ear is locked on and the lad is still looking Fergus right in the eyes. At 3:37 the lad pivots on his left to move forward with his right foot. Fergus, still being locked on, steps forward with his with his right foot in perfect timing. Mr. Roberts is doing the diaphragm demonstration not moving a muscle. Well he does flex the wrist of his right hand. But you get the point. Anyway, If you watch frame by frame, you will see Fergus' right hoof step down exactly at the same time as the young man. By 3:38 the lad is standing up right (albeit hands down and head looking at Mr. Roberts) with his legs spread wide apart. In short the young man unwittingly told Fergus to go away (well so I say). So Fergus did and right into Mr. Roberts. At the exact moment Mr. Roberts breaths out (still in 3:38 time frames), Fergus locked onto Mr. Roberts. In mid sentence, as Mr. Roberts is saying, “...and your...”, Fergus rears up. Then Mr. Roberts in a reflexive movement, lifts up his right arm with fingers spread wide apart as to also say, “GO AWAY”. So Fergus goes away in a right hand circle just like it were the beginning of a Join-Up. But low and be hold, when Fergus spins around to go away... the lad is standing right there. And around and around, Fergus goes away.

Sorry Greg, i don't agree, Fergus reacted to the lines touching him when he moved, he may have gone to walk to the young lad, but his reaction was caused by the line touching him - very dangerous! this horse has in no way been trained to cope with the feel of lines touching him nor is he able to deal with it which is what sent him spinning. This is a very dangerous situation.
I have let all the horses, ponies that i've started or worked with have time with the lines on the ground for them to get used to having them follow them & to deal with working out how to release themselves from pressure when they tread on them. They get a sharp dob in the nose that stops them, they very quickly work out that they can step back, lift the foot off the line & free themselves. As far as I'm concerned, this is a vital part of training, but you only do it once you have a relaxed horse & a trusting bond or you'll get the reaction shown by Fergus at it's worst.
No one has done the work this horse needs!
Vicci, you are so right, they do get passed on & on all because no one meets the horses needs.
We are responsible for their lives, if we make a mistake, it's our responsibility to correct it!
I feel the same way about selling on older horses just because we want a young one, If we enjoy them & give them a good life when young & they give us all they've got, we are duty bound to give them a good death too, not sell them on cos they are now boring to us.

I've done a screen grab of that part of the video and slowed it down, it's the latter part where the man is leaving that sets him off and quite right Greg with monty blocking the horse where he was standing the horse had no choice.
/
Just a little point, not once did the man thank the horse for standing still whilst he put the equipment on him. :(
/
As the man finishes the horse as Greg says you can see the horse lock on and move with the man just before the man goes off screen he then turns around in a manner that to a horse would be another horse preparing to kick, so Fergus took the mans initial gesture to follow him, but then was surprised to see the man turning as if (in his mind) he was going to kick. At that point fergus went into flight only to find monty still standing there, you'll notice from the fergus' facial expression he was trying to avoid monty, he was most probably surprised too that monty didn't move when the man turned his back (to kick) In avoiding monty he had to pull back with his front end which was when monty realised something was not right and as Greg said monty's hand went up but I wouldn't say as in sending him away, in slow motion it looks like monty is going to hit the horse - looking from the horses point of view. You'll notice also that monty still has hold on the line so the dually goes into effect when it reaches that pressure point and would have tried to have turned fergus to the left even though he was bucking right. From that point you just had a confused horse and his only release was to buck like crazy, as no-one goes close to a crazy bucking horse!
/
Though it was an excellent example that everything we do with our bodies is sending a message to the horse and something as simple as turning your back on the horse at the wrong time is interpreted into horse language.
/
I've added the slow motion to youtube for everyone to see.
/
http://youtu.be/4EHS8dWUECc

An additional point, for the horse to react this badly he knows what it is to be be hit by a human most probably many times and his only release is to buck like crazy to stay safe.

Thanks all for taking the time to analyse this. So great what we can pick up in slow motion. Tend to agree that this horse has been sold on numerous times with no attempt before this to try to solve his problems. Looking forward to watching the new episode but it will have to wait until to- morrow as my iPad won't show the videos. Like you Beryl - my horses stay with me until it's time for them to pass on to a better world.

looms like Beryl and I posted at the same time. :-)
Same as you Maggie, our horses are for life.
have a great weekend !
X

The sensitivity he feels to the lines touching his back legs I would bet money on is lunge whip damage, equally the front strike can be the result of lunge whip strikes.

Ah, see what you mean now - i stand corrected, thanks for putting that on You tube Mel

Greg / Mel, how do you watch the videos frame by frame & / or slow them down????
please share, that is such an awesome learning tool!

Yes please share!!! After reading Greg & Mels comments about watching it in slow mo I have just watched it & was waiting for that particular part & your right, the young lad does look Fergus in the eye. Probably in a "normal" horse this wouldn't have sparked such a violent reaction, just goes to show how individual horses are! I wouldn't have gone near it, mine will bronc but the head, neck & backside disappear but he only basically bounces on the spot, looks impressive & makes me look like a better rider than I probably am!! They all have the potential to do this fortunately most don't, poor horse I am left wondering what happened in his previous home/homes?? I can't wait for the next lessons!

I am so intrigued to watch this but I can't seem to find the full videos , only the taster you tube video on Monty''s blog-help!

Hope you're ll having a good weekend.
I use a video screen capture program to record part of the videos being played then use windows movie player to slow everything down.
I do the same thing when I'm recording horses I work with especially when we take our eyes away from the horse, we don't always see their reaction to things, recording it and watching it back in slow mo it a valuable tool for our learning.

Xx

Widgymaphlip did you manage to find the video. Seems we posted at the same time so I didn't see you message before.
X

I have just found the videos and watched them- wow! But the last 2mins wouldn't play could you fill me in please!

Which video did you manage to watch that didn't show then end?

It was the last one I think, he'd just got the rider on and going round with the flag and it was going ok.

Just watched the last video. What an achievement Monty had with this horse but what a long way still to go. You can see how tense he still is - a bomb ready to explode but what a difference the sessions made. Loved this series.

I love when Fergus tries so hard to accept the plastic on a stick. I had a similar experience recently with a lovely bay warm-blood named Remmi. He looked at it but tried so hard to trust me and let it touch him. Made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside